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Thread: For The First Time Ever, The "1%" Own More Than Half The World's Wealth

  1. #31

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    The problem is taxes on the lower and middle 'classes', the rich will increase their wealth regardless of taxation since they have the assets to do so (This is not to argue that taxing the rich is a good thing) We make the joke that in the Netherlands we have the richest poor people in the world. That's because there is a lot of money shifted around in extra taxes and subsidies. We have a word for this "nivellering" which translates as 'leveling' but imo it doesn't catch the full load. Essentially, I've been in a situation while I was a student when I was able to purchase mandatory health insurance for lets say 80 euro a month while getting a 89 euro subsidy (don't know exactly anymore), at the same time my father had to pay 2500 or something like this in extra health insurance tax because he has a good income. So I make 9 a month while he's spending 280+ a month for exactly the same insurance. Now the numbers may not be exactly right but the situation I'm trying to describe definitely existed. Now I also pay more . In any case, what this has caused in my opinion, is a system where there are very little incentives to get ahead. Also, because everybody gets subsidized to 'get an education' and therefore we have a lot of educated people who are completely useless, filling up jobs they can't do... Stopping people who may be able to take those jobs from pure experience and passion for what they are doing. So yeah, quit taxing people. If you absolutely have to, do it by VAT. Then normal people don't have to file taxes and life becomes simpler.
    "I am a bird"



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Who pays the vast majority of taxes in this country, individuals or businesses? (HINT: It's Businesses by a WIDE margin)

    Who should get the lion's share of tax cuts, then?

    I anxiously await your democratic talking points and more chart porn on taxes, etc.
    Corporate/ business taxes only account for about ten percent of revenues.



    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...PxBQkQ9QEILDAA

    At the Federal level, they account for about eleven percent.

    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "Trickle down" doesn't work. I don't support the theory because it fails.
    Yes, it did fail. Just like communism and today's crony socialism is a failure. Taxing the rich (1%) will never work, as they have the power and means to get around any proposal to tax them, and they have the power and connections to take back their tax money plus plenty of profits via crony socialism.

    Tax cuts that benefit everyone will work. Reducing government spending will help grow the productive economy. Ending the Federal Reserve will get rid of the rigged system. Ending artificial labor growth will benefit every worker.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  5. #34

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    corrected
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Fiat is responsible for the unequal distribution of wealth. The two statements are not incompatible.
    Someone please +REP this post, Im out of rep for the moment...

    -----

    Lets explain briefly how statistical data has its perceptions manipulated.

    Simpsons Paradox (Statistical Data Interpretation)


    This is how any person can misinterpret data. Person also includes Zippy, whether or not "he" is a team of people or a misguided individual who has fallen victim to allowing someone else interpret the data for them and not examining both sides of the data to begin with. Our elected leaders also being human are just as susceptible to "Manipulation by Presentation", or as the MSM does it, "Lying by Exclusion".

    What upsets me about Zippy is that he tries to access previously polarized data as "raw data" and interpret the data for us. This is the main reason he is in Rep Hell, but what is a bit more important than his -Rep is the future of the planet. Rep has no value outside of these forums, but Money and Currency both have exceptional levels of influence over almost every aspect of almost every persons life in this world.

    The data we get from Zippy and Govt are heavily biased using Simpsons Paradox to validate theft.
    Last edited by DamianTV; 11-16-2017 at 02:23 PM.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Someone please +REP this post, Im out of rep for the moment...
    So do you think that getting rid of fiat will get rid of unequal distribution of wealth since it is claimed to be the cause of that condition?

    Fiat is responsible for the unequal distribution of wealth.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-16-2017 at 02:27 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So do you think that getting rid of fiat will get rid of unequal distribution of wealth since it is claimed to be the cause of that condition?
    I just edited that post, original part you quoted is still present.

    Getting rid of fiat can not stop unequal wealth distribution in whole, but it can aid in the survival of this country which is a bit more important, and eliminating fiat currency can greatly aid in reducing unequal wealth distribution. Every country that has relied on fiat currency has collapsed. We are no different.
    Last edited by DamianTV; 11-16-2017 at 02:27 PM.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #38

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    ( I see you updated the post above to say that getting rid of fiat will NOT get rid of wealth distribution).

    Every country that has relied on fiat currency has collapsed. We are no different.
    There are countries on fiat today which have not collapsed. What countries not using fiat have survived? (all countries eventually collapse- no matter what money they use).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-16-2017 at 03:39 PM.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  10. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Corporate/ business taxes only account for about ten percent of revenues.

    All taxes ultimately come down to taxing people. You can't hold out your hand and extract money from a piece of dirt or a building.




    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    The data we get from Zippy...are heavily biased...

    Biased is not even a good word to describe "Supporting Member" Zippyjuan. The Zip account is not trustworthy. Simple as that.
    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 11-16-2017 at 03:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post

    Supply side economics is just another form of Keynesianism.
    No. Not really. It is actually the complete opposite. Keynes believed demand drove the economy. Supply siders believe production drives the economy. It is actually based on the ideas of Say, whom Keynes ridiculed.

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    ...doesn't work...only increased the wealth gap.
    Not a good definition of "works."

    Bringing about some particular distribution of wealth shouldn't be the goal of economic policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So do you think that getting rid of fiat will get rid of unequal distribution of wealth
    Inflationary monetary policy tends to further enrich the rich at the expense of the poor.

    Following a move to sound money, the income/wealth gap would narrow, though certainly not vanish.

    That's not the reason that sound money is good policy, mind you.

    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    An interesting question but not the best best question. The question presumes that zero disparity in itself is the greatest goal regardless of all individual merit, skill, effort, savings, investment, ingenuity, creativity, production, work, effort, thrift, demand, supply, etc. Of course a totalitarian communist society that forcibly redistributes wealth by stealing from some to to distribute to others will have the least disparity in theory. (In practice you still have an elite political class with living standards high above everyone else).
    But such a society is built upon aggression, violence, initiation of force, and theft.

    The better framed question is which government society, monetary and financial systems , implement the least theft and redistribution through force and fraud, whether taxation, confiscation, monetary inflation.
    And which grows the pie fastest, and distributes slices most meritocratically?

    ...the answers to all three questions being laissez faire.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Let's give the rich a tax cut- then maybe they will create more high paying jobs and share their wealth with everybody. Or maybe not.
    If we're going to steal the moral thing to do would be to steal the same proportion from everyone.

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    If we're going to steal the moral thing to do would be to steal the same proportion from everyone.
    No, the moral thing would be to steal the same amount from everyone, not proportion

    Jeesh, WTF are we talking about with moral stealing? No theft is moral; and thieves take from whomever is easiest to steal from. So steal from liberals - they're probably not packing heat.
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Fiat is responsible for the unequal distribution of wealth. The two statements are not incompatible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So do you think that getting rid of fiat will get rid of unequal distribution of wealth since it is claimed to be the cause of that condition?
    Denying the antecedent is Zippy's favorite fallacy.

    He thinks that if you say, "Rain is responsible for sidewalks getting wet," then you are claiming that sidewalks can't get wet unless it rains ...

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    No, the moral thing would be to steal the same amount from everyone, not proportion

    Jeesh, WTF are we talking about with moral stealing? No theft is moral; and thieves take from whomever is easiest to steal from. So steal from liberals - they're probably not packing heat.
    You're right, although you could make a case for equal proportion and I think it's a good compromise.

    I think main reason you want to "spread the pain" evenly is to avoid what we have now which is tyranny of the majority. Everyone wants to raise taxes on the "rich guy". And everyone thinks (even here) that the people making more than them have all these secret loopholes so we need to raise the rates on them to make it even.

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Denying the antecedent is Zippy's favorite fallacy.

    He thinks that if you say, "Rain is responsible for sidewalks getting wet," then you are claiming that sidewalks can't get wet unless it rains ...
    To me the whole point of how wealth is distributed is irrelevant. The main point is how much liberty do you have. That's should be the goal, not how the wealth ends up. Plus the fact is that in mostly free countries the poor are better off than even the middle class in mostly unfree countries. Simply because freedom allows producers to "make more stuff".

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    No. Not really. It is actually the complete opposite. Keynes believed demand drove the economy. Supply siders believe production drives the economy. It is actually based on the ideas of Say, whom Keynes ridiculed.
    There is no man more abused and misunderstood in economics than Jean Baptiste Say.

    https://fee.org/articles/understandi...aw-of-markets/

    Supply-side or demand-side, all of it is the same broken program of government playing as if it could manage and regulate the market. Supply-side economics is nothing more than a government program to boost aggregate demand by flooding the system with products. Boosts the GDP nicely, but whether actual wealth is created by producing something people want? Irrelevant. It creates jobs and makes the numbers look good through mass consumption of scarce resources. Which is pure Keynesian thought. The policy implementations aren't different in any real way, one side starts with reduced tax rates and the other with more tax rebates.

    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    There is no man more abused and misunderstood in economics than Jean Baptiste Say.

    https://fee.org/articles/understandi...aw-of-markets/

    Supply-side or demand-side, all of it is the same broken program of government playing as if it could manage and regulate the market. Supply-side economics is nothing more than a government program to boost aggregate demand by flooding the system with products. Boosts the GDP nicely, but whether actual wealth is created by producing something people want? Irrelevant. It creates jobs and makes the numbers look good through mass consumption of scarce resources. Which is pure Keynesian thought. The policy implementations aren't different in any real way, one side starts with reduced tax rates and the other with more tax rebates.

    It depends on how you define supply side economics. I've always thought it meant less government = less taxes and regulations = more liberty for producers = more stuff for everyone. Basically I thought supply side economics was just a fancy term for free market economics.

    I think if the most productive were granted the same liberties as the common person, we'd have a much higher standard of living.
    Last edited by Madison320; 11-17-2017 at 02:09 PM.

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