View Poll Results: See thread title

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm an anarchist.

    5 35.71%
  • I'm a minarchist.

    7 50.00%
  • I'm not a libertarian at all.

    2 14.29%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 60

Thread: Are You An Anarchist Or A Minarchist?

  1. #1

    Default Are You An Anarchist Or A Minarchist?

    This doesn't need to become a debate thread, as we have several going on the topic; I'm just curious how the forum breaks down.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 11-01-2017 at 05:21 PM.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

    Default

    I'm a pretty big fan of both.

    The biggest 'con' of minarchism seems to be that it eventually leads to bigger government since people who want power will gravitate toward running the government and expanding it - also should mention that it is not perfect under NAP or voluntarism, there is some coercion involved, although minimal.

    The biggest 'pro' of minarchism as opposed to anarchy seems to be that minarchism has the goal and the power to impose a fair standard of law and order. Anarchy it would seem might have some complex issues in this department, although it doesn't mean there cannot be a fair standard of law and order under anarchy.. There certainly are a lot of ideas about how to do that.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3

    Default

    Define the terms and I'll play.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Define the terms and I'll play.
    Anarchist: "the state should be abolished and a free market in security should replace it"

    Minarchist: "that would be nice, but it isn't actually possible, hence the goal should be to keep the state as small as possible, not abolish it."
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Anarchist: "the state should be abolished and a free market in security should replace it"

    Minarchist: "that would be nice, but it isn't actually possible, hence the goal should be to keep the state as small as possible, not abolish it."
    Eh, minarchist with the ultimate goal of anarchy.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Anarchist: "the state should be abolished and a free market in security should replace it"

    Minarchist: "that would be nice, but it isn't actually possible, hence the goal should be to keep the state as small as possible, not abolish it."
    Is believing that one has the freedom to maintain their own security anarchy?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Is believing that one has the freedom to maintain their own security anarchy?
    I don't know what that means.

    If you're asking whether belief in a right to self-defense qualifies one as an anarchist, no, it doesn't.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I don't know what that means.

    If you're asking whether belief in a right to self-defense qualifies one as an anarchist, no, it doesn't.
    It's the quintessential "private" security force. Where you object is if I pay someone else to provide it on my behalf. Some people like to change their own oil. Some don't.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    It's the quintessential "private" security force. Where you object is if I pay someone else to provide it on my behalf. Some people like to change their own oil. Some don't.
    It sounds like you can go ahead and check the "I'm an anarchist" box.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It sounds like you can go ahead and check the "I'm an anarchist" box.
    As should you, as you believe private self-defense is a right.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    As should you, as you believe private self-defense is a right.
    To repeat myself..

    Anarchist: "the state should be abolished and a free market in security should replace it"

    Minarchist: "that would be nice, but it isn't actually possible, hence the goal should be to keep the state as small as possible, not abolish it."
    It would be swell if people could secure their rights by hiring one of many freely competing private defense agencies.

    And such an arrangement is impossible.

    Hence minarchism.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    To repeat myself..



    It would be swell if people could secure their rights by hiring one of many freely competing private defense agencies.

    And such an arrangement is impossible.

    Hence minarchism.
    "Hire"? Huh? "Free Market" means simply "non-compulsory". That means you; without government, protecting your family with a shotgun. Or you and your cousins protecting your land, or MAYBE hiring help. This arrangement isn't possible?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  14. #13

    Default

    To vote in the poll, or not to vote ... hmmmm
    The only easy day was yesterday.

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    "Hire"? Huh? "Free Market" means simply "non-compulsory". That means you; without government, protecting your family with a shotgun. Or you and your cousins protecting your land, or MAYBE hiring help. This arrangement isn't possible?
    No
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Eh, minarchist with the ultimate goal of anarchy.
    if that were really true sir... we would get along famously.

    if I might point it out. (just in case you did not notice) you are VERY clearly "anti-Federalist"
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  17. #16

    Default

    I believe anarchy should be held as a option and a goal no matter what. It keeps the debate in the spectrum it should be. To surrender the idea that it is possible and something to be held up as a goal is simply implying you don't believe we can ever live without oversight. Therefore man cannot fly because he has no wings.

    Whether or not it is achievable in our lifetime matters not, the desire for freedom from a central governing power should never be abandoned. We are not bees we are human.

    And ya, poll needs more options is my vote.

  18. #17

    Default

    Neither. I'm a Smallerist. I want government to be smaller than it is, and will probably ever be. I believe that both Anarchists and Minarchists should unite with all Smallerists so the government shrinks to the point that some of you start jumping ship. Until that happens these debates are a waste of time.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  19. #18

    Default

    I went with anarchist , I could even do monarchy if I am King .

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I went with anarchist , I could even do monarchy if I am King .
    Too many chiefs.......
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Neither. I'm a Smallerist. I want government to be smaller than it is, and will probably ever be. I believe that both Anarchists and Minarchists should unite with all Smallerists so the government shrinks to the point that some of you start jumping ship. Until that happens these debates are a waste of time.
    No REAL Smallerist want a coalition. You're a paid troll Embiggenist, aren't you?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    No REAL Smallerist want a coalition. You're a paid troll Embiggenist, aren't you?
    Only for the babes.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Neither. I'm a Smallerist. I want government to be smaller than it is, and will probably ever be. I believe that both Anarchists and Minarchists should unite with all Smallerists so the government shrinks to the point that some of you start jumping ship. Until that happens these debates are a waste of time.
    End goal and strategy are different things.

    Both anarchists and minarchists should be "smallerists."

    But that's not the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I believe anarchy should be held as a option and a goal no matter what. It keeps the debate in the spectrum it should be. To surrender the idea that it is possible and something to be held up as a goal is simply implying you don't believe we can ever live without oversight. Therefore man cannot fly because he has no wings.

    Whether or not it is achievable in our lifetime matters not, the desire for freedom from a central governing power should never be abandoned. We are not bees we are human.

    And ya, poll needs more options is my vote.
    Recognizing reality is never a bad thing.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  24. #23

    Default

    @specsaregood

    You're not a libertarian?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    @specsaregood
    You're not a libertarian?
    No way, it sounds way too exhausting. I'm just an $#@!.

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post



    Recognizing reality is never a bad thing.
    Epic derp.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Epic derp.
    Iambic potato
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Iambic potato

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    No way, it sounds way too exhausting. I'm just an $#@!.
    I'd like to see politics abolished, and I don't mean either the anarchist or goo-goo solution.

    But that's another story.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    if that were really true sir... we would get along famously.

    if I might point it out. (just in case you did not notice) you are VERY clearly "anti-Federalist"
    Why do you keep harping on this?

    We've been over it a million $#@!ing times.

    I am an "Anti Federalist" in that, had I been there in 1787, I would have been opposed to the national CONstitution as presented, for the reasons that have all come true, a huge federal government that tramples the rights of citizens and a King/President and regulatory state issuing fatwas and edicts from on high.

    Anti Federalism has nothing at all to do with opposition to a "federation" per se, other than to continue to point out that any federation, the larger it gets, the more likely it is to become tyrannical.

    The "Federalists" were in favor of the Philadelphia counter revolution.

    The "Anti Federalists" opposed them.


    The Anti-Federalists

    In the ratification debate, the Anti-Federalists opposed to the Constitution. They complained that the new system threatened liberties, and failed to protect individual rights. The Anti-Federalists weren't exactly a united group, but instead involved many elements.

    One faction opposed the Constitution because they thought stronger government threatened the sovereignty of the states. Others argued that a new centralized government would have all the characteristics of the despotism of Great Britain they had fought so hard to remove themselves from. And still others feared that the new government threatened their personal liberties.

    During the push for ratification, many of the articles in opposition were written under pseudonyms, such as "Brutus," " Centinel", and "Federal Farmer," but some famous revolutionary figures such as Patrick Henry came out publicly against the Constitution.

    Although the Anti-Federalists were unsuccessful in the prevention of the adoption of the Constitution, their efforts were responsible for the creation and implementation of the Bill of Rights.

    https://www.constitutionfacts.com/us...-great-debate/
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 11-01-2017 at 08:12 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast





Similar Threads

  1. Minarchist or Anarchist?
    By Rael in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 04-26-2015, 02:42 PM
  2. A socialist society, a minarchist society, and an anarchist society.
    By Icymudpuppy in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-15-2011, 11:42 AM
  3. Anarchist, Minarchist, or Other? (POLL)
    By Lothario in forum Political Philosophy & Government Policy
    Replies: 189
    Last Post: 09-16-2011, 06:59 PM
  4. Anarchist, Minarchist, or Other? (POLL)
    By Lothario in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-05-2011, 04:37 PM
  5. Stefan Molyneux (anarchist) interviews Peter Schiff (minarchist)
    By TotalLiberty in forum Peter Schiff Forum 2010
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-21-2010, 03:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •