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  1. #1

    Trump May Not Seek Re-election: Rand Paul

    Senator Rand Paul said on Sunday night that even though the president is raising millions for a 2020 campaign, Republicans should not assume he's running.

    “There could well be a primary," the junior senator from Kentucky said on MSNBC, after being asked if a 2020 primary would be good for the Republican Party.

    Paul had prefaced his remark by saying Republicans "need to know [if] President Trump [is] running for re-election. I think you won't know that until you get into sort of second, third year of his presidency."


    Paul’s comment echoes what Trump insider and New Jersey Governor Chris Christie told the Today show's Matt Lauer on October 27: "If he runs again I would support him, yes, but I'm not so sure what will happen."

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-may...140318114.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  3. #2
    Paul will not do well in a 2020 Primary if that's what people are hoping for. The nation is far far too polarized and brainwashed by Trump (both for and against) for anyone with actual principles or ideas to make any headway in his wake. Republicans are now chiefly concerned with merely pissing off liberals and stomping on them every chance they get, regardless of the underlying principles or morality. Democrats meanwhile are going to see every Republican as a reprehensible MAGA-hat-wearing Trump disciple and ignore anything else, especially any theoretical idea requiring more than 2 neurons to comprehend.

    Mark my words- 2020 is going to be worse than 2016 in terms of discourse. Trump and the ignorant, emotionally-driven overreaction to Obama which he led, with no foundation in theory or principles, is what did this. America will need 4 years after him to reset before it even starts thinking again.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Mark my words- 2020 is going to be worse than 2016 in terms of discourse. Trump and the ignorant, emotionally-driven overreaction to Obama which he led, with no foundation in theory or principles, is what did this. America will need 4 years after him to reset before it even starts thinking again.
    I'm pretty sure the left-right paradigm and the tactics of divide and conquer used by the media have existed long before Trump. Sure, his actions may have escalated it, but the media painted him out to be Satan and still continue to. This leads to dividing a lot of people into two opposing groups. Do you agree with media and treat Trump like Satan or do you disagree with him and "defend" him as if you're defending yourself because in defending him, you're defending your ideology opposing the media in a sense.

    I dont disagree with you that people are only becoming more ignorant and violent, but this all can't be blamed on Trump.
    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Paul will not do well in a 2020 Primary if that's what people are hoping for. The nation is far far too polarized and brainwashed by Trump (both for and against) for anyone with actual principles or ideas to make any headway in his wake. Republicans are now chiefly concerned with merely pissing off liberals and stomping on them every chance they get, regardless of the underlying principles or morality. Democrats meanwhile are going to see every Republican as a reprehensible MAGA-hat-wearing Trump disciple and ignore anything else, especially any theoretical idea requiring more than 2 neurons to comprehend.

    Mark my words- 2020 is going to be worse than 2016 in terms of discourse. Trump and the ignorant, emotionally-driven overreaction to Obama which he led, with no foundation in theory or principles, is what did this. America will need 4 years after him to reset before it even starts thinking again.
    Lucid.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Paul will not do well in a 2020 Primary if that's what people are hoping for. The nation is far far too polarized and brainwashed by Trump (both for and against) for anyone with actual principles or ideas to make any headway in his wake. Republicans are now chiefly concerned with merely pissing off liberals and stomping on them every chance they get, regardless of the underlying principles or morality. Democrats meanwhile are going to see every Republican as a reprehensible MAGA-hat-wearing Trump disciple and ignore anything else, especially any theoretical idea requiring more than 2 neurons to comprehend.

    Mark my words- 2020 is going to be worse than 2016 in terms of discourse. Trump and the ignorant, emotionally-driven overreaction to Obama which he led, with no foundation in theory or principles, is what did this. America will need 4 years after him to reset before it even starts thinking again.
    I'm not so sure. Liberals wouldn't vote for a Republican regardless, and there are far fewer "Maga" folk than the media portrays. What we will hopefully see is the dem's freak-show coalition going against a reasonable gop candidate who resonates with the unclaimed middle class.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Murray N Rothbard View Post
    Paul will not do well in a 2020 Primary if that's what people are hoping for. The nation is far far too polarized and brainwashed by Trump (both for and against) for anyone with actual principles or ideas to make any headway in his wake. Republicans are now chiefly concerned with merely pissing off liberals and stomping on them every chance they get, regardless of the underlying principles or morality. Democrats meanwhile are going to see every Republican as a reprehensible MAGA-hat-wearing Trump disciple and ignore anything else, especially any theoretical idea requiring more than 2 neurons to comprehend.

    Mark my words- 2020 is going to be worse than 2016 in terms of discourse. Trump and the ignorant, emotionally-driven overreaction to Obama which he led, with no foundation in theory or principles, is what did this. America will need 4 years after him to reset before it even starts thinking again.
    The public will eventually develop clown fatigue and throw their support behind a (relatively) sober, policy-driven candidate.

    That's not necessarily Rand, of course, but it's a better environment for him than the current circus.

    It's the sort of environment that he was anticipating in 2016, and for which his campaign was well designed.

    When? You say 2024/28. I'm a little more optimistic. 2020 is realistic if Trump continues to make an ass of himself while failing to deliver anything.

  8. #7
    Yeah I think Rand should just stick to the Senate, or go back to his medical practice if he wants to.
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    or go back to his medical practice if he wants to.
    I dearly hope it doesn't come to this.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    I dearly hope it doesn't come to this.
    I wouldn't blame him to be honest. I swear he must feel like this every time he tries talking to Congress and the media:

    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

  12. #10
    I would like to see Paul run again. A bit of sanity in politics would be nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  13. #11
    The neocons have Pence in place and guaranteed as the next GOP pick. He will be their greatest victory yet.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The neocons have Pence in place and guaranteed as the next GOP pick. He will be their greatest victory yet.
    It is a lock as far as i know .

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    It is a lock as far as i know .
    Did you consult the Magic 8 ball?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Did you consult the Magic 8 ball?
    3 times

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The neocons have Pence in place and guaranteed as the next GOP pick. He will be their greatest victory yet.
    Which is why Trump needs to run again in 2020. By 2024 it is possible the Neocons will have been purged and it will give Don Jr. the necessary time to establish himself as Trump's natural successor.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Which is why Trump needs to run again in 2020... it will give Don Jr. the necessary time to establish himself as Trump's natural successor.
    Exactly, Trump's building himself a political dynasty, like many others past. He's in this to win yuuuge, not quit after 4 years.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    Exactly, Trump's building himself a political dynasty, like many others past. He's in this to win yuuuge, not quit after 4 years.
    But Rand definitely did the right thing (in terms of staying on Trump's good side) by suggesting Trump might not run because that is surely the posture Trump himself is going to take. Trump will want his announcement that he's running again to be as dramatic as possible so he's going to float the idea that he's "deliberating" on whether or not to run for another term in the build up to the big reveal.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    But Rand definitely did the right thing (in terms of staying on Trump's good side) by suggesting Trump might not run because that is surely the posture Trump himself is going to take. Trump will want his announcement that he's running again to be as dramatic as possible so he's going to float the idea that he's "deliberating" on whether or not to run for another term in the build up to the big reveal.
    he's also 71 not many more good years left..

  22. #19
    Far too early to see how anything is gonna shake out.

  23. #20
    Rand is fortunate that Trump hasn't endorsed him as his replacement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Rand is fortunate that Trump hasn't endorsed him as his replacement.
    What planet did you just come back from?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What planet did you just come back from?
    How is US Senate GOP candidate Luther Strange polling in your galaxy, after his YUUGE victory over Roy Moore in the primary?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    How is US Senate GOP candidate Luther Strange polling in your galaxy, after his YUUGE victory over Roy Moore in the primary?
    Who cares?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again



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  29. #25
    Rand was doing well until Trump jumped in and the avalanche of media coverage followed him. He got buried along with all the other republican candidates.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mello View Post
    Rand was doing well until Trump jumped in and the avalanche of media coverage followed him. He got buried along with all the other republican candidates.
    OH PLEASE. Rand killed his own chances. He did it all by himself. If he had wanted to kill his campaign, he couldn't have done a better job of it. Now, THAT is the truth. Deal with it.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    OH PLEASE. Rand killed his own chances. He did it all by himself. If he had wanted to kill his campaign, he couldn't have done a better job of it. Now, THAT is the truth. Deal with it.
    That is NOT the truth.

    Trump-lovers & the media took Rand down.

    Deal with it.
    There is no spoon.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    That is NOT the truth.

    Trump-lovers & the media took Rand down.

    Deal with it.
    Nope.

    It was indeed sad to watch. It started with Rand supporting McConnell against being called a liar on the Senate floor. It made him look like establishment, in a political climate where establishment was not the thing to be.

    You have a convenient memory, Ender.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Nope.

    It was indeed sad to watch. It started with Rand supporting McConnell against being called a liar on the Senate floor. It made him look like establishment, in a political climate where establishment was not the thing to be.

    You have a convenient memory, Ender.
    Sadly I must agree. If Rand had ran on a firebrand don't-give-a-$#@! all out Lion for Liberty campaign, he would have done much better... but he played politics with McConnell and the RINOs and people saw right through it.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    OH PLEASE. Rand killed his own chances. He did it all by himself. If he had wanted to kill his campaign, he couldn't have done a better job of it. Now, THAT is the truth. Deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Nope.

    It was indeed sad to watch. It started with Rand supporting McConnell against being called a liar on the Senate floor. It made him look like establishment, in a political climate where establishment was not the thing to be.

    You have a convenient memory, Ender.
    Oh, go please yourself, if anyone or anything can please you. Nobody's memory is more convenient than yours. You sat here through two Ron Paul primaries, yet you forgot that whom the media does not approve of, the media does not mention. Ron Paul didn't even get his name in the news when he came in second in a primary, even though the candidates who came in first, third and fourth did get named. That is how the media treats candidates it is told to disapprove of. That is how the media torpedoes candidates. It does not take a poll of Republican primary voters, find out they hate and mistrust the media, then advertise nonstop 24/7 that they do not approve of that Republican primary candidate. They do not mention him at all. He gets no free advertising. None.

    And Trump? Trump got nonstop advertising. Nonstop. He got 100% of the publicity. How can I say 100% when other candidates did appear? I documented this stuff. I watched the Sunday Morning Broadcast Blather every week for months. You can see the results here:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tand-Up-Comedy

    Examine it closely, and you can see that Trump was the only Republican blathered about every Sunday, week in and week out, like clockwork. Of course, that doesn't mean he got 100% of the coverage. He might have gotten coverage on every show, while the sixteen other candidates may have only been seen and mentioned one week in sixteen. But, of course, that isn't 100% coverage for Trump. But those sixteen other candidates all got asked questions about Trump during their infrequent interviews. Every one of them, every time. Seventeen candidates was unprecedented. One of seventeen candidates getting coverage on every show was unprecedented. But all candidates getting asked to comment on one particular candidate in every single interview was just infamous. It was a completely different world than the one we grew up in. Nothing of the sort had ever happened before. And if the candidate getting interviewed said, I don't want to talk about him, I have my own ideas, he or she was badgered until he or she did consent to talk about that other candidate. Sometimes the whole interview consisted of him or her getting badgered into talking about Trump.

    And, no, I'm not going to listen to the standard line about how the media played Trump up for ratings. Maybe pointing a camera at Trump was good for ratings, maybe it wasn't. But pointing a camera at someone else and asking them about Trump is not something that they did for ratings. Period.

    In this way, Trump got 100% of the coverage. One hundred percent. One. Hundred. Per. Cent. undergroundrr has explained this to you. mello has explained this to you. ds21089 explained it. But like a good little propagandist, your convenient memory forgets what you heard the moment you hear it. And what did we get in the end? Weapons to Saudi Arabia, Yemen starved, North Korea demonized, inflation so severe that soon the multinationals won't mind hiring us because somebody getting a nickel an hour during the Coolidge years is better off than us, and we've been third-worldized. And no doubt you'd consider that a victory, because we may be working for slave wages, but at least we're working. Kind of like how the new multinational 'deals' are a damned sight worse for America than the TPP, but at least they aren't called the TPP, so you're happy.

    The only difference between dannno's blind support--the kind of blind support that allows someone to point out that Trump's endorsement doesn't always get a candidate elected, dannno to ask them if they're insane, that someone to point to an actual case where Trump's endorsement didn't get a candidate elected, and dannno to ask who cares--and your blind support is, at least dannno isn't constantly in bitchy mood.

    That election was engineered. Rand Paul studied his father's runs, and set out to make a run where he didn't give the media any way to attack him and marginalize him the way they did his father. He set out to run on a rational platform without getting marginalized in voters' minds as 'kooky'. And he succeeded. But instead he was marginalized by being one of seventeen candidates in a field so crowded that not even the serious wonks could name them all. Instead he got marginalized by paid and unpaid trolls--even on grassroots libertarian forums--who continually used his best efforts to look and sound mainstream (the very thing many of us wished aloud his father would do through two campaigns) to cast aspersions on him and sow doubt that he might be 'Establishment'. And then along comes a filthy rich insider who the media advertised--through providing him with one hundred percent of the Republican primary coverage and fakenewsing him as "anti-establishment"--and the paid trolls pretended to buy it, and the unpaid trolls did buy it.

    Did any part of the media even once say they disapproved of Ron Paul? Of course not! They knew that would be a selling point! They knew that would be a selling point eight years before Trump got in the race, yet they said that about Trump every day and you believed it!

    Somebody's stupid. I'm not saying who. But somebody's either a paid troll, or stupid.

    And where's our country now? Besides Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, the Korean peninsula, the Ukraine, and every G20 and Bilderburg conference under the sun, that is. Salivating like dogs every time we get thrown a bone, such as when we hear that no regulations are getting repealed, but at least we're getting new ones shoved down our throats less than half as fast as we were under Obama? This is what conservatives are reduced to? We blame our genuine conservatives for torpedoing their own campaign because they obey Reagan's dictum of 'never speak ill of another Republican'? McConnell? Really? Do forty percent of Kentuckians even know who he is? Does ten percent of the general American population even know who McConnell is? Rand lost because Mc-$#@!ing-Connell? McConnell? Are you $#@!ing kidding me?

    This election was engineered right out from under conscientious, traditional, freedom-loving Americans. And like the girl in the old Shake and Bake commercials, you can proudly say, 'And Ah heped!' Well congratu-$#@!ing-lations. When are you going to get enough sense to stop bragging about helping torpedo your own nation and all the people in it?

    Rand killed his own campaign. Bull-flipping-$#@!. Rand ran the only kind of campaign any sane person would try to run after seeing what was done to his father. He tried to run on a platform of liberty and free enterprise without marginalizing himself so the media could dismiss him out of hand. And the media painted someone else as someone they hated, and publicized him 24/7 right into the White House. When are the people who bought that bull$#@! hook line and sinker going to stop bragging about what fools they've been? That's what I want to know. I can understand the paid trolls hanging around. But when are the suckers going to stop bragging about being suckers?

    I've been trying to figure out since the Nixon Administration became the Ford Administration why Republican voters stick by their mistakes so doggedly. Shakespeare made sense when he said, 'To thine own self be true.' You don't gain anything trying to explain to the world how the people who suckered you didn't really sucker you but ulcers and headaches.

    As for you Lesser of Two Evil trolls, stuff it. This isn't about whether Trump or Pence or Be'ezelbub is worse than Hillary $#@!ing Clinton. This isn't even so much about the person I responded to. This is mostly about traitors like AuHtwenty and his horde of concern trolls, and their relentless efforts to cast aspersions on Rand Paul before Iowa. Anti-American traitorous fascist bastards. Of course, they were just doing their jobs. Whatever. And now they slink around and, since there's no election right now, say placating things like, gee, that didn't work out as well as I hoped. But as long as we keep blaming Rand Paul for not finding a way to run a perfect campaign despite the obvious and golden fact that the media will not cooperate, the longer the traitorous bastards are going to keep fooling us into shooting ourselves in the foot. That debacle was not Rand Paul's fault. He did the obvious thing. And if we hadn't been suckered into leaving him high and dry, it might have actually worked despite the media's efforts to sink us. But instead, we listened to media trolls, and let the man down. Period. And as long as we let them divide and conquer us over trivia and unfounded bull$#@!, Hayek was right and we're $#@!ing useless.

    'In the first instance, it is probably true that, in general, the higher the education and intelligence of individuals become, the more their views and tastes are differentiated and the less likely they are to agree on a particular hierarchy of values. It is a corollary of this that if we wish to find a high degree of uniformity and similarity of outlook, we have to descend to the regions of lower moral and intellectual standards where the more primitive and “common” instincts and tastes prevail.

    'It is, as it were, the lowest common denominator which unites the largest number of people.'--Friedrich Hayek
    And how many of you didn't get paid, yet can say we blew our best chance ever...

    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-01-2017 at 02:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

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