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Thread: Secede or Concede To Empire - That's The Choice

  1. #1

    Default Secede or Concede To Empire - That's The Choice

    Secede or Concede To Empire - That's The Choice



    Power despises independence. Whenever a region or state tries to break away, the larger power usually attacks. That's how the U.S. was formed, by breaking away. It was subsequently attacked for daring to do so. Secession is a valuable tool for Liberty. Secede! Secede! Secede! ... All the way to the ultimate dilution of power -- Individual Liberty.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2

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    Or just become an agorist and say fuggit.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Or just become an agorist and say fuggit.
    whew... my hero!
    "Agorism is revolutionary market anarchism."
    I KNEW you would come through dude!

    "Secession is a valuable tool for Liberty. Secede! Secede! Secede! ... All the way to the ultimate dilution of power -- Individual Liberty."

    HELL YEAH MAN! burn it all down! women and children first!


    sarcasm filter has now been turned back on.
    Last edited by HVACTech; 10-20-2017 at 06:43 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  5. #4

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    This is a very radical notion, Ron has gone too far. We should be faithful to the constitution, cause that's what got us here.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This is a very radical notion, Ron has gone too far. We should be faithful to the constitution, cause that's what got us here.
    I see nothing radical about amending the constitution. Indeed, it's wise. He, in his own words, offered the idea to propose a constitutional amendment to permit for legalizing secession. We amended the constitution to end slavery.

    I agree with him. I don't see what's so radical about amending the constitution.

    Did you watch the video or did you just get aroused by the word secede in the title, O? Because your statement appears contradictory to what the man said. And while you're free to reject and pee all over the constitution here, though it is acting contrary to Part 6, point 11 of the Community Guidelines - "Attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the US constitution", Ron introduces himself as the Champion of the Constitution. And, again, his idea of amendment is wise and reflective of his commitment to its value.


    Please allow the stateman to reintroduce himself in case you've forgotten, friend.

    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-20-2017 at 07:43 PM.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I see nothing radical about amending the constitution. Indeed, it's wise. He, in his own words, offered the idea to propose a constitutional amendment to permit for legalizing secession. We amended the constitution to end slavery.

    I agree with him. I don't see what's so radical about amending the constitution.

    Did you watch the video or did you just get aroused by the word secede in the title, O?
    on this we can agree.

    I would suggest sir... that those who would seek to amend a Constitution.
    should at LEAST know what it is... and what purpose it was created to serve.

    lets just keep it simple, eh? why does such a thing exist in the first place?

    if one does not know what a "Constitution" is....
    how can one support such a construct as this? if one does NOT know what it is?
    or what purpose it serves in a Republic?

    this is an easy enough query. I would think...
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  8. #7

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    I will make the question as simple as I can.

    what role.. does a Constitution serve... in a Republic?

    in truth. I don't think this group is capable of giving an answer.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    whew... my hero!
    "Agorism is revolutionary market anarchism."
    I KNEW you would come through dude!

    "Secession is a valuable tool for Liberty. Secede! Secede! Secede! ... All the way to the ultimate dilution of power -- Individual Liberty."

    HELL YEAH MAN! burn it all down! women and children first!


    sarcasm filter has now been turned back on.
    I'm glad it was off for that screed. Thank you.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    I will make the question as simple as I can.

    what role.. does a Constitution serve... in a Republic?

    in truth. I don't think this group is capable of giving an answer.
    I'm sure Christopher Browne could set you right.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I'm sure Christopher Browne could set you right.
    it is really a very simple question. what IS the Constitution in the first place?

    clearly, it is separate from both the bill of rights and also the declaration of independence....
    and if such is true....
    why does it exist at all?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    it is really a very simple question. what IS the Constitution in the first place?

    clearly, it is separate from both the bill of rights and also the declaration of independence....
    and if such is true....
    why does it exist at all?
    Ask AF.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Ask AF.
    AF is busy googling the question.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I see nothing radical about amending the constitution. Indeed, it's wise. He, in his own words, offered the idea to propose a constitutional amendment to permit for legalizing secession. We amended the constitution to end slavery.

    I agree with him. I don't see what's so radical about amending the constitution.

    Did you watch the video or did you just get aroused by the word secede in the title, O? Because your statement appears contradictory to what the man said. And while you're free to reject and pee all over the constitution here, though it is acting contrary to Part 6, point 11 of the Community Guidelines - "Attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the US constitution", Ron introduces himself as the Champion of the Constitution. And, again, his idea of amendment is wise and reflective of his commitment to its value.


    Please allow the stateman to reintroduce himself in case you've forgotten, friend.

    So, O Wise One, what do you think the odds are of a amendment passing allowing for secession?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    So, O Wise One, what do you think the odds are of a amendment passing allowing for secession?
    Snowball's chance in Hell.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Snowball's chance in Hell.
    I would allow California to secede.
    the state flag has a picture of a bear on it. and CLEARLY denotes this state as a Republic.

    still waiting on AF.... AF knows what a Republic is... right #antifederalist?
    I am sure. that he will know if the bear is Russian or not.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  17. #16

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    Oh, this again...


  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Oh, this again...

    that is not a Bear dude...

    it looks to me.. like you have only been to San Francisco.
    or perchance Los Angeles.

    if you drive the San Joaquin valley.
    you will have a better idea about what California is really all about.

    I recommend that YOU do not stray off of that road.
    or thou art, will find thyself...
    in Bear Country.
    Last edited by HVACTech; 10-21-2017 at 08:31 PM.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    that is not a Bear dude...

    it looks to me.. like you have only been to San Francisco.
    or perchance Los Angeles.

    if you drive the San Joaquin valley.
    you will have a better idea about what California is really all about.

    I recommend that YOU do not stray off of that road.
    or thou art, will find thyself...
    in Bear Country.
    Then let them fight for their independence.

    California is cancer.

    Cut it out.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-22-2017 at 10:57 PM.

  20. #19

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    we need secession not to change the Constitution, but to restore it. We have not been under the Constitution since the civil war. This is a radically different Constitution and government we are under know, and since the war, compared to that of the founders.


    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-the-Civil-war

  21. #20

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    The Legality of Seccession

    Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.”
    -Abraham Lincoln 1848

    “The South maintained with the depth of religious conviction that the Union formed under the Constitution was a Union of consent and not of force; that the original States were not the creatures but the creators of the Union; that these States had gained their independence, their freedom, and their sovereignty from the mother country, and had not surrendered these on entering the Union; that by the express terms of the Constitution all rights and powers not delegated were reserved to the States; and the South challenged the North to find one trace of authority in that Constitution for invading and coercing a sovereign State.-the one for liberty in the union of the States, the other for liberty in the independence of the States.”
    -John B Gordon Confederate General Reminiscences of the Civil War


    The right to self govern is maybe the most fundamental American right there is. It is what led to the revolution. America prior to 1860 maintained a confederation of sovereign states. These states were self governing and independent. The right to succession has been a fundamental right of sovereign states in American history. It has been more common of northern states in America prior to 1860, to discuss or threatened succession. Lincoln turned history on its head and declared the nation created the states and states had no right to leave the union. He also declared the entire people [not the states simple democracy] created the union.

    “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”
    -Declaration of Independence


    The declaration of Independence says “These colonies are, and ought to be free and independent States.” The deceleration is itself a succession document. When the revolution ended the king of England made a peace treaty with each and every state, not with one American nation. Under the articles of confederation article 1 section 2. “Each state retains its sovereignty freedom and Independence.” This is at odds with Lincolns view, but even so, some will say the peoples of the states gave up sovereignty when they ratified the Constitution.

    "The Union was formed by the voluntary agreement of the states; and these, in uniting together, have not forfeited their nationality, nor have they been reduced to the condition of one and the same people. If one of the states chooses to withdraw from the compact, it would be difficult to disapprove its right of doing so, andthe Federal Government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right.
    -Alexis de Tocqueville Democracy in America


    The first draft of the preamble to the constitution read “we the people of the states of New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode island etc.. when they realized not all states might adopt it, they left out the states to ratify as they chose to. The constitution was than ratified by the states, not the American people. The self governing sovereign people of the individual states appointed representative from each state to ratify the constitution. The states existed prior to and created the constitution out of their own free will. In federalist #39 James Madison “The father of the constitution” said the constitution was ratified by the people “Not as individuals composing one entire nation, but as composing the distinct and independent states to which they respectively belong” “states were considered a sovereign body, independent of all others, and only bound by its own voluntary act.” Virginia, New York and Rhode Island reserved the right to succeed from the union before ratifying the constitution.

    “The laws of Congress are restricted to a certain sphere, and when they depart from this sphere, they are no longer supreme or binding.”
    -New York’s ratifying convention


    They also declared the right for other states, the others assumed this was the case. In the constitution “united states” is always in plural, not the way we use it today as to refer to one nation. When the constitution was formed, the states had to seceded from the articles of confederation to do so. Federally founded West Point taught the right to secession in its textbook “a view of the constitution of the united states of america by William Rawle.” The constitution nowhere outlaws secession. The constitution established where the federal government has been delegated authority. The rest is reserved to the states. Secession than is a state issue. Nothing is authorized to the states in the constitution [secession or otherwise] since the purpose of the constitution is federal powers.

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
    -10th amendment U.S Constitution


    Thomas Jefferson

    “Resolved, That the several States composing, the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that, by a compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States, and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes — delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving, each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: that to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral part, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself...each party has equal right to judge for itself”
    -Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 written by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison

    “Sever ourselves from the union we so much value, rather than give up the rights of self government which we have reserved, and in which alone we see liberty, safety and happiness”
    -Thomas Jefferson to James Madison 1799

    Hartford convention

    At the convention the New England states debated whether they should leave the union. No one questioned the legality, simply if it should be done. In 1801 Thomas Jefferson as president said “If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve this union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed.” Jefferson said alittel rebellion is “a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” When as president the New England federalist were considering succession Jefferson said “If any state in the union will declare that it prefers separation...let us separate”

    Other Founders

    “But the indissoluble link of union between the people of the several states of this confederated nation, is after all, not in the right, but in the heart. If the day should ever come, (may Heaven avert it,) when the affections of the people of these states shall be alienated from each other; when the fraternal spirit shall give away to cold indifference, or collisions of interest shall fester into hatred, the bands of political association will not long hold together parties no longer attracted by the magnetism of conciliated interests and kindly sympathies; and far better will it be for the people of the disunited states, to part in friendship from each other, than to be held together by constraint. Then will be the time for reverting to the precedents which occurred at the formation and adoption of the Constitution, to form again a more perfect union, by dissolving that which could no longer bind, and to leave the separated parts to be reunited by the law of political gravitation to the centre”
    -John Quincy Adams Northern federalist 1839


    Northern federalist Daniel Webster said in 1851 that if the north would not comply with the fugitive slave law, “The south would no longer be bound to observe the compact. A bargain can not be broken on one side, and still bind the other side”

    “The thirteen states are thirteen sovereign bodies”
    -Oliver Ellsworth

    “The states are nations”
    -Daniel Webster Commentaries on the Constitution

    “If the union was formed by the accession of states then the union may be dissolved by the secession of states”
    -Daniel Webster U.S senate Feb 15 1833

    “The attributes of sovereignty are now enjoyed by every state in the union”
    -Alexander Hamilton

    “The first thing I have at heart is American liberty, the second thing is American union
    -Patrick Henry

    “Had Buchanan in 1860 sent armed forces to prevent the nullification of the fugitive slave law, as Andrew Jackson thretned to do so in 1833, there would have been a secession of fifteen northern states instead of thirteen southern states. Had the democrats won in 1860 the northern states would have been the seceding states not the southern.”
    - George Lunt of Massachusetts Origin of the Late war

    By 1860 clearly the southern states saw secession as legal but so did most in the north and many leading newspapers. West Virginia during the civil war seceded from the confederacy and the state of Virginia. f

    “the leading and most influncial papers of the union believe that any state of the union has a right to secede”
    -Davenport Iowa Democrat and news 11/17/60

    “opposing secession changes the nature of government “from a voluntary one, in which the people are sovereigns, to a despotism were one part of the people are slaves”
    - New York Journal of commerce 1/12/61

    “The great principles embodied by Jefferson in the declaration is... that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed” Therefore if the southern states wish to secede, “they have a clear right to do so”
    -New York tribune 2/5/61


    Secession is “the very germ of liberty...the right of secession inheres to the people of every sovereign state”
    -Kenosha Wisconsin Democrat 1/11/61


    Treason

    Article 3 section 3 of the constitution says
    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

    This is what Abraham Lincoln did in the American civil war, he waged war against the southern states.

    “To coerce the states is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised... a complying state at war with a non complying state. Congress marching the troops of one state into the bosom of another? Here is a nation at war with itself. Can any reasonable man be well disposed toward a government which makes war and carnage the only means of supporting itself- a government that can exists only by the sword”.
    -Alexander Hamilton Northern federalist


    “Before the war a union a collection of states... after the war we began to speak of a nation”
    -Ken Burns



    Our nations greatest heroes IMO were traitors. The declaration of Independence was a secession document of sovereign states choosing separation from England's tyrannical government. From Great Britans point of view, they were the loyalist and Americans the traitors. The difference is the north won the war. Had America lost its war for independence, they would have taught the founders as traitors and rebels in textbooks in America. During the revolution “loyalist” like Benedict Arnold were the traitors.

    “Rebellion if successful, is sacred, if not, is treason”
    Proverb
    Last edited by 1stvermont; 10-22-2017 at 04:17 PM.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stvermont View Post
    we need secession not to change the Constitution, but to restore it. We have not been under the Constitution since the civil war. This is a radically different Constitution and government we are under know, and since the war, compared to that of the founders.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-the-Civil-war
    The right to self determination is the first and universal human right.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The right to self determination is the first and universal human right.
    Of course, acting on that right is quite another thing. Only worthy men can be free men. That means being about it instead of just talking about it.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Or just become an agorist and say fuggit.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

    The problem with "states rights" is that it is, by definition, statism.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Then let them fight for their independence.

    California is cancer.

    Cut it out.
    right now. today.. and at this very moment..
    California is a REPUBLIC sir.

    that YOU do NOT understand the meaning of this word. ..
    is well documented.

    when California.. is no longer a REPUBLIC.
    I might consider forsaking them.. until that time occurs...
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Of course, acting on that right is quite another thing. Only worthy men can be free men. That means being about it instead of just talking about it.
    was that an interrogative statement?

    if such was true Sir. Liberty would require competence.

    methinks thou art is being hard on AF. Sir.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    right now. today.. and at this very moment..
    California is a REPUBLIC sir.

    that YOU do NOT understand the meaning of this word. ..
    is well documented.

    when California.. is no longer a REPUBLIC.

    I might consider forsaking them.. until that time occurs...
    North Korea is a one party republic just like California.

    Besides, who are you to say anybody has to stick around?

    You are not forsaking them, they are forsaking you.

    You gonna point a gun to their head to stick around?

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    North Korea is a one party republic just like California.

    Besides, who are you to say anybody has to stick around?

    You are not forsaking them, they are forsaking you.

    You gonna point a gun to their head to stick around?
    China is a REPUBLIC so is Russia.

    WE are a REPUBLIC.

    do you care to argue about that? or, do you accept it as fact.
    I know it confuses your simple mind. but, if we are all REPUBLICS...

    would it not be important.. to know what a REPUBLIC is?

    Russia is also a "federation" in fact, a 'Democratic" Federation.
    just like we are.

    is that why you hate Caucasians?
    or,
    do. NOT know what that word means either?
    Last edited by HVACTech; 10-23-2017 at 07:10 PM. Reason: this guy is a hoot!
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  29. #28

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    Until the individual is able to secede, secession means nothing.


    http://praxeology.net/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf
    Last edited by osan; 10-23-2017 at 11:50 PM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    China is a REPUBLIC so is Russia.

    WE are a REPUBLIC.

    do you care to argue about that? or, do you accept it as fact.
    I know it confuses your simple mind. but, if we are all REPUBLICS...

    would it not be important.. to know what a REPUBLIC is?

    Russia is also a "federation" in fact, a 'Democratic" Federation.
    just like we are.

    is that why you hate Caucasians?
    or,
    do. NOT know what that word means either?
    So I guess the answer to my question is yes: you would stick a gun in somebody's face and force them to hang around you.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Until the individual is able to secede, secession means nothing.


    http://praxeology.net/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf
    Around 70% couldn't survive as an Individual when they must.

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