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Thread: Bitcoin Is Fiat Currency…Backed By Nothing

  1. #1

    Bitcoin Is Fiat Currency…Backed By Nothing

    https://antoniusaquinas.com/2017/10/...onetary-babel/

    Bitcoin: A Tower of Monetary Babel

    The promoters of crypto currencies have gushingly touted them as the mechanism by which the present central banking cabal and the system of nation states which derive much of their power from will be brought down and replaced by digital money. Despite their meteoric rise as speculative “assets,” there are fundamental economic reasons why they will never act as a general medium of exchange despite the wild enthusiasm for them by the crypto-currency cultists.

    Money – a general medium of exchange – is the most marketable (exchangeable) commodity in an economy. As a good, money is not sought after for its direct use – to satisfy individual wants – but to satisfy wants indirectly through exchange for other goods. Over time, one good becomes money since it possesses qualities superior to all other goods as a money. When gold became demanded not for its “use value,” but for its “exchange value,” it became a general medium of exchange – money.

    As a consumer good, gold possessed a value or a “price” prior to it becoming a money, as the eminent monetary theorist Murray Rothbard explains:

    . . . embedded in the demand for money is knowledge

    of the money-prices of the immediate past; in contrast

    to directly-used consumers’ or producers’ goods, money

    must have pre-existing prices on which to ground a demand.

    But the only way this can happen is by beginning with a useful

    commodity under barter, and then adding demand for a

    medium to the previous demand for direct use (e.g., for

    ornaments in the case of gold.)*

    Thus, Bitcoin’s “price” is not in terms of its original commodity price, but its price is in terms of dollars, Euros, yuan, etc. In the dollar’s case, it was at one time linked to gold, but has since been severed from it while Bitcoin has had no such relationship.

    Once money is established, then prices are expressed in terms of it and thus economic calculation can rationally take place and the division of labor and specialization can be expanded. Rothbard continues:

    The establishment of money conveys another great

    benefit. Since all exchanges are made in money, all the

    exchange-ratios are expressed in money, and so people

    can now compare the market worth of each good to that

    of every other good.**

    Once gold became money, the price of goods became expressed in gold not in other elements – nickel, zinc, lead, etc. With the proliferation of crypto currencies, there will be a myriad of different price ratios for each good. There will be a Bitcoin price for a car, an Ethereum price for a car, a Dogecoin price of a car, and so on. This is the antithesis of the purpose of money – one unit of account that reflect prices for all commodities as Rothbard shows:



    Because gold is a general medium it is most marketable,

    it can be stored to serve as a medium in the future as well

    as the present, and all prices are expressed in its terms.

    Because gold is a commodity medium for all exchanges,

    it can serve as a unit of account for present, and expected

    future, prices. It is important to realize that money cannot

    be an abstract unit of account or claim, except insofar as it

    serves as a medium of exchange.*** [my emphasis]

    Crypto currencies, therefore, directly violate one of the main principles of monetary theory. The vast array of digital money, all with unique price ratios (to say the least of their volatility), would make economic calculation and rational planning next to impossible. In this sense, the current world of fiat dollars would be preferable to a Tower of Monetary Babel that digital currencies would create.

    ...
    Full article on link at top.

    ---

    I thought this would make for an interesting debate. Are purely digital currencies that are backed by nothing a Fiat Currency?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    https://antoniusaquinas.com/2017/10/...onetary-babel/



    Full article on link at top.

    ---

    I thought this would make for an interesting debate. Are purely digital currencies that are backed by nothing a Fiat Currency?
    No. By very definition a fiat currency is a currency imposed upon the people by government fiat, by law. All 900+ cryptocurrencies currently extant have arisen from the market, not government fiat, and therefore cannot justly be called fiat currency.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    No. By very definition a fiat currency is a currency imposed upon the people by government fiat, by law. All 900+ cryptocurrencies currently extant have arisen from the market, not government fiat, and therefore cannot justly be called fiat currency.
    Just playing Devils Advocate...

    US dollars used to be backed by gold, which gave them their value. What is a digital currency backed by?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Just playing Devils Advocate...

    US dollars used to be backed by gold, which gave them their value. What is a digital currency backed by?
    I think CCTelander's point is that "not being backed by anything" != "fiat"

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Just playing Devils Advocate...

    US dollars used to be backed by gold, which gave them their value. What is a digital currency backed by?
    This is what stops me from bitcoin. If I have excess FRN's to shed, silver and gold win every time.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Just playing Devils Advocate...

    US dollars used to be backed by gold, which gave them their value. What is a digital currency backed by?
    Digital currency has no inherent value and is only as valuable as people perceive it to be. The article is correct, it is backed by nothing. Sooner or later it will be worth nothing. There is so much that can go wrong with Bitcoin, including a better currency that perhaps has real value taking its place. That said, I'd be rich if I had went all in when I first heard of it.
    Last edited by William Tell; 10-18-2017 at 09:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  8. #7
    all value is subjective. Saying there is no intrinsic value, is not true.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kfarnan View Post
    all value is subjective. Saying there is no intrinsic value, is not true.
    Well, maybe I can convince you to pay $5,000 for a used golf ball. I doubt it, because it's a known quantity that you can compare it to other things and find out its value is right around zero. Bitcoin is a collection of digital numbers that has value because people read the name 'coin' and other people before them have said it has value. It only exists as a currency in the mind and in computers. You can't even hold it like a zinc penny. The value can potentially go through the stratosphere short term but what goes up must come down. An EMP for example would completely destroy bitcoin.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe






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  11. #9
    I don't see where they successfully argued the fundamental difference between bitcoin and gold that makes bitcoin unusable in the marketplace..

    He uses Rothbard's argument that gold can be stored and used in the future.. Wow, so can bitcoin. I have no idea why they were trying to say it is impossible to calculate bitcoin's value, I mean the value of gold fluctuates, the value of everything fluctuates.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    An EMP for example would completely destroy bitcoin.
    Uhh ya, you should definitely have some gold and silver in case of an EMP attack..

    Fortunately, because of bitcoin, I own more gold and silver than I would have had I only invested in gold and silver.. and I also have bitcoin.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    There is some real value to bitcoin because in order to create or mine them it takes copious amounts of energy.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    There is some real value to bitcoin because in order to create or mine them it takes copious amounts of energy.
    Ya, I mean, that's not why it has value, you could expend energy to mine something that is worthless.. but it is certainly evidence that it has value, and additionally much of the value that bitcoin holds is in its existing network infrastructure which are the miners.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #13
    How does Bitcoin go from it's current state to nearly universal use? If that path exists, then it will have value as a currency--I'm not seeing the path though. Compared to other currencies, you simply can't buy the same amount of goods with only Bitcoin. It doesn't look like acceptance is increasing either, but I could be wrong.
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    How does Bitcoin go from it's current state to nearly universal use? If that path exists, then it will have value as a currency--I'm not seeing the path though. Compared to other currencies, you simply can't buy the same amount of goods with only Bitcoin. It doesn't look like acceptance is increasing either, but I could be wrong.
    Ya it's not going to be a steady climb.. If more people wanted to leave the current banking system it would get bigger like that, but people don't seem to want that. So bitcoin, the sleeping giant, will wait until it crashes.

    I have a feeling it will get big in some small to medium sized country that has an economic crash and gain notoriety as a currency that way.. although it could very well be a large country too. It will be hard to stop after that.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    How does Bitcoin go from it's current state to nearly universal use? If that path exists, then it will have value as a currency--I'm not seeing the path though. Compared to other currencies, you simply can't buy the same amount of goods with only Bitcoin. It doesn't look like acceptance is increasing either, but I could be wrong.
    You may find a couple of hours of research into OpenBazaar will reveal some interesting answers to your questions.

    There is value in seller buyer relationships (peer to peer) -circumventing middlemen, hall monitors & thugs looking for handouts and what not.

    Backed by gold is good. Backed by gold with a block chain contract used for freedom is better.
    We will be screwed when government forces block chain that is not used for freedom -sorta like income reporting now. I think China is leading the block chain slavery, hard to keep up with it all.
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
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  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Well, maybe I can convince you to pay $5,000 for a used golf ball. I doubt it, because it's a known quantity that you can compare it to other things and find out its value is right around zero. Bitcoin is a collection of digital numbers that has value because people read the name 'coin' and other people before them have said it has value. It only exists as a currency in the mind and in computers. You can't even hold it like a zinc penny. The value can potentially go through the stratosphere short term but what goes up must come down. An EMP for example would completely destroy bitcoin.
    An EMP? Better make that lots and lots of EMPs. You'd have to take out the entire world Internet to destroy Bitcoin. Now if you just mean locally then sure, no computers or internet work in an area. No trading of Bitcoin. However fiat and gold wouldn't help out much in that situation either.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    How does Bitcoin go from it's current state to nearly universal use? If that path exists, then it will have value as a currency--I'm not seeing the path though. Compared to other currencies, you simply can't buy the same amount of goods with only Bitcoin. It doesn't look like acceptance is increasing either, but I could be wrong.
    It doesn't. The rise of bitcoin is about mainstreaming the notion of cryptocurrencies to the average dude/dudette and using Bitcoin buyer's dollars to develop the crypto network. Prince Alwaleed's comments today about BTC being like Enron are apt imo. What he means is siphoning up dollars from investors that are used to build out the infrastructure (Enron was energy infrastructure, Bitcoin is crypto infrastructure) then later unveiling that it was a book-cooking sham and the investment vehicle (Enron stock/Bitcoin) is actually worthless. The infrastructure that was financed by investors is still there afterwards but the investors lose their shirts. The infrastructure is taken over by other entities but those that paid to build it are screwed.

    (And like Enron, once the fraud is unveiled, the ones that benefit from the built out infrastructure will present the regulated "solution" to the problem. Enron's response was Sarbanes-Oxley. Expect something similar to come out of Congress when Bitcoin is exposed as a ponzi. Then, only sanctioned blockchain will be legal and the bankers will have their legal version ready for adoption. Makes me wonder if anyone realizes that coinbase's registered address is an empty store front in San Fran...)
    Last edited by devil21; 10-23-2017 at 07:11 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Just playing Devils Advocate...

    US dollars used to be backed by gold, which gave them their value. What is a digital currency backed by?
    Math & consensus if we're referring to a digital currency backed by a blockchain that honors limited supply.

    Digital nation-state fiat is literally backed by nothing if middlemen are required and allowed to tweak the numbers whenever they want.
    Last edited by muh_roads; 10-25-2017 at 12:09 PM.

  22. #19
    Bitcoin is unbacked but it is not a fiat-currency, that is, it did not come into being by government dictate (fiat). Bitcoin is produced on the market and is, therefore, a free-market money. Maybe it won't work. Maybe it will. But none of your tax dollars goes to pay for it and no matter how many people use Bitcoin, the value of your USD savings will not be negatively affected. The Federal Reserve, however, will continue printing money and siphoning away the purchasing power of your USD savings.

    The way to think about Bitcoin's "real-world value" is to start with something like subway tokens. A subway token clearly has value because you can use it for something - to get on the subway. But the token itself is of no intrinsic value. It's not very liquid, either - you probably can't use it to buy a hamburger. In its early stages, Bitcoin is a lot like a subway token. You can use it to purchase a wide variety of things - some from online sellers that directly accept Bitcoin, and some through online converters that accept Bitcoins and place an order in dollars, for a small fee. So, in its present state, it's a kind of super-subway-token. It clearly has value because you can exchange it for lots of real-world objects even though each bitcoin has no "intrinsic value" being nothing more than an entry in a digital ledger. It's not the most liquid currency, by a long shot. It's probably going to be a while before you can buy a Big Mac with Bitcoin. But if and when the transition comes, it will likely occur nearly overnight.

    The only negative effect of Bitcoin's unbacked status is that it is highly volatile, and we see that in the daily price fluctuations. It is conceivable that Bitcoin could experience a sudden "collapse of confidence" with holders, consumers and sellers fleeing for the exits all at once. But the more people who use Bitcoin, and the more kinds of things they use it for, the less likely this collapse becomes. This is not just an intuitive hunch, it's a logical argument based on the coincidence of wants. When enough different kinds of people use Bitcoin for enough different kinds of applications, one user's panic-sell simply becomes another user's golden opportunity. And so on. So Bitcoin will become more stable as it becomes more widely utilized, not less.

    One thing that Bitcoin definitely is not, is a pyramid-scheme. In a pyramid scheme, early adopters must convert their shares into new adopters to prevent the pyramid from collapsing in on itself. In short, they must recruit new members and those new members must recruit more, and so on. This is because the pyramid scheme is invariably promising some kind of impossible return-on-investment. When you buy some bitcoin, you don't need to get anybody else to buy bitcoin in order for your bitcoin to hold its value. Of course, you probably don't want people to leave Bitcoin but Bitcoin's value does not derive solely from its market capitalization, see above re. subway tokens. You don't want people to leave Bitcoin but you don't need them to stay (unlike a pyramid scheme). As long as enough people stay that the currency can be used for buying and selling real goods and services, then the currency will retain its basic use-value.

    The opportunity to mine Bitcoins has been open to anyone who wants to mine them since the currency was created. Of course, Satoshi Nakamoto got a head start on everybody else but he also took more risk than anybody else (by investing time and resources into creating the currency) and he has wisely left the bitcoins he mined untouched. I'm inclined to believe they will never be spent. You can still mine bitcoins, even today, although you will probably need to invest about $5-10k in the latest equipment and join a mining pool. Even after all 21 million bitcoins have been mined, you will still be able to earn money by mining blocks in exchange for transaction fees. I haven't been able to think of a more fair way to distribute an initial share in a digital asset like Bitcoin than the mining system that Bitcoin is using. Nakamoto could have defined all 21 million coins to belong to himself on day one and traded them away slowly as the network grew. But the system he built allows anyone with sufficient interest to get involved and try to make some money along the way.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 11-04-2017 at 12:49 AM. Reason: typo

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    One thing that Bitcoin definitely is not, is a pyramid-scheme. In a pyramid scheme, early adopters must convert their shares into new adopters to prevent the pyramid from collapsing in on itself. In short, they must recruit new members and those new members must recruit more, and so on. This is because the pyramid scheme is invariably promising some kind of impossible return-on-investment. When you buy some bitcoin, you don't need to get anybody else to buy bitcoin in order for your bitcoin to hold its value. Of course, you probably don't want people to leave Bitcoin but Bitcoin's value does not derive solely from its market capitalization, see above re. subway tokens. You don't want people to leave Bitcoin but you don't need them to stay (unlike a pyramid scheme). As long as enough people stay that the currency can be used for buying and selling real goods and services, then the currency will retain its basic use-value.
    Comment from an astute Zerohedge reader:

    I create two Pyramid coins and give them a $1 value.

    I split one into ten foundation coins and sell each for $.10, telling each buyer that if they split their coin into one hundred brick coins and sell them for one cent each, a foundation coin will be worth $1.

    If the Foundation sellers are able to sell 100 bricks at one cent each, my second Pyramid coin is now worth $10. A massive gain for doing nothing.

    Making $.89 profit off an initial investment of eleven cents is a pretty good deal and some people would want to buy more foundation coins. The market for pyramid coins is born.

    I tell brick owners to split each brick into 100 pebbles and sell them for one cent each. Now a Brick is worth $1 and a Foundation is worth $100. My Pyramid coin is worth $1000.

    Some enterprising brick owners start selling pebbles for two cents because the word of this brick going from one cent to one dollar gets out. Pyramid coin to $2000.

    The best part is I can just put a bid in for five cents for a Pebble and drive a Pyramid coin to $5000 with a five cent investment. With almost no effort I have made myself astonishing gains without having to do much of anything at all.

    And there you have Cryptocurrencies.
    It's pretty much the definition of a pyramid scheme and how/why the price is going parabolic.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    It's pretty much the definition of a pyramid scheme and how/why the price is going parabolic.
    The only difference from a typical pyramid scheme is the glacial pace with which it unfolds. It is like watching a trainwreck at 1/100,000 of the actual speed.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Comment from an astute Zerohedge reader:

    I create two Pyramid coins and give them a $1 value.

    ...

    And there you have Cryptocurrencies.

    It's pretty much the definition of a pyramid scheme and how/why the price is going parabolic.
    That description doesn't resemble Bitcoin or any other respectable crypto at all. The pyramid scheme described above requires more and more "shares" to be created (whether through subdivision, or otherwise).

    Bitcoin is just one share (divided into 21 million pieces), being auctioned off through the mining process. These shares can be subdivided but nobody needs to subdivide them for any reason. In fact, subdivision becomes useless once you divide the value below the level where it is worth paying transaction fees. The reason Bitcoin has value is not because you can "buy low and convince the next fool to buy high". Rather, the reason Bitcoin is valued is for its use as a secure, public, digital ledger with zero long-term inflation.

    It's silly to recast the meteoric rise in Bitcoin's price throughout 2017 as a "pyramid scheme" rather than as a sincere rise in demand for an inflation-proof medium of exchange that can be used digitally (gold/silver are not inflatable by money-printing but they face serious obstacles to competing with digital systems like ATMs and credit cards). If you think Bitcoin is like the pyramid scheme described above you are simply ignorant about Bitcoin. Here's a video introduction to what Bitcoin is and how it works:


  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    It's silly to recast the meteoric rise in Bitcoin's price throughout 2017 as a "pyramid scheme" rather than as a sincere rise in demand for an inflation-proof medium of exchange that can be used digitally

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Comment from an astute Zerohedge reader:

    It's pretty much the definition of a pyramid scheme and how/why the price is going parabolic.
    >>>I create two Pyramid coins and give them a $1 value.

    You don't give them a $1 value, the market does. The rest of what he said doesn't apply after that point because he's retarded.

    >>>And there you have Cryptocurrencies.

    And there you have another salty no-coiner zerohedger.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    What is he in denial about? Coinbase is now adding 100,000 new users every day.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by muh_roads View Post
    >>>I create two Pyramid coins and give them a $1 value.

    You don't give them a $1 value, the market does. The rest of what he said doesn't apply after that point because he's retarded.

    >>>And there you have Cryptocurrencies.

    And there you have another salty no-coiner zerohedger.
    Is that you tmosley? lol

    One thing I love about the bitcoin posts at ZH (and the net in general) is how religious the bitcoin crew is about it all. Criticism of any sort or presentation of narratives that don't genuflect at the alter of the elusive Mr. Satoshi are met with pure venom. It's all rather odd to me how people can get so worked up over something that doesn't even tangibly exist. Though, I suspect most of it comes from the massive delusion that bitcoiners have sold themselves that they, too, will be fabulously wealthy, at some future point, like the bankers they claim to hate so much.
    Last edited by devil21; 11-06-2017 at 09:50 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    how religious the bitcoin crew is about it all.
    I'm the opposite of religious about Bitcoin. I have been following digital currencies since well before 2009 when Bitcoin was launched and I have cautiously monitored its growth. It took me a while to be convinced of the basic idea and I don't blame anyone else who doesn't get it - it's certainly not obvious.

    something that doesn't even tangibly exist.
    Bank accounts don't tangibly exist. 90+% of the world's assets do not tangibly exist.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I'm the opposite of religious about Bitcoin. I have been following digital currencies since well before 2009 when Bitcoin was launched and I have cautiously monitored its growth. It took me a while to be convinced of the basic idea and I don't blame anyone else who doesn't get it - it's certainly not obvious.
    It's not about "getting it" or not. It's about knowing what is real and what is not.

    Bank accounts don't tangibly exist. 90+% of the world's assets do not tangibly exist.
    That's not much of a counter-point. More an example of how effective the economic mind control is. Bitcoin/blockchain takes it to the next level, representing the banker's dream of a purely digital economy where no payment or wage is real (read: slave laborers) but every interaction is tracked and people are completely economically (mind) controlled.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Is that you tmosley? lol

    One thing I love about the bitcoin posts at ZH (and the net in general) is how religious the bitcoin crew is about it all. Criticism of any sort or presentation of narratives that don't genuflect at the alter of the elusive Mr. Satoshi are met with pure venom. It's all rather odd to me how people can get so worked up over something that doesn't even tangibly exist. Though, I suspect most of it comes from the massive delusion that bitcoiners have sold themselves that they, too, will be fabulously wealthy, at some future point, like the bankers they claim to hate so much.
    you are salty bro..

    Try using a crypto coin. Its liberating. Litecoin is cheap and no big fees. Once you understand how it works, there is no going back. ALL NAYSAYERS who tried transacting in crypto NEVER WENT BACK! I converted a few already. Many smart people keep saying no. but none of those have tried it yet, using all arguments possible NOT TO TRY IT.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Is that you tmosley? lol

    One thing I love about the bitcoin posts at ZH (and the net in general) is how religious the bitcoin crew is about it all. Criticism of any sort or presentation of narratives that don't genuflect at the alter of the elusive Mr. Satoshi are met with pure venom. It's all rather odd to me how people can get so worked up over something that doesn't even tangibly exist. Though, I suspect most of it comes from the massive delusion that bitcoiners have sold themselves that they, too, will be fabulously wealthy, at some future point, like the bankers they claim to hate so much.
    I don't hate the bankers for being wealthy, I hate how they achieved that wealth.

    If you are still comparing nation-state digital USD to a decentralized ledger that keeps track of the supply, you are not well informed on bitcoin.

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