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Thread: Alt. Right "Blood & Soil" Types Are Opposed To Western Civilization

  1. #1

    Default Alt. Right "Blood & Soil" Types Are Opposed To Western Civilization

    The pathetic fact of the Alt. Right, and all those nationalist "Blood and Soil" types, is that for all their proclaimed love and defense of "Western Culture" their nationalism, racism, and economic isolationism is in direct conflict with Western cultures's greatest ideals- individualism, universal natural rights, and free market capitalism. The Alt. Right literally has no clue what it is talking about. Libertarianism and individual liberty are the products of the forward march of "Western Civilization" and their ideas are the social regression of the West back to the era of barbarian tribalism and totalitarian absolutists. They are the opposite of civilization, Western or otherwise.

    What are the differences in outlook between alt-right ideology and libertarianism?

    1. The Driving Force of History

    Every ideology has a theory of history, some sense of a driving theme that causes episodic movements from one stage to another. Such a theory helps us make sense of the past, present, and future. The libertarian theme of history is beautifully articulated by Murray Rothbard:

    My own basic perspective on the history of man...is to place central importance on the great conflict which is eternally waged between Liberty and Power... I see the liberty of the individual not only as a great moral good in itself (or, with Lord Acton, as the highest political good), but also as the necessary condition for the flowering of all the other goods that mankind cherishes: moral virtue, civilization, the arts and sciences, economic prosperity. Out of liberty, then, stem the glories of civilized life.

    There it is: liberty vs. power. Liberty unleashes human energy and builds civilization. Anything that interferes with the progress of liberty impedes the progress of humanity. One crowds out the other. The political (or anti-political) goal is clear: diminish power (which means reducing unjust violence) and enhance liberty.

    Frédéric Bastiat described the free society as characterized by a “harmony of interests.”
    What is the alt-right theory of history? The movement inherits a long and dreary tradition of thought from Friedrich Hegel to Thomas Carlyle to Oswald Spengler to Madison Grant to Othmar Spann to Giovanni Gentile to Carl Schmitt to Trump’s speeches. This tradition sees something else going on in history: not liberty vs. power, but something like a more meta struggle that concerns impersonal collectives of tribe, race, community, great men, and so on.

    Whereas libertarianism speaks of individual choice, alt-right theory draws attention to collectives on the move. It imagines that despite appearances, we all default in our thinking back to some more fundamental instinct about our identity as a people, which is either being shored up by a more intense consciousness or eroded by a deracination and dispossession from what defines us. To criticize this as racist is often true but superficial. What’s really going on here is the depersonalization of history itself: the principle that we are all being buffeted about by Olympian historical forces beyond our control as mere individuals. Each of us only matters when our uniqueness is submerged to a group. This group in turn calls forth a leader. It takes something mighty and ominous like a great leader, an embodiment of one of these great forces, to make a dent in history’s narrative.

    2. Harmony vs. Conflict

    A related issue concerns our capacity to get along with each other. Frédéric Bastiat described the free society as characterized by a “harmony of interests.” In order to overcome the state of nature, we gradually discover the capacity to find value in each other. The division of labor is the great fact of human community: the labor of each of us becomes more productive in cooperation with others, and this is even, or rather especially, true given the unequal distribution of talents, intelligence, and skills, and differences over religion, belief systems, race, language, and so on.

    And truly, this is a beautiful thing to discover. The libertarian marvels at the cooperation we see in a construction project, an office building, a restaurant, a factory, a shopping mall, to say nothing of a city, a country, or a planet. The harmony of interests doesn’t mean that everyone gets along perfectly, but rather that we inhabit institutions that incentivize progress through ever more cooperative behavior. As the liberals of old say, we believe that the “brotherhood of man” is possible.

    The libertarian believes that the best and most wonderful social outcomes are not those planned, structured, and anticipated, but rather the opposite.
    To the alt-right mind, this all seems ridiculous. Sure, shopping is fine. But what actually characterizes human association is deep-rooted conflict. The races are secretly at war, intellectually and genetically. There is an ongoing and perpetual conflict between the sexes. People of different religions must fight and always will, until one wins. Nations fight for a reason: the struggle is real.

    Some argue that war is what defines us and even gives life meaning, and, in that sense, is glorious and celebratory. For this reason, all nations must aspire toward homogeneity in stock, religion, and so on, and, as for the sexes, there must be dominance, because cooperation is an illusion.

    Maybe you notice a certain commonality with the left here. In the 19th century, the Marxists whipped themselves up in a frenzy about the allegedly inherent conflict between labor and capital. Their successors fret incessantly about race, ethnicity, ability, gender, and so on, pushing Marxian conflict theory into ever more exotic realms. Ludwig von Mises captured this parallel brilliantly when he wrote, “Nationalist ideology divides society vertically; the socialist ideology divides society horizontally.” Here, as with many other areas, the far right and far left are strangely aligned.

    3. Designed vs. Spontaneous Order

    The libertarian believes that the best and most wonderful social outcomes are not those planned, structured, and anticipated, but rather the opposite. Society is the result of millions and billions of small acts of rational self interest that are channelled into an undesigned, unplanned, and unanticipated order that cannot be conceived by a single mind. The knowledge that is required to put together a functioning social order is conveyed through institutions: prices, manners, mores, habits, and traditions that no one can consciously will into existence. There must be a process in place, and stable rules governing that process, that permit such institutions to evolve, always in deference to the immutable laws of economics.

    Again, the alt-right mind finds all of this uninspired and uninspiring. Society in their conception is built by the will of great thinkers and great leaders with unconstrained visions of what can be. What we see out there operating in society is a result of someone’s intentional and conscious planning from the top down.

    If we cannot find the source, or if the source is somehow hiding, we imagine that it must be some shadowy group out there that is manipulating outcomes – and hence the alt-right’s obsession with conspiracy theory. The course of history is designed by someone, so “we” might as well engage in the great struggle to seize the controls – and hence the alt-right obsession with politics as a contact sport.

    Oh, and, by the way, economics is a dismal science.

    4. Trade and Migration

    The libertarian celebrates the profound changes in the world from the late Middle Ages to the age of laissez faire, because we observed how commercial society broke down the barriers of class, race, and social isolation, bringing rights and dignity to ever more people.
    Of course the classical liberals fought for free trade and free migration of peoples, seeing national borders as arbitrary lines on a map that mercifully restrain the power of the state but otherwise inhibit the progress of prosperity and civilization. To think globally is not a bad thing, but a sign of enlightenment. Protectionism is nothing but a tax on consumers that inhibits industrial productivity and sets nations at odds with each other. The market process is a worldwide phenomenon that indicates an expansion of the division of labor, which means a progressive capacity of people to enhance their standard of living and ennoble their lives.

    The alt-right is universally opposed to free trade and free migration. You can always tell a writer is dabbling in alt-right thought (or neoreactionary or Dark Enlightenment or outright fascism) if he or she has an intense focus on international trade as inherently bad or fraudulent or regrettable in some sense. To them, a nation must be strong enough to thrive as an independent unit, an economic sovereignty unto itself.

    Today, the alt-right has a particular beef with trade deals, not because they are unnecessarily complex or bureaucratic (which are good reasons to doubt their merit) but because of their meritorious capacity to facilitate international cooperation. And it is the same with immigration. Beginning at some point in the late 19th century, migration came to be seen as a profound threat to national identity, which invariably means racial identity.

    5. Emancipation and Progress

    The libertarian celebrates the profound changes in the world from the late Middle Ages to the age of laissez faire, because we observed how commercial society broke down the barriers of class, race, and social isolation, bringing rights and dignity to ever more people. Slavery was ended. Women were emancipated, as marriage evolved from conquest and dominance into a free relationship of partnership and consent. This is all a wonderful thing, because rights are universal, which is to say, they rightly belong to everyone equally. Anything that interferes with people’s choices holds them back and hobbles the progress of prosperity, peace, and human flourishing. This perspective necessarily makes the libertarian optimistic about humanity’s potential.

    The alt-right mind can’t bear this point of view, and regards it all as naive. What appears to be progress is actually loss: loss of culture, identity, and mission. They look back to what they imagine to be a golden age when elites ruled and peons obeyed. And thus we see the source of their romantic attachment to authority as the source of order, and the longing for authoritarian political rule. As for universal rights, forget it. Rights are granted by political communities and are completely contingent on culture. The ancients universally believed that some were born to serve and some to rule, and the alt-right embraces this perspective. Here again, identity is everything and the loss of identity is the greatest crime against self anyone can imagine.

    Conclusion

    The alt-right knows exactly who its enemies are, and the libertarians are among them.
    To be sure, as many commentators have pointed out, both libertarians and alt-rightist are deeply suspicious of democracy. This was not always the case. In the 19th century, the classical liberals generally had a favorable view of democracy, believing it to be the political analogy to choice in the marketplace. But here they imagined states that were local, rules that were fixed and clear, and democracy as a check on power. As states became huge, as power became total, and as rules became subject to pressure-group politics, the libertarian attitude toward democracy shifted.

    In contrast, the alt-right’s opposition to democracy traces to its loathing of the masses generally and its overarching suspicion of anything that smacks of equality. In other words, they tend to hate democracy for all the wrong reasons. This similarity is historically contingent and largely superficial given the vast differences that separate the two worldviews. Does society contain within itself the capacity for self management or not? That is the question.

    None of this will stop the mainstream media from lumping us all together, given that we share a dread of what has become of the left in politics today.

    But make no mistake: the alt-right knows exactly who its enemies are, and the libertarians are among them.

    https://fee.org/articles/five-differ...-libertarians/
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan



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  3. #2

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    Nobody is in the alt-right anymore. The alt-right used to be people who were concerned about immigration, maybe they weren't the biggest fans of the culture of their southern neighbors, but they weren't all or even mostly white nationalists or white supremacists. Back then, a lot of people were considered alt-right.

    The branding has totally changed to the extreme end of the spectrum, and nobody really uses it anymore because the number of people who fit the new description is incredibly tiny and insignificant.
    Last edited by dannno; 10-12-2017 at 02:53 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3

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    Is the alt-right still active within the liberty movement?
    Castle/Bradley 2016

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    I am a blood , soil and liberty kind of guy .

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    Freedom is far from universal. Look around. In fact, it's a rare commodity that infrequently rises above the pitfalls of the human condition. In order for liberty and freedom to thrive, certain precursors must be established beforehand.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    The pathetic fact of the Alt. Right, and all those nationalist "Blood and Soil" types, is that for all their proclaimed love and defense of "Western Culture" their nationalism, racism, and economic isolationism is in direct conflict with Western cultures's greatest ideals- individualism, universal natural rights, and free market capitalism. The Alt. Right literally has no clue what it is talking about. Libertarianism and individual liberty are the products of the forward march of "Western Civilization" and their ideas are the social regression of the West back to the era of barbarian tribalism and totalitarian absolutists. They are the opposite of civilization, Western or otherwise.



    I see you buy Hillary/Obama version of what alt-right is...

    I am a blood and soil type myself.

  8. #7

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    Liberty is a culture, if too many outsiders are let in too fast they will swamp that culture rather than learn it, then liberty dies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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    $#@! Richard Spencer with a Saints Row style dildo bat!
    Last edited by Lamp; 10-12-2017 at 02:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    Is the alt-right still active within the liberty movement?
    How could they be if, like I said, they don't really even exist anymore?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    I see you buy Hillary/Obama version of what alt-right is...

    I am a blood and soil type myself.
    Then I see you buy what the Mussolini/Roosevelt version of what Liberty is.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Freedom is far from universal. Look around. In fact, it's a rare commodity that infrequently rises above the pitfalls of the human condition. In order for liberty and freedom to thrive, certain precursors must be established beforehand.
    Freedom is far from universal. Mostly because of all the various types- from the "Progressive Left" to the "Alt. Right"- who want to drag us back down the road to serfdom. Freedom is a new idea in history and all the throwbacks are trying to force it to fit it into their narrow, bland little boxes. In its truest form it is a minority idea held by a minority of people.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Then I see you buy what the Mussolini/Roosevelt version of what Liberty is.
    From what?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty is a culture, if too many outsiders are let in too fast they will swamp that culture rather than learn it, then liberty dies.
    Liberty is an idea, and like all ideas it is trans-cultural and transnational. It has and does exist in all cultures. The problems are those, such as yourself, who would corrupt it to fit to to your narrow minded little tyranny. You would retard Western Civilization to maintain your barbarian mindset.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Liberty is an idea, and like all ideas it is trans-cultural and transnational. It has and does exist in all cultures. The problems are those, such as yourself, who would corrupt it to fit to to your narrow minded little tyranny. You would retard Western Civilization to maintain your barbarian mindset.
    Like signing an EO to create a free market for health care?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Liberty is an idea, and like all ideas it is trans-cultural and transnational. It has and does exist in all cultures. The problems are those, such as yourself, who would corrupt it to fit to to your narrow minded little tyranny. You would retard Western Civilization to maintain your barbarian mindset.
    Liberty can be part of any culture but it is rejected by most, those that embrace it must protect it from those who do not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Freedom is far from universal. Mostly because of all the various types- from the "Progressive Left" to the "Alt. Right"- who want to drag us back down the road to serfdom. Freedom is a new idea in history and all the throwbacks are trying to force it to fit it into their narrow, bland little boxes. In its truest form it is a minority idea held by a minority of people.
    I thought you were the one who likes to bring up ancient Chinese philosophers?

    Freedom as an idea is as old as creation, but it is unusual for a culture to embrace it, those that do must protect it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Like signing an EO to create a free market for health care?
    When you are dependent on the whims of the King for what you can and cannot do, you are a serf or a slave.

    And you cannot create a free market by signing an executive order. When the market is dependent on the king's edict it isn't free, it is subject to the whim of those in power, for blessing or cursing. That is slavery and the very definition of regulation.

    If you were free, if the market were free, it wouldn't matter what the current tyrant decides he wants to decree a she would have no power to force or compel in any manner.

    Politics are a fantastic way to divert you from these truths though. The false "Left v. Right" illusion is a great way to keep people dumb, divided, and content with their serfdom. When your master gives you a little piece of bread from the table you think yourself "better" when you are still totally dependent on the master himself. You become a happy little serf.

    Politics also makes you a hypocrite. How many times have you derided Obama for circumventing the Constitution's limitations that all law come from Congress and ordering something by fiat through an Executive Order? How many times did you complain about this as an attack on liberty? And now King Trump does it and you're defending him? Better lick the master's hands. Maybe he'll throw you a few more scrapes, maybe even a whole bone to chew on. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you are free, that you are anything more than a well kept pet.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I thought you were the one who likes to bring up ancient Chinese philosophers?

    Freedom as an idea is as old as creation, but it is unusual for a culture to embrace it, those that do must protect it.
    Freedom is the perpetually new idea. You can find it in every era of every culture, but it keeps having to be reborn. Mostly because those such as yourself keep trying to snuff it out to keep it from challenging your false traditions of servitude.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Freedom is the perpetually new idea. You can find it in every era of every culture, but it keeps having to be reborn. Mostly because those such as yourself keep trying to snuff it out to keep it from challenging your false traditions of servitude.
    Mostly because it is constantly overwhelmed by the hordes of humanity that reject it, a freedom culture is like a garden, if you don't pull the weeds and fence out the critters it doesn't last.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Politics also makes you a hypocrite. How many times have you derided Obama for circumventing the Constitution's limitations that all law come from Congress and ordering something by fiat through an Executive Order? How many times did you complain about this as an attack on liberty? And now King Trump does it and you're defending him? Better lick the master's hands. Maybe he'll throw you a few more scrapes, maybe even a whole bone to chew on. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you are free, that you are anything more than a well kept pet.
    There are areas where executive action is legal, and breaking the law to obey the "supreme law of the land" (the constitution) is different than breaking both.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    When you are dependent on the whims of the King for what you can and cannot do, you are a serf or a slave.

    And you cannot create a free market by signing an executive order. When the market is dependent on the king's edict it isn't free, it is subject to the whim of those in power, for blessing or cursing. That is slavery and the very definition of regulation.

    If you were free, if the market were free, it wouldn't matter what the current tyrant decides he wants to decree a she would have no power to force or compel in any manner.

    Politics are a fantastic way to divert you from these truths though. The false "Left v. Right" illusion is a great way to keep people dumb, divided, and content with their serfdom. When your master gives you a little piece of bread from the table you think yourself "better" when you are still totally dependent on the master himself. You become a happy little serf.

    Politics also makes you a hypocrite. How many times have you derided Obama for circumventing the Constitution's limitations that all law come from Congress and ordering something by fiat through an Executive Order? How many times did you complain about this as an attack on liberty? And now King Trump does it and you're defending him? Better lick the master's hands. Maybe he'll throw you a few more scrapes, maybe even a whole bone to chew on. Just don't delude yourself into thinking you are free, that you are anything more than a well kept pet.
    Um, ya... You remind me of my progressive friend who claims that people who want freedom are tyrants because they want to force freedom on other people. Lol..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am a blood , soil and liberty kind of guy .
    You can be one or the other, but not both.

    The real pathetic issue is that these barbarians that want to drag us back to their barbarian tribalism aren't even honest enough to admit that their ideas are what they are and try and steal the language of freedom. "Western ideals" have been humanism, universal rights, and individualism. "Blood and soil" is just another form of Leftist identity politics in direct opposition to "Western Civilization." "Blood" focuses on a false idea of ethnicity, creating an arbitrary definition of a group and then demanding conformity to that group. It rejects individualism and humanism for racial collectivism. "Soil" is a collectivization of the land. It violates property rights because it asserts communal control over private property, arguing that the group, or its representatives in whatever State they organize, have greater claim to control your private property than you do. "Blood and soil" therefore asserts the power of the "many" to absolutely control the person and property of others through collectivist ideas that reject individual person hood and individual rights, existing only as a total rejection of individualism and universal human rights and therefore a total rejection of "Western Civilization."
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are areas where executive action is legal, and breaking the law to obey the "supreme law of the land" (the constitution) is different than breaking both.
    So, violating the Constitution's limitations on presidential power is obeying the Constitution? That is the stupidest think I've ever heard. Are you Abraham Lincoln, somehow using the internet from beyond the grave?
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Um, ya... You remind me of my progressive friend who claims that people who want freedom are tyrants because they want to force freedom on other people. Lol..
    Is that "progressive friend" really just your reflection? Because defending a President using unconstitutional executive power to circumvent Congress in order to create laws to make things the way you think they should be -you know, what you're defending now- is the very essence of Progressivism. Meaning you are a Progressive.

    Oh, and in case you missed it, you aren't free. When you depend on teh whim of those in power you're a slave, not a man.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    You can be one or the other, but not both.

    The real pathetic issue is that these barbarians that want to drag us back to their barbarian tribalism aren't even honest enough to admit that their ideas are what they are and try and steal the language of freedom. "Western ideals" have been humanism, universal rights, and individualism. "Blood and soil" is just another form of Leftist identity politics in direct opposition to "Western Civilization." "Blood" focuses on a false idea of ethnicity, creating an arbitrary definition of a group and then demanding conformity to that group. It rejects individualism and humanism for racial collectivism. "Soil" is a collectivization of the land. It violates property rights because it asserts communal control over private property, arguing that the group, or its representatives in whatever State they organize, have greater claim to control your private property than you do. "Blood and soil" therefore asserts the power of the "many" to absolutely control the person and property of others through collectivist ideas that reject individual person hood and individual rights, existing only as a total rejection of individualism and universal human rights and therefore a total rejection of "Western Civilization."

    Well actually Bastiat himself identified as a leftist and the entire 18th century classical liberal tradition identified itself as part of the left until socialism came along soooooooooo....yeah.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Is that "progressive friend" really just your reflection? Because defending a President using unconstitutional executive power to circumvent Congress in order to create laws to make things the way you think they should be -you know, what you're defending now- is the very essence of Progressivism. Meaning you are a Progressive.

    Oh, and in case you missed it, you aren't free. When you depend on teh whim of those in power you're a slave, not a man.
    Oh ok, but if I exercise my "freedom" that we all have deep down inside, and end up in federal prison, then I'm "really" free right?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    So, violating the Constitution's limitations on presidential power is obeying the Constitution? That is the stupidest think I've ever heard. Are you Abraham Lincoln, somehow using the internet from beyond the grave?
    Instructing the executive branch to not obey unconstitutional laws is following the constitution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Mostly because it is constantly overwhelmed by the hordes of humanity that reject it, a freedom culture is like a garden, if you don't pull the weeds and fence out the critters it doesn't last.
    I suppose you would know a lot about barbarians rejecting freedom as that is what you champion.

    But no, it isn't because it has been overwhelmed by the "hordes of humanity." Rather it is because liberty is a new idea every time. And people are uneducated in it and afraid. They would rather grasp onto their ancient tribalism ("blood") and territorial isolation ("soil") than embrace the dangers and blessings of being free. The great march of history though is towards greater and greater liberty, and you can see its progress etched across the whole of human history even as it has floundered in some areas. As civilization grows the tribal barbarisms of the past become obsolete.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    I suppose you would know a lot about barbarians rejecting freedom as that is what you champion.

    But no, it isn't because it has been overwhelmed by the "hordes of humanity." Rather it is because liberty is a new idea every time. And people are uneducated in it and afraid. They would rather grasp onto their ancient tribalism ("blood") and territorial isolation ("soil") than embrace the dangers and blessings of being free. The great march of history though is towards greater and greater liberty, and you can see its progress etched across the whole of human history even as it has floundered in some areas. As civilization grows the tribal barbarisms of the past become obsolete.
    And why does freedom need to be reborn? Because people keep killing it, the vast majority of mankind don't want freedom and they kill it with depressing regularity.
    Even your definition of freedom would need an area to call it's own while it tried to expand it's territory to reach the entire globe through education.

    And LOL at the idea that the world is getting freer than it used to be, the world has had it's ups and downs but we are reaching unplumbed depths in modern times and it just keeps getting worse.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Instructing the executive branch to not obey unconstitutional laws is following the constitution.
    The President doesn't even have the power to issue such orders in the Constitution.

    Further, using executive authority to circumvent and nullify the law is a violation of the Constitution. In regards to the law the President has three powers: to veto a proposed law, to pardon convicted violators of the law, and to enforce the current law.

    Only Congress has the power to create or alter the law. When the President engages in such activity it is unconstitutional as he is assuming the powers held by Congress.

    This order allows for insurance companies to form and operate that are currently illegal under the ACA. This means Trump is essentially creating a new law by fiat order, nullifying previous law by fiat order, and then using his position to force that law into action. In this he usurps Congressional power to create and alter law along with the Judicial power to abolish law.

    Whatever you think of the ACA, and I despise it, this is nothing but another blatant violation of the US Constitution and further expansion of the centralized power of the Presidency. No constitutionalist could applaud this, but like all other Progressives you are a constitutionalist only when it is convenient. When it isn't you violate it and ignore it.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

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