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Thread: California becomes 'sanctuary state'

  1. #1

    Default California becomes 'sanctuary state'

    Gov. Jerry Brown signed landmark “sanctuary state” legislation Thursday, vastly limiting who state and local law enforcement agencies can hold, question and transfer at the request of federal immigration authorities.Senate Bill 54, which takes effect in January, has been blasted as “unconscionable” by U.S. Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions, becoming the focus of a national debate over how far states and cities can go to prevent their officers from enforcing federal immigration laws. Supporters have hailed it as part of a broader effort by majority Democrats in the California Legislature to shield more than 2.3 million immigrants living illegally in the state.
    Brown took the unusual step of writing a signing message in support of SB 54. He called the legislation a balanced measure that would allow police and sheriff’s agencies to continue targeting dangerous criminals, while protecting hardworking families without legal residency in the country.
    “In enshrining these new protections, it is important to note what the bill does not do,” Brown wrote. “This bill does not prevent or prohibit Immigration and Customs Enforcement or the Department of Homeland Security from doing their own work in any way.”
    Legal experts have said federal officials may try to block the law in court to keep it from being implemented. Some doubt such challenges would be successful, pointing to the 10th Amendment and previous rulings in which courts have found the federal government can’t compel local authorities to enforce federal laws.
    On Thursday, Department of Justice spokesman Devin O'Malley declined to comment on the agency’s next move. Asked whether the administration would attempt to block the state law, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said that federal officials “are spending every day we can trying to find the best way forward.
    “The president will be laying out his responsible immigration plan over the next week,” she said. “And I hope that California will push back on their governor’s, I think, irresponsible decision moving forward.”
    Brown’s decision comes as local and state governments are locked in legal battles with Sessions over his move to slash federal grant funding from “sanctuary jurisdictions,” where city and county agencies are limited when working with federal immigration officials. A Chicago federal judge largely blocked Sessions’ effort just hours before SB 54 cleared the Legislature on Sept. 16.

    More at: http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...005-story.html


    Hopefully they will secede when they lose the federal grants.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2

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    I have mixed feelings as a proponent of State nullification powers/10th and a chained down Fed
    while a simultaneous proponent of border controls and stricter immigration enforcement and prosecution.
    It's a real tug o war.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    I have mixed feelings as a proponent of State nullification powers/10th and a chained down Fed
    while a simultaneous proponent of border controls and stricter immigration enforcement and prosecution.
    It's a real tug o war.
    Nullification is only for unconstitutional laws:

    Article. VI.

    ...This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding...
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4

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    LOL Dems now champions of the 10th Amendment!

  6. #5

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    So, some Mexicans get to not be deported..

    Big whoop

    What actually matters...?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #6

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    Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill into law Thursday to expand workplace protections for employees who came to the U.S. illegally, part of the state’s response to the Trump administration's call for greater immigration enforcement.
    The bill by Assemblyman David Chiu (D-San Francisco) prohibits employers from allowing federal immigration agents on private business property without a judicial warrant. It also requires business owners to give their employees public notice — within 72 hours — of federal immigration inspections of employee records.

    Businesses that fail to provide notice to employees face penalties of $2,000 to $5,000 for a first violation, and $5,000 to $10,000 for each subsequent violation, though some exceptions may apply.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/ice-threatens-more-apos-collateral-202629604.html


    ICE chief threatens ‘at-large arrests’ after Calif. creates state sanctuary

    The Trump administration will go after undocumented immigrants in their neighborhoods and at work in California, likely picking up “collateral” they were not initially targeting, after the state’s new “sanctuary” law goes into effect, Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Tom Homan said Friday.His statement was a condemnation of the law, which Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown signed on Thursday, but also reads like a threat to undocumented immigrants in California. While the law was passed to protect them, ICE is now saying they are even more at risk of deportation and being separated from their families.
    “ICE will have no choice but to conduct at-large arrests in local neighborhoods and at worksites, which will inevitably result in additional collateral arrests, instead of focusing on arrests at jails and prisons where transfers are safer for ICE officers and the community,” Homan said in a statement. “ICE will also likely have to detain individuals arrested in California in detention facilities outside of the state, far from any family they may have in California.”

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/cbcf99d...8at-large.html
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 10-06-2017 at 09:51 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    LOL Dems now champions of the 10th Amendment!
    And Reps suddenly against it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    And Reps suddenly against it...
    What parts of Article. VI., Article I section 9 and Article IV section 4 don't you understand?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What parts of Article. VI., Article I section 9 and Article IV section 4 don't you understand?
    The part where it says local police are federal immigration agents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    The part where it says local police are federal immigration agents.
    Article. VI.

    ...This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding...


    It's called the rule of law, you can't just ignore the ones you don't like.

    If they REALLY don't like immigration law they should go through with CALExit, they just need to be prepared to lose the red counties, It's what should have happened about the fugitive slave laws in the 19th century, the North should have left and formed their own Union and let the south be. (Note that I agree that the fugitive slave laws and slavery were bad, and even if I support immigration law I will happily allow the DPRKalifornia to let anyone in that they want once they leave)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #11

    Default

    Traitor Brown needs to be recalled and forced to move to NY, NY!

    California Constitution, A.III, S.1: The State of California is an inseparable part of the United States of America, and the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

    Ibid, S.3.5. An administrative agency, including an administrative agency created by the Constitution or an initiative statute, has no power:
    (a) To declare a statute unenforceable, or refuse to enforce a statute, on the basis of it being unconstitutional unless an appellate court has made a determination that such statute is unconstitutional;
    (b) To declare a statute unconstitutional;
    (c) To declare a statute unenforceable, or to refuse to enforce a statute on the basis that federal law or federal regulations prohibit the enforcement of such statute unless an appellate court has made a determination that the enforcement of such statute is prohibited by federal law or federal regulations.

    Cal. Gov. Code, Sec. 1360. Unless otherwise provided, before any officer enters on the duties of his office, he shall take and subscribe the oath or affirmation set forth in Section 3 of Article XX of the Constitution of California.

    California Constitution, A.XX, S.3. Members of the Legislature, and all public officers and employees, executive, legislative, and judicial, except such inferior officers and employees as may be by law exempted, shall, before they enter upon the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation:

    “I, ___________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I am about to enter.

    “And I do further swear (or affirm) that I do not advocate, nor am I a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that now advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means; that within the five years immediately preceding the taking of this oath (or affirmation) I have not been a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocated the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means except as follows:

    _____ (If no affiliations, write in the words “No Exceptions”) _____
    and that during such time as I hold the office of _____ (name of office) _____

    I will not advocate nor become a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means.”

    Cal. Gov. Code, Sec. 1369. Every person having taken and subscribed to the oath or affirmation required by this chapter, who while holding office, advocates or becomes a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the government of the United States by force or violence or other unlawful means, is guilty of a felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code.

    Ibid, Sec. 3109. Every person having taken and subscribed to the oath or affirmation required by this chapter, who, while in the employ of, or service with, the state or any county, city, city and county, state agency, public district, or disaster council or emergency organization advocates or becomes a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the government of the United States by force or violence or other unlawful means, is guilty of a felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code.

    U.S. Constitution, A.I,S.8,C.4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization...

    Ibid, Article XIV (Amendment 14 - Rights Guaranteed: Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process, and Equal Protection)
    1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Last edited by Weston White; 10-07-2017 at 12:00 AM.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  13. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It's called the rule of law, you can't just ignore the ones you don't like.
    Based on the rule of law, who has the legal authority to enforce immigration law and detain aliens?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Based on the rule of law, who has the legal authority to enforce immigration law and detain aliens?
    State and local law enforcement and federal law enforcement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    Traitor Brown needs to be recalled and forced to move to NY, NY!

    California Constitution, A.III, S.1: The State of California is an inseparable part of the United States of America, and the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

    Ibid, S.3.5. An administrative agency, including an administrative agency created by the Constitution or an initiative statute, has no power:
    (a) To declare a statute unenforceable, or refuse to enforce a statute, on the basis of it being unconstitutional unless an appellate court has made a determination that such statute is unconstitutional;
    (b) To declare a statute unconstitutional;
    (c) To declare a statute unenforceable, or to refuse to enforce a statute on the basis that federal law or federal regulations prohibit the enforcement of such statute unless an appellate court has made a determination that the enforcement of such statute is prohibited by federal law or federal regulations.

    Cal. Gov. Code, Sec. 1360. Unless otherwise provided, before any officer enters on the duties of his office, he shall take and subscribe the oath or affirmation set forth in Section 3 of Article XX of the Constitution of California.

    U.S. Constitution, A.XX,S. 3. Members of the Legislature, and all public officers and employees, executive, legislative, and judicial, except such inferior officers and employees as may be by law exempted, shall, before they enter upon the duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe the following oath or affirmation:

    “I, ___________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of California; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I am about to enter.

    “And I do further swear (or affirm) that I do not advocate, nor am I a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that now advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means; that within the five years immediately preceding the taking of this oath (or affirmation) I have not been a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocated the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means except as follows:

    _____ (If no affiliations, write in the words “No Exceptions”) _____
    and that during such time as I hold the office of _____ (name of office) _____

    I will not advocate nor become a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the Government of the United States or of the State of California by force or violence or other unlawful means.”

    Cal. Gov. Code, Sec. 1369. Every person having taken and subscribed to the oath or affirmation required by this chapter, who while holding office, advocates or becomes a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the government of the United States by force or violence or other unlawful means, is guilty of a felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code.

    Ibid, Sec. 3109. Every person having taken and subscribed to the oath or affirmation required by this chapter, who, while in the employ of, or service with, the state or any county, city, city and county, state agency, public district, or disaster council or emergency organization advocates or becomes a member of any party or organization, political or otherwise, that advocates the overthrow of the government of the United States by force or violence or other unlawful means, is guilty of a felony, and is punishable by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code.

    U.S. Constitution, A.I,S.8,C.4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization...

    Ibid, Article XIV (Amendment 14 - Rights Guaranteed: Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process, and Equal Protection)
    1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    @TheCount

    They are violating their state constitution, there are parts of it I don't like but if they don't like them they need to change them, just like if they don't like constitutional federal law they need to leave the union.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    State and local law enforcement and federal law enforcement.
    Don't just ignore the laws you don't like. They're all important.

    Start with title 8 chapter 12 and move on from there. Who has the legal authority to enforce immigration law and detain aliens?
    Last edited by TheCount; 10-06-2017 at 11:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Don't just ignore the laws you don't like. They're all important.

    Start with title 8 chapter 12 and move on from there. Who has the legal authority to enforce immigration law and detain aliens?


    Protip: It's none of the three groups you mentioned
    Who do you claim it is?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Don't just ignore the laws you don't like. They're all important.

    Start with title 8 chapter 12 and move on from there. Who has the legal authority to enforce immigration law and detain aliens?
    Ghostbusters? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe93CLbHjxQ
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Don't just ignore the laws you don't like. They're all important.

    Start with title 8 chapter 12 and move on from there. Who has the legal authority to enforce immigration law and detain aliens?
    (a) Secretary of Homeland Security (1) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall be charged with the administration and enforcement of this chapter and all other laws relating to the immigration and naturalization of aliens, except insofar as this chapter or such laws relate to the powers, functions, and duties conferred upon the President, Attorney General, the Secretary of State, the officers of the Department of State, or diplomatic or consular officers: Provided, however, That determination and ruling by the Attorney General with respect to all questions of law shall be controlling.

    (2) He shall have control, direction, and supervision of all employees and of all the files and records of the Service.

    (3) He shall establish such regulations; prescribe such forms of bond, reports, entries, and other papers; issue such instructions; and perform such other acts as he deems necessary for carrying out his authority under the provisions of this chapter.

    (4) He may require or authorize any employee of the Service or the Department of Justice to perform or exercise any of the powers, privileges, or duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder upon any other employee of the Service.

    (5) He shall have the power and duty to control and guard the boundaries and borders of the United States against the illegal entry of aliens and shall, in his discretion, appoint for that purpose such number of employees of the Service as to him shall appear necessary and proper.

    (6) He is authorized to confer or impose upon any employee of the United States, with the consent of the head of the Department or other independent establishment under whose jurisdiction the employee is serving, any of the powers, privileges, or duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder upon officers or employees of the Service.

    (7) He may, with the concurrence of the Secretary of State, establish offices of the Service in foreign countries; and, after consultation with the Secretary of State, he may, whenever in his judgment such action may be necessary to accomplish the purposes of this chapter, detail employees of the Service for duty in foreign countries.

    (8) After consultation with the Secretary of State, the Attorney General may authorize officers of a foreign country to be stationed at preclearance facilities in the United States for the purpose of ensuring that persons traveling from or through the United States to that foreign country comply with that country’s immigration and related laws.

    (9) Those officers may exercise such authority and perform such duties as United Statesimmigration officers are authorized to exercise and perform in that foreign country under reciprocal agreement, and they shall enjoy such reasonable privileges and immunities necessary for the performance of their duties as the government of their country extends to United States immigration officers.

    (10) In the event the Attorney General determines that an actual or imminent mass influx of aliens arriving off the coast of the United States, or near a land border, presents urgent circumstances requiring an immediate Federal response, the Attorney General may authorize any State or local law enforcement officer, with the consent of the head of the department, agency, or establishment under whose jurisdiction the individual is serving, to perform or exercise any of the powers, privileges, or duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder upon officers or employees of the Service.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1103


    Short version: ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS THAT THE FEDS WANT TO DO IT
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    @TheCount

    They are violating their state constitution, there are parts of it I don't like but if they don't like them they need to change them, just like if they don't like constitutional federal law they need to leave the union.
    Can you show me the part of Title 8 which obligates or forces the states to do anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    (a) Secretary of Homeland Security (1) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall be charged with the administration and enforcement of this chapter and all other laws relating to the immigration and naturalization of aliens, except insofar as this chapter or such laws relate to the powers, functions, and duties conferred upon the President, Attorney General, the Secretary of State, the officers of the Department of State, or diplomatic or consular officers: Provided, however, That determination and ruling by the Attorney General with respect to all questions of law shall be controlling.

    (2) He shall have control, direction, and supervision of all employees and of all the files and records of the Service.

    (3) He shall establish such regulations; prescribe such forms of bond, reports, entries, and other papers; issue such instructions; and perform such other acts as he deems necessary for carrying out his authority under the provisions of this chapter.

    (4) He may require or authorize any employee of the Service or the Department of Justice to perform or exercise any of the powers, privileges, or duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder upon any other employee of the Service.

    (5) He shall have the power and duty to control and guard the boundaries and borders of the United States against the illegal entry of aliens and shall, in his discretion, appoint for that purpose such number of employees of the Service as to him shall appear necessary and proper.

    (6) He is authorized to confer or impose upon any employee of the United States, with the consent of the head of the Department or other independent establishment under whose jurisdiction the employee is serving, any of the powers, privileges, or duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder upon officers or employees of the Service.

    (7) He may, with the concurrence of the Secretary of State, establish offices of the Service in foreign countries; and, after consultation with the Secretary of State, he may, whenever in his judgment such action may be necessary to accomplish the purposes of this chapter, detail employees of the Service for duty in foreign countries.

    (8) After consultation with the Secretary of State, the Attorney General may authorize officers of a foreign country to be stationed at preclearance facilities in the United States for the purpose of ensuring that persons traveling from or through the United States to that foreign country comply with that country’s immigration and related laws.

    (9) Those officers may exercise such authority and perform such duties as United Statesimmigration officers are authorized to exercise and perform in that foreign country under reciprocal agreement, and they shall enjoy such reasonable privileges and immunities necessary for the performance of their duties as the government of their country extends to United States immigration officers.

    (10) In the event the Attorney General determines that an actual or imminent mass influx of aliens arriving off the coast of the United States, or near a land border, presents urgent circumstances requiring an immediate Federal response, the Attorney General may authorize any State or local law enforcement officer, with the consent of the head of the department, agency, or establishment under whose jurisdiction the individual is serving, to perform or exercise any of the powers, privileges, or duties conferred or imposed by this chapter or regulations issued thereunder upon officers or employees of the Service.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1103


    Short version: ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS THAT THE FEDS WANT TO DO IT
    Don't be lazy; actually read the thing you're quoting. Only one subsection refers to state or local government employees, and that subsection explicitly requires the consent of that level of government. Which the new California law forbids.

    Keep reading. Maybe somewhere in there you'll find a section which actually supports you. Or maybe you'll change your mind about the importance of all laws and decide that you only support the laws which you imagine exist rather than the laws which actually exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Can you show me the part of Title 8 which obligates or forces the states to do anything?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  23. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Can you show me the part of Title 8 which obligates or forces the states to do anything?
    It is found by their oath of affirmation and hence sworn duty to serve and protect the U.S. Constitution and laws established thereunder, not to cherry pick those which further their own ideologies or political agendas.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Don't be lazy; actually read the thing you're quoting. Only one subsection refers to state or local government employees, and that subsection explicitly requires the consent of that level of government. Which the new California law forbids.

    Keep reading. Maybe somewhere in there you'll find a section which actually supports you. Or maybe you'll change your mind about the importance of all laws and decide that you only support the laws which you imagine exist rather than the laws which actually exist.
    California Constitution, A.III, S.1: The State of California is an inseparable part of the United States of America, and the United States Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

    Ibid, S.3.5. An administrative agency, including an administrative agency created by the Constitution or an initiative statute, has no power:
    (a) To declare a statute unenforceable, or refuse to enforce a statute, on the basis of it being unconstitutional unless an appellate court has made a determination that such statute is unconstitutional;
    (b) To declare a statute unconstitutional;
    (c) To declare a statute unenforceable, or to refuse to enforce a statute on the basis that federal law or federal regulations prohibit the enforcement of such statute unless an appellate court has made a determination that the enforcement of such statute is prohibited by federal law or federal regulations.


    Some other states might be able to make the claim that they can forbid "the head of the department, agency, or establishment under whose jurisdiction the individual is serving" from consenting but California can't, it is bound by it's own constitution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ibid, S.3.5. An administrative agency, including an administrative agency created by the Constitution or an initiative statute, has no power:
    (a) To declare a statute unenforceable, or refuse to enforce a statute, on the basis of it being unconstitutional unless an appellate court has made a determination that such statute is unconstitutional;
    (b) To declare a statute unconstitutional;
    (c) To declare a statute unenforceable, or to refuse to enforce a statute on the basis that federal law or federal regulations prohibit the enforcement of such statute unless an appellate court has made a determination that the enforcement of such statute is prohibited by federal law or federal regulations.


    Some other states might be able to make the claim that they can forbid "the head of the department, agency, or establishment under whose jurisdiction the individual is serving" from consenting but California can't, it is bound by it's own constitution.
    They're not refusing to enforce a statute, they're refusing to participate in a voluntary program.


    There is no law which forces states to allow their law enforcement agents to be deputized by ICE, nor is there a law which requires states or law enforcement agents to report to ICE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    It is found by their oath of affirmation and hence sworn duty to serve and protect the U.S. Constitution and laws established thereunder, not to cherry pick those which further their own ideologies or political agendas.
    You're feel free to join the game of 'which law is it that they're violating' as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    They're not refusing to enforce a statute, they're refusing to participate in a voluntary program.
    The feds are asking them to enforce a statute and they are refusing, their own constitution makes it involuntary for them, they must agree.

    Other states may or may not be bound to enforce this law although this is an argument against that:
    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    It is found by their oath of affirmation and hence sworn duty to serve and protect the U.S. Constitution and laws established thereunder, not to cherry pick those which further their own ideologies or political agendas.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 10-07-2017 at 12:29 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    They're not refusing to enforce a statute, they're refusing to participate in a voluntary program.


    There is no law which forces states to allow their law enforcement agents to be deputized by ICE, nor is there a law which requires states or law enforcement agents to report to ICE.
    You sound like an angry version of Zippy.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The feds are asking them to enforce a statute and they are refusing, their own constitution makes it involuntary for them, they must agree.
    Which statute?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You sound like an angry version of Zippy.
    I'm not angry, just amused by how the 'law and order' types seem to be ignorant of what that actually entails.

    You can join in too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    Trump is playing a real game of chess. I feel blessed that my intuition made me support him back in September 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    I think [Trump] is going to cut the budget.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    I give Trump 1 year to put [Clinton] in jail. See you in January 2018 about this issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    [Paul Ryan being kicked out of speakership] happens soon after the vote fails.

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Which statute?
    The immigration laws, can't you remember what we are talking about from one minute to the next?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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