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Thread: The Rule Of Law Is A Myth

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Yes, that counts. Any agreement between people verbal or written is "contract". If the kid next door asks if I want my lawn mowed for $15 and I say "yes", that's a contract. It's not a very specific contract because there is only one "clause", but it's a contract. How in "anarchy" do we enforce contract? The same way you do with goonerment. You hire people with guns to settle your dispute. Oh you say, but that is such a crude method!!! Um.... that's exactly what we have today. If contract is violated you call the goons...
    interesting.
    it seems to me... like it is very difficult to describe EXACTLY where Anarchy begins and ends...
    if I offer a service to the peeps.. and they like it and use it...
    that is a "contract"?
    and we are now in violation.. of the vague rules of Anarchy?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    interesting.
    it seems to me... like it is very difficult to describe EXACTLY where Anarchy begins and ends...
    if I offer a service to the peeps.. and they like it and use it...
    that is a "contract"?
    and we are now in violation.. of the vague rules of Anarchy?
    The "rules" are quite simple. NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else. Is that so hard to imagine?? Do you enjoy having people who CLAIM to have authority over you (but they really don't)? And when do you tell those who make this claim to foulk off??
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    The "rules" are quite simple. NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else.
    In other words, might makes right.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    In other words, might makes right.
    You should perhaps quote him in the entirety so as to not miss his point, that no one can "claim" to have authority over you.


    But the State is the absolute definition of might makes right. That is what the "law" is all about. If you oppose teh idea of might makes right then you're halfway to being an anarchist.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    You should perhaps quote him in the entirety so as to not miss his point, that no one can "claim" to have authority over you.


    But the State is the absolute definition of might makes right. That is what the "law" is all about. If you oppose teh idea of might makes right then you're halfway to being an anarchist.
    That's an excellent answer...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
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  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    The "rules" are quite simple. NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else. Is that so hard to imagine?? Do you enjoy having people who CLAIM to have authority over you (but they really don't)? And when do you tell those who make this claim to foulk off??
    NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else.
    I submit Sir. that. that is NOT true and you know it. are you not an "authority" on anything?
    I am an "authority" on something. HVAC/R.
    and I have proven this point countless times right here on RPF's.

    connotative and denotative meanings... the former is subjective.
    the latter is not.

    when the people cannot define what their principles are. they have none.
    and make decisions based on emotions.

    what are the principles of Anarchy?
    or is that mere concept.. antithetic to the cause of Anarchy?
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    I am an "authority" on something. HVAC/R.
    and I have proven this point countless times right here on RPF's.
    Except not knowing that Clarence Birdseye invented retail consumer frozen foods in the 1920s and not the 1950s.


  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Except not knowing that Clarence Birdseye invented retail consumer frozen foods in the 1920s and not the 1950s.

    you are a VERY desperate man. what I wrote was. that there was no frozen food section ANYWHERE until the 1950'S.
    enjoy your 15 min of fame.

    YOU claim to be both a pilot and a boat captain...
    and yet when I asked you what cavitation was?
    you had to look the word up.

    Danke understood the meaning of this word. you did not.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    you are a VERY desperate man. what I wrote was. that there was no frozen food section ANYWHERE until the 1950'S.
    And you are wrong.



    Frozen food section, grocery store, Washington DC 1935

    I'm not desperate, I just enjoy tweaking people who have so much pride that they cannot admit when they are wrong and made a mistake.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else.
    I submit Sir. that. that is NOT true and you know it. are you not an "authority" on anything?
    I am an "authority" on something. HVAC/R.
    and I have proven this point countless times right here on RPF's.

    connotative and denotative meanings... the former is subjective.
    the latter is not.

    when the people cannot define what their principles are. they have none.
    and make decisions based on emotions.

    what are the principles of Anarchy?
    or is that mere concept.. antithetic to the cause of Anarchy?
    You're kidding right?? You don't know the difference between "having authority over" someone and being "an authority on" something???

    Are you on the same planet???

    And the "rules" have already been explained above. NO ONE HAS AUTHORITY OVER ANYONE ELSE!!!
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    You're kidding right?? You don't know the difference between "having authority over" someone and being "an authority on" something???

    Are you on the same planet???

    And the "rules" have already been explained above. NO ONE HAS AUTHORITY OVER ANYONE ELSE!!!
    the tribe has ruled...
    I will hang my head in shame and promise not to disgrace the noble halls of ronpaulforums Anarchy.... ever again.

    Ron Paul was WRONG about the demise of our financial system.
    he played me for a fool. and for a time...
    he fooled me.

    I was WRONG to consider him a Min-Archist. he was a hard core Anarchist all along.
    I have some pretty cool memorabilia from 07-08.. that I will attempt to give away before I trash it.

    I was already waking up when Ron Paul strode in.
    there was already a Revolution going on.

    and in 2017. he is nothing more than a mere distraction from the truth.
    and that, is hard won knowledge.

    this place is nothing more than a circle jerk for hard core Anarchists.
    and the good Dr is proud.
    please carry on.

    HVACTech. over and out.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

    "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - Thomas Jefferson.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post

    this place is nothing more than a circle jerk for hard core Anarchists.
    and the good Dr is proud.
    please carry on.
    But there are only 3 here! lol
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post

    HVACTech. over and out.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    But there are only 3 here! lol
    Last one to leave please close the door...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post

    Oh, would that it were so! Lol
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Last one to leave please close the door...
    But what if they don't? Where is the enforcement? Where are the consequences?

    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    You should perhaps quote him in the entirety so as to not miss his point, that no one can "claim" to have authority over you.
    Except that's not what he said -- he said "NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else." So if no one has any authority over me and no one has any over you and we get into a disagreement that we can't settle peacefully, it's whoever has the most physical power to exert his will on the other that wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    But the State is the absolute definition of might makes right. That is what the "law" is all about.
    Not quite. While you might not agree, I see a distinction between pure physical power and law, which is power that has been legitimized in some fashion. The simplest example would be where you and I enter into a contract and agree that any dispute is to be settled by an independent arbitrator, whose decision will not only be final but will be enforced by physical force. By entering into such an agreement we have legitimized the use of force by the arbitrator.

    It s gets more complicated when more than just the two of us are involved and when something other than a contract is at issue. Many on this site would argue that unless one has explicitly consented to the application of a law one isn't bound to observe it and any enforcement against one who hasn't consented is illegitimate. But all that means is that I can commit any series of violent acts against other people who will have absolutely no grounds to stop or punish me other than their use of physical force -- i.e., might making right.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Except that's not what he said -- he said "NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else." So if no one has any authority over me and no one has any over you and we get into a disagreement that we can't settle peacefully, it's whoever has the most physical power to exert his will on the other that wins.



    Not quite. While you might not agree, I see a distinction between pure physical power and law, which is power that has been legitimized in some fashion. The simplest example would be where you and I enter into a contract and agree that any dispute is to be settled by an independent arbitrator, whose decision will not only be final but will be enforced by physical force. By entering into such an agreement we have legitimized the use of force by the arbitrator.

    It s gets more complicated when more than just the two of us are involved and when something other than a contract is at issue. Many on this site would argue that unless one has explicitly consented to the application of a law one isn't bound to observe it and any enforcement against one who hasn't consented is illegitimate. But all that means is that I can commit any series of violent acts against other people who will have absolutely no grounds to stop or punish me other than their use of physical force -- i.e., might making right.
    Yes, conflict is different when there is no contract (chance encounter on the street for instance). In that instance you would need to make some kind of agreement with your other party. This "agreement" might come to play after you have broken chairs over each other's heads and you have the other party down on the ground with your hands around his neck. You can kill him but since he's an unknown to you it might not be wise because he might have powerful friends who will come looking for you. At that point you might "agree" to let go of his neck and he will "agree" to stop the fighting and look to a non-violent solution. This is verbal contract in action and it really does work everyday if you look around you. Fender benders for instance. Haven't you ever agreed to a cash payment "under the table" for a bump on your car? These kinds of events can work out without violence and sometimes there's violence. If you call the goons, however, there's a very good chance of violence.

    There's violence either way, I think the anarchist way results in LESS violence...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Yes, conflict is different when there is no contract (chance encounter on the street for instance). In that instance you would need to make some kind of agreement with your other party. This "agreement" might come to play after you have broken chairs over each other's heads and you have the other party down on the ground with your hands around his neck. You can kill him but since he's an unknown to you it might not be wise because he might have powerful friends who will come looking for you. At that point you might "agree" to let go of his neck and he will "agree" to stop the fighting and look to a non-violent solution. This is verbal contract in action and it really does work everyday if you look around you. Fender benders for instance. Haven't you ever agreed to a cash payment "under the table" for a bump on your car? These kinds of events can work out without violence and sometimes there's violence. If you call the goons, however, there's a very good chance of violence.

    There's violence either way, I think the anarchist way results in LESS violence...
    LOL

    Does competition result in less commerce? Or is that what monopoly does?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    Does competition result in less commerce? Or is that what monopoly does?
    Is that tongue in cheek?? Because of course competition results in more commerce. Monopoly results in poor service and high prices... Is there any doubt??
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Is that tongue in cheek?? Because of course competition results in more commerce. Monopoly results in poor service and high prices... Is there any doubt??



    Then competition in government will result in MORE tyranny not less.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post



    Then competition in government will result in MORE tyranny not less.
    Of course, because if given a choice people will choose tyranny.
    "The Patriarch"

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Of course, because if given a choice people will choose tyranny.
    Then the best way to limit tyranny is a limited monopoly on government in a given territory.

    That territory must be large enough and have enough resources and people to defend itself from enemies foreign and domestic.

    Welcome to world history and why anarchy doesn't last and governments do.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #54
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...-Kafkatrapping

    Kafkatrapping

    Model M: “The act of arguing against the theory of anti-{sin,racism,sexism,homophobia,oppression} demonstrates that you are either {sinful,racist,sexist, homophobic, oppressive} or do not understand the theory of anti-{sin,racism,sexism,homophobia,oppression}, and your argument can therefore be dismissed as either corrupt or incompetent.”
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then the best way to limit tyranny is a limited monopoly on government in a given territory.

    That territory must be large enough and have enough resources and people to defend itself from enemies foreign and domestic.

    Welcome to world history and why anarchy doesn't last and governments do.
    Longevity does not make them "good"...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GovMurder.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	106.8 KB 
ID:	5891
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    Does competition result in less commerce? Or is that what monopoly does?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Is that tongue in cheek?? Because of course competition results in more commerce. Monopoly results in poor service and high prices... Is there any doubt??
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post



    Then competition in government will result in MORE tyranny not less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Of course, because if given a choice people will choose tyranny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then the best way to limit tyranny is a limited monopoly on government in a given territory.

    That territory must be large enough and have enough resources and people to defend itself from enemies foreign and domestic.

    Welcome to world history and why anarchy doesn't last and governments do.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Longevity does not make them "good"...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GovMurder.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	106.8 KB 
ID:	5891
    No but they reduce tyranny compared to anarchy, and a lack of longevity is a fatal flaw in anarchy, it is always replaced with tyranny unless good people replace it with good government. See above.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    3.0 probably came closest to the truth. Words on paper don't mean anything unless people actually enforce it. In civic terms, yes government has a monopoly on force. But, a more timid example would be the Ron Paul forum rules and guidelines. They don't mean squat unless a moderator or administrator chooses to enforce them. As soon as they start letting things slide, the forum becomes a free-for-all and whoever can spam the most garbage or call the most names is declared the winner. Anarchy ensues, for better but usually for worse, as you end up with 100-page threads with 2 or 3 people going at it and misinterpreting or misrepresenting everything that is said.
    Perfect example.

    And, yes, Rev was right. Any ideal must be secured if it is to be made applicable.

    Only other thing I would add is what is Legal is not always Lawful. In fact, it seldom is.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-16-2017 at 02:44 PM.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by HVACTech View Post
    NO ONE has any "authority" over anyone else.
    I submit Sir. that. that is NOT true and you know it. are you not an "authority" on anything?
    I am an "authority" on something. HVAC/R.
    and I have proven this point countless times right here on RPF's.

    connotative and denotative meanings... the former is subjective.
    the latter is not.

    when the people cannot define what their principles are. they have none.
    and make decisions based on emotions.

    what are the principles of Anarchy?
    or is that mere concept.. antithetic to the cause of Anarchy?
    If you cannot distinguish between someTHING and someONE then you've got a serious problem.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No but they reduce tyranny compared to anarchy, and a lack of longevity is a fatal flaw in anarchy, it is always replaced with tyranny unless good people replace it with good government. See above.
    There is no such thing as a good State. The very basic foundation of any and all States is tyranny. And they will only become more and more tyrannical. Ther eis not a single State in all of history that has ever reduced tyranny.

    Anarchy is the absence of all tyranny. It is possible that violence and bloodshed could happen in an anarchist society. But this is so in all forms of human organization. Anarchists realize though that anarchy gives the least bloodshed and causes the least harm for the most people. It is not perfect, nothing is perfect. But it is better in every realistic case and example you can conjure than the State, any type of State.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Yes, conflict is different when there is no contract (chance encounter on the street for instance). In that instance you would need to make some kind of agreement with your other party. This "agreement" might come to play after you have broken chairs over each other's heads and you have the other party down on the ground with your hands around his neck. You can kill him but since he's an unknown to you it might not be wise because he might have powerful friends who will come looking for you. At that point you might "agree" to let go of his neck and he will "agree" to stop the fighting and look to a non-violent solution. This is verbal contract in action and it really does work everyday if you look around you. Fender benders for instance. Haven't you ever agreed to a cash payment "under the table" for a bump on your car? These kinds of events can work out without violence and sometimes there's violence. If you call the goons, however, there's a very good chance of violence.

    There's violence either way, I think the anarchist way results in LESS violence...
    Exactly. Just look at the arguments.

    Statists argue that anarchy will lead to warlordism as local warlords seize power. Let us assume this is true. Small time warlords with small time armies either must give the people they rule great benefits or they will be overwhelmed by the much larger population. At the very least people will have more power over their lives and who rules them.

    On the other hand, the State is warlordism taken to the Nth degree. Your local mayor? Nothing but a warlord who uses the local military force -the police- to maintain power. And if you ever threaten the warlord's state the warlord can call in greater and overwhelming force from an even more powerful warlord above them -the Governor and state National Guard- unlike in anarchy where there would be no greater power and no ability to overwhelm the people with brute might. And if that fails, your local warlord and his boss warlord can call in their master -the Head of State, the President in the USA- who will declare your local demands for justice and liberty to be a "rebellion" and send in the might of the national military to devastate and dominate you, murdering you into submission.

    Can anarchy get bad? Absolutely. But even at its worst anarchy is a far better system than the State at its best. Anarchist societies have less violence, less war, less destruction, whereas the State can only exist by and through those things.

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