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Thread: Catalonia

  1. #61
    Almost 1,400 Companies Have Left Catalonia Since October 2

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/almost-1400-companies-have-left-catalonia-october-2


    Catalan Government Said To Back Off Independence Push, Will Seek Elections

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/catalan-government-said-back-independence-push-will-call-elections-spanish-yields-sl


    Catalan Separatists Rebel Against Their Leader, Shout "Traitors" Outside Puigdemont's Office

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/catalan-separatists-rebel-against-their-leader-shout-traitors-outside-puigdemonts-of


    Catalan Parliament To Decide On Independence Tomorrow

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/dramatic-reversal-catalan-leader-rejects-elections-sets-stage-clash-madrid
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #62
    Tomorrow. Tomorrow. There's always, Tomorrow. It's only, a day a-way.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    I think I'll post this in the new Catalonia thread (can't think of a better place.)

    Sith Media: "I Don't See The Purpose Of A U.S. Citizen Having These Weapons!"


    But... but...




    and...


    Last edited by osan; 10-27-2017 at 06:56 AM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.


  5. #64
    Spanish hooligans thirsty for blood...

    Um... it's SPAIN, for Christ's sake. If this outburst confuses you, it is then imperative you stick your ass into a library and your nose into a book on Spanish history.

    The opening sentence, above, is the very definition of "redundant".

    That aside, can you imagine how Brussels must have blown its anal glands when this became even a remote possibility?

    My entire family is in Europe, and still I cannot but get a kick out of watching that most stupid of continents implode.
    Last edited by osan; 10-27-2017 at 07:02 AM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    Freedom will be stolen from you in a heartbeat if you do not behave as a wild and ravening beast pursuant to its protection.

    "Government" is naught but a mental construct, a script to which people meekly accept and play out their assigned roles by those with no authority to dictate such.

    Pray for reset.




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  7. #65
    Daniel Lacalle: A Spanish Libertarian on Catalonia

    10/05/2017Daniel LacalleJeff Deist
    Daniel Lacalle, a Spanish economist and libertarian who runs Mises Hispano, joins Jeff Deist for an in-depth discussion of the facts behind the Catalan independence vote. Daniel makes the case against secession, based on economics, history, constitutionalism, anti-socialism, and his strong view that independence would result in less freedom for Catalans. Jeff disagrees, arguing for self-determination as a fundamental libertarian political principle that contemplates freedom to choose even bad political arrangements. Don't miss this show if you want to understand what is happening in Catalonia beyond the headlines.

    Video and audio file at link..https://mises.org/library/daniel-lac...rian-catalonia

  8. #66
    Catalonia’s regional parliament passed a motion Friday to establish an independent Catalan Republic, voting to secede from Spain after an acrimonious debate that saw opposition lawmakers walk out in protest before the vote.
    The vote in Barcelona came after Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy delivered an impassioned speech in Madrid, urging the country’s Senate to grant his government special constitutional measures that would allow it to take control of Catalonia’s autonomous powers and halt the region’s independence bid.

    The vote was approved with 70 in favor of independence, 10 against and two blank ballots in Catalonia’s 135-member parliament.

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/catalan-r...163818236.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #67
    Spain PM Fires Catalan Government, Calls Snap Elections In Retaliation For Independence Vote

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/catalan-chaos-continues-secessionists-prepare-independence-motion


    Catalan Leaders Face 30 Years In Jail As Spain Brings "Rebellion" Charges

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-27/catalan-leaders-face-30-years-jail-spain-brings-rebellion-charges
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post

    Daniel Lacalle, a Spanish economist and libertarian who runs Mises Hispano, joins Jeff Deist for an in-depth discussion of the facts behind the Catalan independence vote. Daniel makes the case against secession, based on economics, history, constitutionalism, anti-socialism, and his strong view that independence would result in less freedom for Catalans. Jeff disagrees, arguing for self-determination as a fundamental libertarian political principle that contemplates freedom to choose even bad political arrangements.
    Where have I seen this before?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Where have I seen this before?
    That particular conversation or the argument in general?

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    That particular conversation or the argument in general?
    the argument. Ah. Found it.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    the argument. Ah. Found it.
    That's a whole bunch of arguing.

  14. #72
    So, whats next for Spain?
    Where is John Galt?


    When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? - Miguel de Cervantes, (Don Quixote)



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  16. #73

    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  17. #74
    I hear that one of the stated reasons for secession is that Catalonians are tired of seeing their wealth redistributed throughout the rest of Spain, and yet the prevailing sentiment in Spain is that this is a leftist separatist movement. But, wouldn't the Spaniards be the leftists if they're taking Catalan wealth and spreading it to other regions?

    I just find it hard to believe that a bunch of communists created the wealthiest region in Spain, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  18. #75

  19. #76
    EU TURMOIL: Finland preparing to go against Spain and RECOGNISE Catalonia’s independence

    FINLAND could be the first country to officially recognise Catalonia as a republic state, in a move that would put the Scandinavian country in direct opposition to the European Union (EU).

    The country’s MP for Lapland Mikko Karna has said that he intends to submit a motion to the Finnish parliament recognising the new fledgling country.

    Mr Karna, who is part of the ruling Centre Party, led by Prime Minister Juha Sipila, also sent his congratulations to Catalonia after the regional parliament voted earlier today on breaking away from the rest of Spain.

    Should Finland officially recognise the new state of Catalonia this will be yet another body blow to the the EU which has firmly backed the continuation of a unified Spain under the control of Madrid.

    European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker warned today that “cracks” were appearing in the bloc due to the seismic events in Catalonia that were causing ruptures through the bloc.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...nd-Mikko-Karna

  20. #77
    Catalan Leader Urges "Peaceful" Rebellion As Spain Takes Over Government

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-28/catalan-leader-urges-peaceful-rebellion-spain-takes-over-government
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #78
    Catalan police: Remain neutral

    The Catalan Police Prefecture circulated a letter internally asking the Mossos to remain neutral as events unfold.
    "We must remember that in each and every one of our interventions, we are acting as representatives of the institution we serve and not as individuals. Consequently, the principle of neutrality must always be upheld," said the letter, whose authenticity was confirmed to CNN by the Mossos.

    More at: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/28/europe...ked/index.html

    Security for Catalan ministers being scaled down

    Carles Puidgemont and several other former members of the Catalan government have had their security scaled down. Some Catalan ministers will have their security details completely removed, while Puidgemont, former leader of the government, will have a smaller number of security guards now responsible for his safety.
    The security is provided by the MOSSOS, the regional police force of Catalonia.

    More at: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/1...145635868.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #79
    Puigdemont, Catalan ministers turn up in Brussels as Madrid sues them for rebellion

    Former Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont has appeared in Brussels alongside other members of his cabinet as the Spanish Attorney General Jose Manuel Maza filed a lawsuit against the secessionist leaders over their push for independence.

    Puigdemont did not go to the Catalonian regional Government Palace on Monday, even though he earlier vowed to “continue working to build a free country” in defiance of Madrid’s decision to sack his government and suspend Catalonia’s independence, which he said went against the will of the people.

    ...

    Puigdemont left Spain for Belgium at a time when the Spanish Prosecutor’s Office announced that it had filed a lawsuit against the sacked Catalan leader, other members of his cabinet and some regional MPs on rebellion, sedition and embezzlement charges with the Spanish National Court. In total, the charges have been filed against 12 people, La Vanguardia reports.

    Catalonia’s El Periodico newspaper reported that Puigdemont allegedly traveled to Brussels to meet with Flemish politicians. Two days ago Flanders, the Dutch-speaking region of Belgium, expressed its solidarity with the Catalans in their drive for independence.

    ...

    On Monday, Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis told AP that Catalonia’s autonomy could possibly be expanded. He added at the same time that full independence for the secessionist region is “ruled out.”
    https://www.rt.com/news/408228-puigd...adrid-lawsuit/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  23. #80
    Some of the most prominent ousted Catalan leaders, including Puigdemont and Vice President Oriol Junqueras, had said they would not accept their dismissal.
    But their respective parties, PdeCat and Esquerra Republicana de Catalunya, said on Monday they would take part in the election called by Rajoy, a tacit acceptance of direct rule from Madrid. The regional parliament canceled a meeting for Tuesday, another signal lawmakers accepted they had been dismissed.
    A call for widespread civil disobedience from the main civic groups behind the secessionist campaign failed to attract many followers. Public sector workers such as teachers, firefighters and the police mostly started worked as normal on Monday and there was no sign of widespread absenteeism.

    More at: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sp...KBN1CZ0IP?il=0
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  25. #81
    Kind of sounds like it fizzled out. In any case, it sounds like Catalonia got a good deal. Catalonia remains part of Spain in exchange for both sides getting to vote over and over until they get the results they want. That's how you do it in a true democracy, you just keep voting until you win, and then you vote some more because the other side wants to win also. If you are Spain, it also helps to have police with batons enter polling places to ensure no one makes any errors when they vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Elliot's The Hollow Men

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    A call for widespread civil disobedience from the main civic groups behind the secessionist campaign failed to attract many followers. Public sector workers such as teachers, firefighters and the police mostly started worked as normal on Monday and there was no sign of widespread absenteeism.
    tax-ticks showed up for work, consider me unsurprised.

  27. #83
    Puigdemont Claims He’s Legitimate President Of Catalonia, Not Seeking Belgian Asylum

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-31/puigdemont-claims-he%E2%80%99s-legitimate-president-catalonia-not-seeking-belgian-asylum
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #84
    (1) There is no such thing as a collective right of self-determination; there are only individual property rights. The state which ought to govern Catalonia is the one which will govern it most liberally (i.e. protect the real rights of individuals), regardless of the fictional rights of the collective.

    (2) Catalan politics are much more socialistic than Spanish politics. An independent Catalonia will drift leftward. Individual rights will suffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth
    Almost 1,400 Companies Have Left Catalonia Since October 2

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...onia-october-2

    ...

    With Just Hours Until Spain's Ultimatum Runs Out, Catalonia Proposes Its Own Central Bank

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...n-central-bank
    Shocker...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Following the vote on October 1, King Felipe VI made a rare appearance on national TV. He called on the Catalan government to return to constitutional legality and made no apologies for the terror campaign launched by the national police. Neither did he address his Catalan subjects in their own language.

    At that point Felipe stopped being the king of all Spaniards. As relations between Madrid and Barcelona continue to deteriorate, he would do well to consider making the ultimate sacrifice to save his country from itself.

    Keeping Catalonia in Spain by taking Spain out of Catalonia is therefore directly tied to making Felipe a regular citizen of the country like everybody else. His abdication would lead to the proclamation of the Third Spanish Republic, to new governments in Madrid and Barcelona, and to a constitutional assembly that could result in the creation of a multi-national federal state where Andalusians, Basques, Canarians, Castilians, Catalans and others could reconcile with their past as they look to reclaim and refashion the old notion of the many Spains, or Las Espańas.
    Any other alternatives at this point would seem to lead nowhere but to saying goodbye to Spain.

    More at: http://www.newsweek.com/king-felipe-...-crisis-689346
    Yes, the monarchy is above and declines to participate in your sectarian monkey wars.

    The King ought to have spoken to them in Latin.

    Anna Gabriel lives in a flatshare in a modest building tucked away in the bohemian Barcelona neighbourhood of Grácia. The first thing you see as you enter is a poster of Hugo Chávez, the late anti-capitalist leader of Venezuela, and a table stacked with political leaflets. The living room is small and spartan, devoid of books and personal objects. The humble surroundings are a world away from the sumptuous medieval palaces that house the Catalan president and his ministers. But there are many, not least inside the Spanish government, who believe that the rhythm and pace of Catalonia’s escalating conflict with Madrid are dictated not by the official Catalan leadership but by Ms Gabriel and her far-left separatist party. The Popular Unity Candidacy (CUP) holds just 10 of 135 seats in Catalan’s regional parliament, but without them President Carles Puigdemont has no majority to continue his separatist course. That has given the CUP and Ms Gabriel, the spokeswoman of the party’s parliamentary group, sweeping power to shape the political process. More often than not, they have used it to press for a hardline, confrontational stance that could culminate in a unilateral declaration of independence from Spain as early as next week. Ms Gabriel argues that there is simply “no alternative” to such a declaration, especially after the events surrounding Sunday’s independence referendum. The vote, which had been declared illegal by Spain’s constitutional court, was marred by violence after Spanish police tried to interrupt the voting process and confiscate ballot boxes. Madrid argues that its officers were defending the constitutional order against a de facto insurrection, but Ms Gabriel insists the intervention was a “savage and brutal attack against an entire people”. “Many people who were not in favour of independence now say that they no longer want to form part of a Spanish state that confronts political problems like this. In political terms, people are saying: is this what the Spanish state has to offer?”, she says. Spain, Ms Gabriel argues, is not only a state with “fascist roots” but also one that cannot acknowledge its own failure: “If you need so much brute force to defend the unity of the state, isn’t it evident that this unity does not exist?”

    Catalonia’s far-left Popular Unity Candidacy does not have formal leaders. But it does have a face, and it is that of Ms Gabriel, the spokeswoman for the party’s group in the Catalan parliament. She hails from a leftwing family of miners in Sallent, north of Barcelona, and trained both as a teacher and a lawyer. Ms Gabriel belongs to the radical wing of what is already, by European standards, a radical party. The CUP describes itself as a “clearly socialist organisation with the objective of replacing the capitalist socio-economic model with a new model that is centred on the human collective and that respects the environment”. It opposes Catalan membership of Nato and of the EU. Ms Gabriel is a veteran activist who was part of an anti-fascist group in her youth before setting up a local CUP chapter in her hometown. Her greatest fear, she once told a Spanish interviewer, is that the “havoc created by the capitalist system will be irreversible”.
    https://www.ft.com/content/4f0f3e46-...5-27219df83c97

    Revolutionary Catalonia (July 21, 1936 – 1939) was the part of Catalonia (an autonomous region in northeast Spain) controlled by the anarchist, communist, and socialist trade unions, parties, and militias during the Spanish Civil War. These included the Confederación Nacional del Trabajo (CNT, National Confederation of Labor) which was the dominant labor union at the time and the closely associated Federación Anarquista Ibérica (FAI, Iberian Anarchist Federation). The Unión General de Trabajadores (General Worker's Union), the POUM and the Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia (which included the Communist Party of Catalonia) were also involved. Although the Generalitat of Catalonia was nominally in power, the trade unions were de facto in command of most of the economy and military forces.

    Socialist rule of the region began with the Spanish Revolution of 1936, resulting in workers' control of businesses and factories, collective farming in the countryside, and attacks against Spanish nationalists and the Catholic clergy. The growing influence of the Communist Party of Spain's (PCE) Popular Front government and their desire to nationalize revolutionary committees and militias brought it into conflict with the CNT and POUM, resulting in the May Days and the eventual replacement of the CNT by the PCE as the major political force in Catalonia until the arrival of the fascists.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia

    History does rhyme.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 10-31-2017 at 10:17 PM.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    (1) There is no such thing as a collective right of self-determination; there are only individual property rights. The state which ought to govern Catalonia is the one which will govern it most liberally (i.e. protect the real rights of individuals), regardless of the fictional rights of the collective.
    Been there had that debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    (2) Catalan politics are much more socialistic than Spanish politics. An independent Catalonia will drift leftward. Individual rights will suffer.
    If they remain they will pull all of Spain farther left, Spain is better off letting them go.


    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The King ought to have spoken to them in Latin.
    He would have done less damage to Spain AND Catalonia that way.


    And people usually don't change and they teach their children more of their vices than their virtues.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If they remain they will pull all of Spain farther left, Spain is better off letting them go.
    Perhaps, though the effect in Catalonia would be much greater than in Spain, by the numbers.

    In any event, the argument you're now making is not the argument which other pro-independence "libertarians" are making.

    They're arguing that independence will advance Catalan liberty.

    He would have done less damage to Spain AND Catalonia that way.
    The damage has been done by democracy and the nationalism it breeds (or unleashes, I should say).
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Perhaps, though the effect in Catalonia would be much greater than in Spain, by the numbers.

    In any event, the argument you're now making is not the argument which other pro-independence "libertarians" are making.

    They're arguing that independence will advance Catalan liberty.
    In the narrow facet of "the consent of the governed" it will, but in any case they are a lost cause, Spain would be better off without them if they had the sense to let them go.


    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The damage has been done by democracy and the nationalism it breeds (or unleashes, I should say).
    The King's tone-deaf response only poured gasoline on the fire, even from your point of view.
    Just like nearly every move Rajoy has made.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In the narrow facet of "the consent of the governed" it will
    "Consent of the governed" has nothing whatsoever to do with individual liberty.

    Being able to vote to steal your neighbor's property does not make you (and certainly not your neighbor) more free.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    "Consent of the governed" has nothing whatsoever to do with individual liberty.

    Being able to vote to steal your neighbor's property does not make you (and certainly not your neighbor) more free.
    If I am ruled by someone without my consent I am not free.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If I am ruled by someone without my consent I am not free.
    Voting =/= Consent

    Government is never by consent, by definition, whether democratic or not, whether in Barcelona or Madrid.
    "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

    -H. L. Mencken

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