Catalonia

[Swordsmyth]

The Spanish government will suspend Catalonia's autonomy if Catalan President Carles Puigdemont gives an ambiguous response to Madrid's question about whether he has declared independence from Spain, Spanish Interior Minister Juan Ignacio Zoido said Oct. 14, Reuters reported.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...erior-minister

[Pauls' Revere]

The Spanish government will suspend Catalonia's autonomy if Catalan President Carles Puigdemont gives an ambiguous response to Madrid's question about whether he has declared independence from Spain, Spanish Interior Minister Juan Ignacio Zoido said Oct. 14, Reuters reported.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...erior-minister

https://www.thelocal.es/20171015/cat...deadline-looms

Spain's government has given Carles Puigdemont until 10:00 am (0800 GMT) on Monday to clear up his ambiguous stance on secession after announcing last week he was ready to declare the region "an independent state" but called for more time for talks.

Anything other than a full climb-down is likely to be viewed by Madrid as a declaration of independence which would prompt the government of Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy to begin taking direct control of the region.

I think that's 0200 EST 10/16/2017
or 2300 PST 10/15/2017

[Swordsmyth]

With Just Hours Until Spain's Ultimatum Runs Out, Catalonia Proposes Its Own Central Bank

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-15/just-hours-until-spains-ultimatum-runs-out-catalonia-proposes-its-own-central-bank

[Pauls' Revere]

With Just Hours Until Spain's Ultimatum Runs Out, Catalonia Proposes Its Own Central Bank

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-15/just-hours-until-spains-ultimatum-runs-out-catalonia-proposes-its-own-central-bank

It would probably have to as other banks have promised to leave if they secede.

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan Leader Defies Spain, Sends Evasive Reply To Rajoy Activating Second Ultimatum Deadline

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-16/catalan-leader-defies-spain-sends-evasive-reply-rajoy-activating-second-ultimatum-de


Madrid moves towards direct rule over Catalonia

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/madrid-moves-towards-direct-rule-over-catalonia-idUSKBN1CL0K9


Spanish Prosecutors Seek To Jail Popular Catalan Police Chief

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-16/spanish-prosecutors-seek-jail-popular-catalan-police-chief

[AZJoe]

Imagine if Catalan were an Oblast or Republic of Russia, and Putin acted the way Spain and Rajoy have. Washington and Europe would be howling with indignation, demanding his head on a pike.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...h-Police/page4

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan Independence Movement Furious After Spain Jails Two Leaders For Possible Sedition

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-16/catalan-independence-movement-furious-after-spain-jails-two-leaders-possible-seditio

[Swordsmyth]

Spain Constitutional Court Declares Catalan Referendum Void

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-17/spain-constitutional-court-declares-catalan-referendum-void

[Pauls' Revere]

https://www.thelocal.es/20171017/pro...ey-separatists

Further protests against the detention of Cuixart and Sanchez were planned for Tuesday afternoon in front of central government offices in Barcelona, Girona, Tarragona and Lleida, with a candle-lit protest in Barcelona at 8:00 pm.

The pair nicknamed the "two Jordis" are the leaders of pro-independence citizens' groups Omnium Cultural and the Catalan National Assembly (ANC) respectively, both of which count tens of thousands of members and have emerged as influential players in the crisis.

They are accused of encouraging a major protest last month as Spanish police raided the Catalan administration's offices in the run-up to the referendum.

Police officers were trapped for hours and their vehicles vandalised as protesters ringed the building, with Cuixart and Sanchez standing atop a police car calling for "permanent mobilisation" against the Spanish state.

The crime of sedition can carry up to 15 years in prison.

I see this three ways, 1) either Carles Puigmont waited to long to declare independence and he should have been much clearer about it. or 2) This is part of the plan and these two that are jailed are falling on the sword so to speak for the cause. Even Jesus had a Judas to help him solidify the cause. 3) these two are splintering off and will become the violent arm of this and it starts to go the IRA/ETA route.

[Pauls' Revere]

Imagine if Catalan were an Oblast or Republic of Russia, and Putin acted the way Spain and Rajoy have. Washington and Europe would be howling with indignation, demanding his head on a pike.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...h-Police/page4

Right, reminds me of when Poland split off and the solidarity movement.

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan Leader Vows To Declare Independence If Spain Triggers "Nuclear Option"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-18/catalan-leader-vows-declare-independence-if-spain-suspends-home-rule

[goldenequity]

memorable quote..

"the Cantalopians have no idea what a
pain in the ass it is to run a Country.
they're better off the way it is."

[AZJoe]

memorable quote..

"the Cantalopians have no idea what a
pain in the ass it is to run a Country.
they're better off the way it is."

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan President Could Call Early Elections

Catalan President Carles Puigdemont is considering declaring independence for Catalonia and then immediately dissolving the government and calling for elections.

Should the Catalan government declare independence and then call for elections it would create a chaotic situation in which the Catalan caretaker government considers itself independent while the Spanish government doesn't. Even if the Catalan government calls for snap elections, the Spanish government could temporarily seize control of Catalan institutions, though it would be harder to justify.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...arly-elections

[Pauls' Revere]

Catalan Leader Vows To Declare Independence If Spain Triggers "Nuclear Option"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-18/catalan-leader-vows-declare-independence-if-spain-suspends-home-rule

Question: Why does he or Catalonia need a nuclear option to declare independence? If you wan it say it and do it, pretty simple.

[Swordsmyth]

Spain Unleashes Historic Power to End Catalan Independence Push

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy will deploy the Spanish government’s most wide-ranging constitutional powers for the first time in the country’s history as he seeks to land a decisive blow on the Catalan separatist movement.
Spanish stocks and bonds dropped as Rajoy’s government said it will move forward with the process of suspending the powers of the Catalan administration after regional President Carles Puigdemont refused to shelve his claim to independence.


Carles Puigdemont

Photographer: Angel Garcia/Bloomberg
Spain’s government issued a statement on Thursday morning invoking Article 155 of the Constitution “to restore the legality” of the semi-autonomous region.

More at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onomy-j8y73fog


Put up or shut up time in Catalonia, now we see if they fold like the Kurds.

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan Separatists Urge Supporters To Pull Cash From Bank

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-19/bank-run-looms-catalan-separatists-urge-supporters-pull-cash

[goldenequity]

Clarification: The Spanish Senate will validate next Friday(27th Oct) the application of article 155.
Carles Puigdemont has until that time to change his mind on the declaration of independence,
if he does then the article 155 will not be applied and Catalonia keeps its autonomy.

[Swordsmyth]

Following the vote on October 1, King Felipe VI made a rare appearance on national TV. He called on the Catalan government to return to constitutional legality and made no apologies for the terror campaign launched by the national police. Neither did he address his Catalan subjects in their own language.
At that point Felipe stopped being the king of all Spaniards. As relations between Madrid and Barcelona continue to deteriorate, he would do well to consider making the ultimate sacrifice to save his country from itself.
Keeping Catalonia in Spain by taking Spain out of Catalonia is therefore directly tied to making Felipe a regular citizen of the country like everybody else. His abdication would lead to the proclamation of the Third Spanish Republic, to new governments in Madrid and Barcelona, and to a constitutional assembly that could result in the creation of a multi-national federal state where Andalusians, Basques, Canarians, Castilians, Catalans and others could reconcile with their past as they look to reclaim and refashion the old notion of the many Spains, or Las Españas.
Any other alternatives at this point would seem to lead nowhere but to saying goodbye to Spain.

More at: http://www.newsweek.com/king-felipe-...-crisis-689346

[Swordsmyth]

The dissolution of European states is the direct result of three things, the EU, NATO and the fall of the USSR.

With no credible enemies near or far the various regional communities had no larger worries than their relationship to their cousins and no benefits for putting up with them.

[Pauls' Revere]

The dissolution of European states is the direct result of three things, the EU, NATO and the fall of the USSR.

With no credible enemies near or far the various regional communities had no larger worries than their relationship to their cousins and no benefits for putting up with them.

Generally speaking, I would agree with that. This I feel is somewhat becoming a global phenomenon on some sort of scale since the end of the cold war the world is not so bipolar. That may change however with the rise of China and a new cold war rises.

[Pauls' Revere]

Following the vote on October 1, King Felipe VI made a rare appearance on national TV. He called on the Catalan government to return to constitutional legality and made no apologies for the terror campaign launched by the national police. Neither did he address his Catalan subjects in their own language.
At that point Felipe stopped being the king of all Spaniards. As relations between Madrid and Barcelona continue to deteriorate, he would do well to consider making the ultimate sacrifice to save his country from itself.
Keeping Catalonia in Spain by taking Spain out of Catalonia is therefore directly tied to making Felipe a regular citizen of the country like everybody else. His abdication would lead to the proclamation of the Third Spanish Republic, to new governments in Madrid and Barcelona, and to a constitutional assembly that could result in the creation of a multi-national federal state where Andalusians, Basques, Canarians, Castilians, Catalans and others could reconcile with their past as they look to reclaim and refashion the old notion of the many Spains, or Las Españas.
Any other alternatives at this point would seem to lead nowhere but to saying goodbye to Spain.

More at: http://www.newsweek.com/king-felipe-...-crisis-689346

King Felipe is not going to abdicate the throne. Im sure the EU ministers are backing him and he will demonstrate the resolve of the EU so that if anyone else gets a wild secessionist hair up their butt they know what to expect. Catalonia will serve as a lesson in this regard. Sadly, I think Pudgimont is going to deliver another vauge bs speech and wants time to talk some more.

[Swordsmyth]

Spanish Attorney General prepares to ARREST Catalonia's president

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5003425/amp/Attorney-General-prepares-ARREST-Catalonia-s-president.html

[Pauls' Revere]

Spain invokes article 155:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/w...ano-rajoy.html

BARCELONA — The escalating confrontation over Catalonia’s independence drive took its most serious turn on Saturday as Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy of Spain announced he would remove the leadership of the restive region and initiate a process of direct rule by the central government in Madrid.

It was the first time that Spain’s government had moved to strip the autonomy of one of its 17 regions, and the first time that a leader had invoked Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution — a broad tool intended to protect the “general interests” of the nation.

The unexpectedly forceful moves by Mr. Rajoy, made after an emergency cabinet meeting, thrust Spain into uncharted waters. The prime minister is trying to put down one of the gravest constitutional crises his country has faced since embracing democracy after the death of its dictator Gen. Francisco Franco in 1975.

[Swordsmyth]

Catalonia's leaders said on Saturday they would not accept direct rule imposed on the region by the Spanish government, as a political crisis that has rattled the economy and raised fears of prolonged unrest showed no signs of easing.Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy announced earlier on Saturday he would invoke special constitutional powers to fire the regional government and force a new election to counter the region's move towards independence.
Catalan President Carles Puigdemont, who made a symbolic declaration of independence on Oct. 10 after a referendum to secede, called Rajoy's moves the "worst attacks against the people of Catalonia" since Spain's military dictatorship.
It is the first time since Spain's return to democracy that the central government has used its powers to seize control of a regional administration.
Rajoy said it was necessary to end a crisis that has fractured the country and prompted Spain to reduce growth forecasts for the euro zone's fourth-largest economy.
After taking party in peaceful demonstration, Puigdemont expressed his rejection of Madrid's move, but stopped short of saying he would make good his threat to push ahead with the independence bid before direct rule takes effect.
"I ask the (Catalan) parliament to meet in a plenary session during which we, the representatives of the citizens' sovereignty, will be able to decide over this attempt to liquidate our government and our democracy, and act in consequence," Puigdemont said in a televised address.
Rajoy, who acted with backing from the main opposition party in Madrid and King Felipe, needs the authorization of Spain's upper house of parliament to impose direct rule.
"Our objective is to restore the law and a normal cohabitation among citizens, which has deteriorated a lot, continue with the economic recovery, which is under threat today in Catalonia, and celebrate elections in a situation of normality," he said.
The Senate vote that would give Madrid full control of Catalonia's finances, police and public media and curb the powers of the regional parliament for up to six months is scheduled for next Friday.
That could give the independence movement room to maneuver.
The regional parliament's speaker, Carme Forcadell, said she would not accept Madrid's move and accused Rajoy of a "coup."
"Prime Minister Rajoy wants the parliament of Catalonia to stop being a democratic parliament, and we will not allow this to happen," Forcadell said in a televised speech.
The assembly is expected to decide on Monday whether to hold a session to formally proclaim the republic of Catalonia.
Catalan media have said Puigdemont could dissolve the regional parliament and call elections by next Friday. Under Catalan law, those elections would take place within two months.
That would enable Puigdemont to go the polls earlier than envisaged by Rajoy, who spoke of a six-month timetable, and to exploit the anti-Madrid sentiment running high in the region.

More at: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/spanish-go...090625953.html

[Champ]

This entire mess seems to be making a good argument for maintaining arms to prevent tyrannical leaders from asserting dominance over large groups of people. I don't know the degree to which Catalonians are armed, but judging from the words of the Spanish leaders, it doesn't sound like they fear much. It sounds more like a slavemaster speaking to his subjects.

[Pauls' Revere]

So, Catalonia went ahead with a vote which Madrid declared unconstitutional. After this vote Madrid now says it will enforce article 155 and hold a special election (a vote). I'm wondering was the Catalonia vote national or regional? and is this Madrid vote National or regional? and who will monitor this vote sanctioned by Madrid?

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan Separatists Plan Human Shield, "Civil Disobedience" To Block Spanish Takeover

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-23/catalan-separatists-plan-human-shield-civil-disobedience-block-spanish-takeover

[Swordsmyth]

Spanish government spokesman Inigo Mendez de Vigo said in an interview that the Spanish government is ready to use force against separatists in Catalonia, The Times reported Oct 24. Mendez also said the Catalan police will have to restore the law and counter threats to public order.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...spokesman-says

[Swordsmyth]

Catalan Separatist Leader: "Spain Leaves No Option But To Proclaim New Republic"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-25/catalan-separatists-warn-moment-has-come-puigdemont-suddenly-cancels-parliament-appe