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Thread: Catalonia

  1. #151
    First of all, Brussels can no longer insist that this is an internal, domestic, Spanish issue, since Catalan president Puidgemont is in... Brussels. So are 4 members of his government.
    That moves decisions to be made about his situation from the Spanish legal system to its Belgian counterpart. And the two are not identical twins. Even if both countries are EU members. This may expose a very large European problem: the lack of equality among justice systems. Citizens of EU member countries are free to move and work across the Union, but they are subject to different laws and constitutions.
    The way the Spanish government tries to go after Puidgemont is exactly the same as the way Turkish president Erdogan tries to get to his perceived archenemy, Fethullah Gülen, a longtime resident of Pennsylvania. But the US doesn’t want to extradite Gülen, not even now Turkey arrests US embassy personnel. The Americans have had enough of Erdogan.
    Erdogan accuses Gülen of organizing a coup. Spanish PM Rajoy accuses the Catalan government of the same. But they are not the same kind of coup. The Turkish one saw violence and death. The Spanish one did not, at least not from the side of those who allegedly perpetrated the coup.
    Brussels should have intervened in the Catalonia mess a long time ago, called a meeting, instead of claiming this had nothing to do with the EU, a claim as cowardly as it is cheap. You’re either a union or you’re not. And if you are, the well-being of all your citizens is your responsibility. You don’t get to cherry pick. You got to walk your talk.
    Belgian news paper De Standaard today makes an interesting distinction. It says the Belgian judicial system is not asked to “extradite” Puidgemont to Spain (uitlevering), but to “surrender” him (overlevering). Legal gibberish.
    The paper also states that the case will go through three different courts, each of which has 15 days to announce a decision, so Puidgemont is safe for at least a month and a half. And then on December 21, Rajoy had called elections in Catalonia. For which, reportedly, he will seek to ban several parties. Don’t be surprised if that includes Puidgemont’s.
    Moreover, even if the democratically elected president of Catalonia loses all appeals available to him, he could then ask for asylum in Belgium (apparently, Belgium is the only EU member country in which EU citizens can ask for asylum). And then you would really get into a mix-up of EU versus Belgian versus Spanish laws. In a way this is good, it would test a system that is not prepared at all for such divergences.

    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...ng-eu-collapse
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #152
    It seems that the great plan of Catalan nationalists for independence was “Step aside while I make a revolution, otherwise I’m going to call you names. On Twitter. And maybe make a video on Youtube and share it with my friends on Facebook.” That’s it.
    While Kurds are fighting Islamic terrorists and brandishing AK-47s in Syria, Catalans are brandishing their Iphones. The former are fighting for independence, the latter look like they are attending a pop concert.
    Catalans over-relied on social media outrage to support their cause, just to find out that after a few days, people go back to their lives and lose interest. Nobody lifted a finger in favour of Catalonia. Not even Catalans themselves. It might be that the region is still wealthy despite some problems, hence a civil war would result in more material loss than the Catalans are ready to put up with for the prize of independence. This is not how revolutions are done.

    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...vement-failing
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #153
    Catalonia’s former leader Carles Puigdemont was spared custody on Monday, when a Brussels court ruled he could remain at liberty in Belgium until it had heard Spanish charges against him of rebellion.

    The court’s decision means Puigdemont, who left Spain last month after Madrid fired his secessionist government and dissolved the Catalan parliament, is free to campaign for independence in an election in the region on Dec 21.
    Puigdemont said on Monday his government’s actions were legitimate and criticized the Spanish judicial system for a “clear lack of independence and neutrality”.
    The December vote is shaping up to be a de facto independence referendum.
    Puigdemont’s PDeCAT and another secessionist party said at the weekend they might run on a combined ticket, but would need to make a decision on any formal alliance - which might also include other parties - by a deadline of Tuesday.
    Alliances could however also form after the election.

    More at: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-sp...-idUSKBN1D616K
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #154
    General strike shuts down roads and railways in Catalonia

    https://www.thelocal.es/20171108/general-strike-shuts-down-roads-and-railways-in-catalonia
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #155
    Spanish Supreme Court frees Catalan parliament speaker on bail

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/spains-supreme-court-over-independence-vote-case-catalan-162616196--business.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #156
    Protesters demanding the release of separatist leaders.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/protester...174816081.html

    Catalonia's two main grassroots independence groups called the march, under the slogan "Freedom for the political prisoners," after their leaders were remanded in custody on charges of sedition last month.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  9. #157
    Spanish Government Blames Russian "Dezinformatsiya" Campaign For Catalan Uprising

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-10/spanish-government-blames-russian-dezinformatsiya-campaign-catalan-uprising
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #158
    The attorney general of Spain, who was prosecuting the separatist leaders of Catalonia, died Nov. 18 while in Argentina for an international law conference, The New York Times reported Nov. 19.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...paratists-dies

    ???
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #159
    Mr. Maza, 66, died in a Buenos Aires hospital, shortly after saying he felt unwell. His death was confirmed by Spain’s justice minister, Rafael Catalá, and attributed to a kidney infection.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/19/w...y-general.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #160
    I've read that Spain has strict hate speech laws, especially when the speech is directed at police, legal system or the Royal family.
    A lot of Spanish legal experts are saying that the charges of rebellion are over the top. It'll be interesting to see how the new prosecutor deals with this.

    On 20 October, the European Union has been awarded a prize at a prestigious Spanish awards ceremony, presided over by the King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia.
    Antonio Tajani (President of the European Parliament), Jean-Claude Juncker (President of the European Commission), and Donald Tusk (President of the European Council) jointly received the Princess of Asturias Award for Concord.
    Also several members of the Spanish cabinet were present, including Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy.


    The Catalonia crisis was one of the “highlights” in King Felipe’s speech.
    Felipe described Spain as “open and generous:
    a country where every single Spaniard can recognise themselves’ and ‘a country where a variety of peoples have found protection, recognition and respect for their languages, their cultures, their customs and traditions, and their institutions, building a common heritage that enriches and identifies us as Spaniards.

    We, Spanish people, would not like to tear down what we have built together with everyone’s contributions – an invaluable legacy that belongs to us all. This was possible because Spain is rooted in a real desire to live together and understand one another, to abide by the law and the rules of democracy, to acknowledge our mistakes so as not to make them again.
    http://marcaespana.es/en/news/societ...-unity-and-law

    These monarchs are oh so democratic, of course until somebody disagrees with them...


    On 9 November, Jean-Claude Juncker was in Spain again today, to scoop an honorary degree in Salamanca.
    Some government ministers were present: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017...n-nationalism/

    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty



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  14. #161
    Catalan Independence Drive Fizzles: Poll Shows Only 24% Want Split From Spain

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-27/catalan-independence-drive-fizzles-poll-shows-only-24-want-split-spain



    It's almost like Puigdemont did this on purpose. ????
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ...

    Free country? OK.

    Firstly, Spaniards would not know freedom if it gave them a blowjob.

    Secondly, if true, place your money on Themme finding a way to put that nonsense to a conspicuously unpleasant end.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think the globalist interests are playing games where one-world hegemony is concerned.

    It should prove interesting to get a load of what the Catalonians consider to constitute freedom. It should prove at least equally interesting to see how the rest of Spain meets this heresy.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Catalan Independence Drive Fizzles: Poll Shows Only 24% Want Split From Spain

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-27/catalan-independence-drive-fizzles-poll-shows-only-24-want-split-spain



    It's almost like Puigdemont did this on purpose. ????
    Just so he could go to jail?

    Seems they lost the momentum.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  17. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Free country? OK.

    Firstly, Spaniards would not know freedom if it gave them a blowjob.

    Secondly, if true, place your money on Themme finding a way to put that nonsense to a conspicuously unpleasant end.

    I could be wrong, but I don't think the globalist interests are playing games where one-world hegemony is concerned.

    It should prove interesting to get a load of what the Catalonians consider to constitute freedom. It should prove at least equally interesting to see how the rest of Spain meets this heresy.
    and the lessons learned from the E.U. so as to squash further attempts by other E.U. nations/areas that want to separate. Hell, come to think of it. Im sure political parties around the world are taking notes on what to do to keep the sheep in line.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Just so he could go to jail?
    I expect he will be rewarded somehow after he drops out of the public eye.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    Seems they lost the momentum.
    Puigdemont killed it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I expect he will be rewarded somehow after he drops out of the public eye.



    Puigdemont killed it.
    keep our eye on his story and the others that were jailed with him. Wonder if they end up with yachts living in Greece.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  20. #167
    Because the jailed members of the Catalan Government are locked up, they can’t run their political campaign for the coming 21 December election.
    Some analysts think that this could work in their advantage.
    The imprisonment of two prominent activists and eight former ministers is made more unusual by the fact that most of them are in the middle of a political campaign.

    Seven of the eight imprisoned ministers are running for re-election to the Catalan parliament on 21 December. Jordi Sànchez, one of the two imprisoned activists, has decided to stand on a list with the former Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont. But he has struggled to find out who else he is running with.

    "The prison authorities didn't let me give him the list of candidates," said his lawyer, Jordi Pina, "So I had to hold it up to the glass."

    (…)
    The potential penalties are severe. If convicted of rebellion, the former cabinet ministers face up to 35 years in prison. The two activists, who face the lesser charge of sedition, face a maximum sentence of 10 years.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42136236



    A delegation of MEPs found out that the “the right to access any European prison” doesn’t apply in the Kingdom of Spain.
    “We have not found any kind of cooperation from the government in Madrid,” said Italian MEP Eleonora Forenza, who forms part of a delegation of 16 MEPs who want to visit imprisoned Catalan government members. “They are making it more and more difficult for this delegation to be able to visit the political prisoners," Forenza added, calling the situation “unacceptable.” "We demand their freedom, but also our right to visit them," she insisted.

    No explanations

    “For now we have not had any reasoned response with explanations,” said French-born Marie-Pierre Vieu. “We find it extremely serious,” she added, recalling that MEPs have the right to access any European prison. “We ask to be respected,” she went on to say, “to come and talk with the democratically-elected politicians.”
    http://catalannews.com/politics/item...-and-activists

    The locked up Catalan politicians hope to be released on bail so they can be with their families and take part in the election campaign.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty

  21. #168
    There a Spanish forum member on Davidicke.com that has made some good posts on this topic (which I have changed a little and reposted here...).

    When the Spanish courts issued a European Arrest Warrant for Carles Puigdemont, several government ministers announced that they had full confidence in the Belgian justice system. They pointed out that Belgium is a democracy “just like Spain”.
    It was looking like Belgium would reject the warrant altogether, over concerns that the Spanish legal system is prosecuting Puigdemont because he’s a political dissident.

    Attempting to save face, the Spanish Supreme Court withdrew the arrest warrant, which the Government and media in Madrid described as an “intelligent move”.
    The newspaper El Mundo tried to spin the news with the headline: “Supreme Court traps Puigdemont”. They claim that he now has no excuse for staying in Belgium and should return to Catalonia for the election campaign (of course he'd be arrested immediately at arriving in Spain).

    On Friday the Spanish Justice Minister was in Brussels trying to persuade the EU to change the rules on the European Arrest Warrant, to make the procedure “quicker and easier”.
    The minister claimed that European law needs to be brought up to date by including crimes that are peculiar to Spain, such as rebellion and sedition. He even argued that the change is needed because the warrant issued against Puigdemont didn't bring about the "expected result".

    The EU didn’t grant the request by Spain, and answered: “We do not see any need to change their functioning, in terms of the list of crimes that can be included": http://www.elnacional.cat/en/politic...19708_102.html
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty



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  23. #169
    Spanish Crisis Returns: Separatists Win Catalan Election In Huge Blow To Rajoy

    Despite growing expectations that Catalan separatist fervor had abated in the aftermath of the post-independence fiasco, consensus was once again set for disappointment and on Thursday night, Spain was thrown back into chaos after the three Catalan separatist parties, Junts per Catalunya, Republican Catalan Left and the CUP, held on to a small but critical majority in the Catalan regional parliamentary election, dealing a stunning rebuke to Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy and his attempt to bury the Catalan independence movement.
    With virtually all of the vote counted, the separatists held on to 70 seats, down from 72 in the 2015 election and 1 less than the initial exit polls predicted, just weeks after PM Mariano Rajoy fired the former first minister, Carles Puigdement and his entire government after the held what Madrid dubbed an "illegal referendum" and declared independence on October 27. Yet while the separatists won as a group, the biggest individual winner was the Ciudadanos party, which gained 300,000 more votes and 12 more seats compared to its 2015 position. It was also the single biggest party to emerge from today's election with a total of 37 seats. Meanwhile for Rajoy's People's Party, the result was a disaster as it finished in last place among the mainstream parties with just three seats.

    Source: The Spain Report
    But even more importantly, it was a personal victory for Carles Puigdemont, the ousted Catalan president who campaigned in self-imposed exile from Brussels. His Junts per Catalunya emerged as the most-popular separatist party, handing him a mandate to lead the secession campaign, after Junts per Catalunya beat Oriol Junqueras and Republican Catalan Left to lead the separatist block. As The Spain Report noted, Junts per Catalunya obtained slightly more than 900,000 votes and 34 seats. Esquerra won slightly fewer than 900,000 votes but only 32 seats. The radical-left, pro-independence CUP lost six of its ten seats and about half of its votes.
    The Catalan Socialist Party (PSC, Miquel Iceta) gained 50,000 votes and one seat.
    The Popular Party in Catalonia, led by Xavier García Albiol, lost eight of its eleven seats, dropping to just three, and, like the CUP, approximately half of its votes. As
    Catalunya en Comú Podem, the Podemos brand for these regional elections, lost three seats compared to its previous brand result in 2015, falling to eight seats.
    Both blocks obtained more votes than in 2015 due to a turnout that rose six points to 82% compared to 2015.
    And while the Ciudadanos ascent was remarkable, the take home of the night is that in this implicit referendum, the Catalan separatist sentiment once again prevailed as Carles Puigdement observed.
    Speaking in a press conference in Brussels, the deposed Catalan president said that "the people of Catalonia have given a lesson to the world: the Catalan republic has beaten the monarchy of the 155." He was referring to the Constitutional Article 155 which the Spanish government used to take control of Catalan government. "The Spanish state has been defeated" Puigdement said and added that "Election results mean reparation, rectification and restitution are needed."
    The deposed leader also said that "the legitimate government must return immediately power in Catalonia", envisioning of course, himself.
    He concluded by claiming that "things are even better for secessionists today than they were two years ago, as the group has gained parliamentary power" and threatened that "if PM Rajoy continues to apply the same recipes he will continue to get the same results."

    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...d-secession-ca
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #170
    65% of vote in
    71 seats to the independence parties
    *68 seats needed to get an absolute parliamentary majority*

    VIVA LA REPUBLICA DE CATALUNYA

    VOP Today
    Supporters of Catalonia’s independence receive the majority of seats in parliament
    https://voiceofpeopletoday.com/suppo...ts-parliament/




    ►Shouts of "Puigdemont our president!" in the electoral seat of @JuntsXCat.

    Steven Marwick
    ►Rajoy has gambled and lost today, he must resign and make way for someone willing to negotiate in good faith with the new government of #Catalonia.
    This is a political impasse which requires political solutions. The judiciary has no proper part in it.

    The Associated Press
    ►BREAKING: Party of ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont claims victory for separatist bloc in regional election.

    Russian Market
    ►ARTADI SAYS MADRID'S TAKEOVER OF CATALONIA DEFEATED BY BALLOTS

    ►PP (Rajoy) takes only 3 seats. It's worst result since the founding of the party. Total humiliation.





    Puigdemont: "The Catalan Republic has won in the monarchy of article 155. Let them take note!"

    "We have kept something fundamental: the legitimacy of the institution and its historical continuity"

    Puigdemont goes to Europe and asks those who have supported the Spanish government to change their strategy
    because "the Rajoy recipe does not work"


    Puigdemont to the Spanish government: "Suspend the 155, release the political prisoners and start making politics, Mr. Rajoy"

  25. #171
    Too bad that the nationalists retained the majority, but at least the fairly liberal Ciudadanos gained some seats.

  26. #172
    https://www.thelocal.es/20171229/raj...demont-belgium

    [sic]

    Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy on Friday denounced as "absurd" the idea that ousted Catalan president Carles Puigdemont could govern from Belgium where he is in self-imposed exile to avoid arrest.

    "It is absurd to pretend to be the president of a region when you live abroad, and even more absurd to pretend that you are carrying out this function from abroad," Rajoy said in his end-of-year press conference in Madrid.

    His remarks came a week after Catalan separatist parties claimed victory in a divisive snap election.

    Madrid had called the poll after Catalan lawmakers declared independence on October 27, triggering Spain's worst political crisis since democracy was reinstated following the death of dictator Francisco Franco in 1975.

    Following the declaration, Rajoy had sacked Catalonia's government, dissolved its parliament and stripped the region of its treasured autonomy.

    Puigdemont fled to Brussels to avoid arrest over charges linked to rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds.

    Other independence leaders, including Puigdemont's former deputy Oriol Junqueras, are behind Spanish bars pending trial.

    Rajoy reiterated Friday that a vote to choose a new Catalan president would take place within 10 days after the new regional parliament reconvenes on January 17.

    Puigdemont's advisors are currently looking into whether he can run in next month's ballot from abroad.

    Although the unionist Ciudadanos had the biggest share of the vote in the October ballot, three separatist groupings headed by Puigdemont retained their parliamentary majority.

    The pro-independence parties have said they no longer plan to push for independence unilaterally and favour a negotiated settlement instead.


    Rajoy, however, has repeatedly ruled out holding talks with Puigdemont.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  27. #173
    The Czech Republic and Slovakia offer themselves as an example for Catalan independence

    The prime ministers of the Czech Republic and Slovakia, Andrej Babiš and Robert Fico, have said today at a joint event that the peaceful split of Czechoslovakia into two states could be an example for Spain as a way to solve the case of Catalan independence. ...
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  28. #174
    Catalonia Elects Pro-Independence Speaker

    Today, in a well-deserved slap in the face to prime minister Mariano Rajoy, Pro-Independence Groups Take Back Control of Catalonia's Parliament.


    Pro-independence parties took control of the Catalan parliament on Wednesday in what they hailed as the first step towards restoring the regional government after almost three months of direct rule from Madrid.
    Celebrations erupted among flag-waving supporters in Barcelona as Roger Torrent, of the pro-independence Republican Left (ERC), was voted head of the speaker’s committee, the chamber’s decision-making body.
    Addressing the chamber, Mr. Torrent denounced the legal proceedings against much of the pro-independence leadership. He said the imprisonment of three parliamentarians - including Oriol Junqueras, the former vice president and ERC leader - was “absolutely unjustified, and impedes them being able to freely exercise their rights”.
    Opposition parties had tried to thwart the election of Mr. Torrent with a request - swiftly denied - that the parliament reject delegated votes from the three jailed politicians, whose empty seats were marked with yellow ribbons. Mr. Puigdemont and four former cabinet members in self-imposed exile in Brussels dropped their attempts to vote via delegates after Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish prime minister, warned he would appeal such a move at the Constitutional Court.
    Parliament Reconvenes Pro-Independence Groups Win

    The BBC reports Catalonia MPs Elect Separatist Speaker as Parliament Reconvenes.
    Separatist lawmakers secured control of parliament on Wednesday with the election of Mr. Torrent, a member of the left-wing separatist ERC party. He beat an anti-independence candidate by 65 votes to 56.
    The session was broadcast to a flag-waving crowd outside.
    ERC's leader, Oriol Junqueras, is among three Catalan MPs in prison awaiting trial over the independence push. But they were allowed to vote to select a parliamentary speaker via proxies. Five others in self-imposed exile in Belgium did not assign proxies. Yellow ribbons were placed on their empty seats.
    The MPs also met to select a board who will decide who gets the first chance to form a government. It will have two weeks to pick a president. It is likely to nominate Mr. Puigdemont to lead the region, and his supporters say he could potentially do so via video link from Belgium.
    Mr Puigdemont's spokesman, Joan Maria Piqué, told the BBC's Gavin Lee that it was perfectly plausible for him to be president remotely. He pointed to how Donald Trump uses Twitter as a prime source of interaction in the US.
    But lawyers for the Catalan parliament council, an advisory body, have said it would not be legal or within the Spanish constitution to allow for a president in exile.
    Silence

    Mainstream media, Mariano Rajoy, and the EU are silent.
    The only news is from the BBC, the Financial Times, and The Telegraph.
    Real Vote

    The real vote was 70-56 as five in exile did not vote.
    To the dismay of Rajoy, the non-aligned Comu-Podem sat the vote out. Comu-Podem does not favor independence but they do favor an honest vote on the matter.
    The people have spoken, again. I am quite pleased with this result.
    Catalonia Si!


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ndence-speaker
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #175
    Spain's Interior Minister Jose Ignacio Zoido has a warning for Carles Puigdemont: "don't try to sneak back into Barcelona, you will be caught."
    The ousted former Catalan leader and infamous separatist, Carles Puigdemont who remains in self-imposed exile in Brussels and who was again picked by the Catalan parliament to be its president, may be tempted to cross into Spain "by helicopter, light aircraft or boat" so that the regional parliament can reappoint him officially, Zoido told broadcaster Antena 3 in an interview. The police have deployed specialist teams to monitor his movements and will catch him if he tries.

    "Justice will be done with Carles Puigdemont", Zoido told Antena 3 on Tuesday morning, adding that the former First Minister had "fled" from the courts. "He has gone to countries where they're not paying much attention to him but where he can make a lot of noise."
    As a reminder, "making a lot of noise" in Europe, especially when it goes against the establishment, is frowned upon.
    Why the bizarre statement? Because, as Bloomberg notes, the Spanish media is abuzz with speculation that "Puigdemont might attempt a dramatic return for an investiture vote in the Catalan parliament this month. He fled to Brussels in October after Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy fired him for engineering a declaration of independence from Spain and he faces arrest if he attempts to return."
    Asked about the possibility that Puigdemont might try to sneak back across the border to attempt another embarrassing media coup for the Spanish government, Zoido replied that Spanish security forces were vigilant and prepared, with Civil Guard and National Police experts working on the problem.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-back-boot-car
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #176
    Spanish Government Arrests Catalan-Based Critic Using "Hate-Speech Law"

    Spain's government has gotten into the business of regulating speech with predictably awful results. An early adopter of Blues Lives Matter-esque policies, Spain went full police state, passing a law making it a crime to show "disrespect" to law enforcement officers.
    The predictable result? The arrest of someone for calling cops "slackers" in a Facebook post.
    Spain's government is either woefully unaware of the negative consequences of laws like this or, worse, likes the negative consequences. After all, it doesn't hurt Spain's government beyond a little reputational damage. It only hurts residents of Spain.
    When you're already unpopular, thanks to laws like these and suppression of a Catalan independence vote, what difference does it make if you're known better for shutting down dissent than actually protecting citizens from hateful speech?
    One Catalan resident is getting the full "hate speech" rap-and-ride.
    A Catalan high school teacher, Manel Riu, appeared in court on Thursday accused of hate speech for his tweets and Facebook posts criticizing Spain, government members and the Guardia Civil police.
    Over a hundred people escorted him to court in Tremp, west of Catalonia, where he denied any wrongdoing and asked for the case’s dismissal.

    As a Catalan, Riu certainly has reason to criticize the Spanish government. During the last attempted referendum, the Spanish government sent police to seize ballots, voters' cellphones, and ordered Google to remove a voting location app from the Play store. The evidence against Riu is composed of 119 tweets gathered by the Guardia Civil, Spain's oldest law enforcement agency -- one that blurs the line between playing soldier and playing cop far more often than its US counterparts.



    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ng-hate-speech
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #177
    Former Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont faces arrest in Finland after authorities there received an international warrant for his detention issued by Spain, Reuters reported.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...catalan-leader
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Former Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont faces arrest in Finland after authorities there received an international warrant for his detention issued by Spain, Reuters reported.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...catalan-leader

    What about the others that left? I thought there were about 9 people? If my memory serves me right. Btw, thanks for these updates.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  34. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls' Revere View Post
    What about the others that left? I thought there were about 9 people? If my memory serves me right. Btw, thanks for these updates.
    I haven't seen anything about the others, it seems Puigdemont is getting special attention.
    I thought he was still in Belgium so I don't know why they sent a warrant to Finland either.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I haven't seen anything about the others, it seems Puigdemont is getting special attention.
    I thought he was still in Belgium so I don't know why they sent a warrant to Finland either.
    To limit his options on travel.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

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