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Thread: [59 Dead] "Active Shooter" in Las Vegas, fully automatic rifle fire, at least 2 rifles heard.

  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Yeah. But I'd wager that practically none of this kind of thing would happen if the gunner knows everybody is armed. I think that he gets his confidence from knowing that few, if any, of his targets are armed and can defend themselves.

    We call em sitting ducks when we're duck hunting. By rule, you're not supposed to shoot a sitting duck. It's unethical. He doesn't have a chance. If he's armed with his wings, then, he has a chance to escape unharmed.
    Yeah... I'm with you in most cases, but not this one. This guy obviously had a death wish and wanted to take as many people with as possible. He knew he wasn't getting away when he started.

    Sometimes, you just have to chalk it up to, wrong place, wrong time. There will always be psychos out there. Luckily, they are few.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah... I'm with you in most cases, but not this one. This guy obviously had a death wish and wanted to take as many people with as possible. He knew he wasn't getting away when he started.

    Sometimes, you just have to chalk it up to, wrong place, wrong time. There will always be psychos out there. Luckily, they are few.
    Yep. I agree.

    I was just generally speaking to the fact.

    Carpe Diem!

  4. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Yeah. But I'd wager that practically none of this kind of thing would happen if the gunner knows everybody is armed. I think that he gets his confidence from knowing that few, if any, of his targets are armed and can defend themselves.

    We call em sitting ducks when we're duck hunting. By rule, you're not supposed to shoot a sitting duck. It's unethical. He doesn't have a chance. If he's armed with his wings, then, he has a chance to escape unharmed.
    There was no way anyone in the crowd could have done anything to stop him. They act like Las Vegas is the most securit minded place in the world. I guess we'll see once all the surveilance video shows up.

    This story will not be any kind of support for gun rights people. There doesn't seem to be anything anyone could have done. How did he get in with 10 guns? I know I used to work in a convention hotel. People have all kinds of baggage if they are making presentations or setting up a booth.
    Last edited by euphemia; 10-02-2017 at 11:24 AM.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  5. #124

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    So what is the solution to this madness?
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  6. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    So what is the solution to this madness?
    Number 1, don't have concerts near anything where a shooter can overlook the crowd.

  7. #126

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    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  8. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Number 1, don't have concerts near anything where a shooter can overlook the crowd.
    That's a tall order.... I can't think of any mass gathering of people where there ISN'T some tall structure near by. Obviously the left will call for #GunControlNow.... and they will say we don't have any answers.... so what is the answer? Outside of having a counter-sniper setup in an overwatch position for every large crowd in America, what could be done to prevent this?

    The Gun used is most likely a LEGALLY purchased weapon, modified using a kit to make it automatic.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  9. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    There was no way anyone in the crowd could have done anything to stop him. They act like Las Vegas is the most security minded place in the world. I guess we'll see once all the surveilance video shows up.
    Yeah, I know.

    As far as security, I dunno. I'll say this, though. My son just got back from Vegas. He went out there with some of his friends before college started back up. He was basically right there where this took place.

    I was able to watch him walk down the strip any time I wanted via department of transportation cameras. Did I? I plead da fif. But I could do that. And that's just the traffic cameras, alone. Those zoom, btw.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-02-2017 at 11:36 AM.

    Carpe Diem!

  10. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    That's a tall order.... I can't think of any mass gathering of people where there ISN'T some tall structure near by. Obviously the left will call for #GunControlNow.... and they will say we don't have any answers.... so what is the answer?
    The answer? $#@! happens.

    Yeah, it's not the best answer, especially for those hell-bent on "preventing the next tragedy", but it's reality. Part of human nature is such that sometimes one of us will go off the deep end and kill a bunch of people. There's nothing you can do to prevent it. They'll just find another way. And all the laws in the world are useless.

    We have to be willing to accept a certain level of chaos and destruction. It's sad to say, but it's a reality. I choose to focus on how rare these events are. And that should make us thankful.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  11. #130

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    Asking how to secure yourself from a man w/ rifles up in a convention room is like asking how you secure yourself from dying as a passenger in a plane about to crash. Its the wrong question to be asking, because you put yourself in a vulnerable situation. We all take risks - that's life, and the House always wins.

    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  12. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    So what is the solution to this madness?
    Likely isn't a solution. How can you legislate morality? Can't. How can you legislate competency? Can't.

    Only thing you can really do is say, hey, watch that stupid mothertrucker, he ain't wrapped too tight. Of course, even that conclusion requires contact by a perceptive person in order to figure out that he ain't wrapped too tight.

    So, now we're left with policing.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-02-2017 at 11:51 AM.

    Carpe Diem!

  13. #132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The answer? $#@! happens.

    Yeah, it's not the best answer, especially for those hell-bent on "preventing the next tragedy", but it's reality. Part of human nature is such that sometimes one of us will go off the deep end and kill a bunch of people. There's nothing you can do to prevent it. They'll just find another way. And all the laws in the world are useless.

    We have to be willing to accept a certain level of chaos and destruction. It's sad to say, but it's a reality. I choose to focus on how rare these events are. And that should make us thankful.
    I'm talking about where this will end politically. I agree there is little that can be done, however the frequency and body count of these mass shootings is increasing. These things used to happen roughly every 6 months... now they happen all the damn time and incredibly deadly. I know the odds that I will be a victim of such a shooting is next to zero, but look at it from a layman's POV.... they see hundreds of dead people and want to do something to prevent the next one. Simply saying to them "$#@! happens" won't work. I'd like to know what people here say to those people on the left calling for gun control.


    For example, I am saying to leftists that the gun was already illegal, it was illegal to bring those weapons into the casino, and the weapons were fired into a gun free zone. I still don't have an answer as to how we could HELP prevent these things from happening so often and so deadly.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  14. #133

    Default

    The suspected gunman behind the Las Vegas massacre made several large gambling transactions in recent weeks, according to law enforcement officials.

    The transactions in Las Vegas by Stephen Paddock were in the tens of thousands, the officials said.
    ...
    https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/la...tified-n806471
    Habitual gambler. Going out with a bang? Punishing Vegas?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #134

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    There's no top-bottom solution.
    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  16. #135

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    How'd he get all of those guns through the lobby of the hotel, anyway? I've broken guns down, but they don't all break all the way down. He has long guns in there. And they only have that one little cart for your stuff at the hotels. And gun cases look like gun cases.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-02-2017 at 12:02 PM.

    Carpe Diem!

  17. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Number 1, don't have concerts near anything where a shooter can overlook the crowd.
    Or sports. And don't put hotels where people can harm people on the ground. I'm surprised this hasn't happened in New York or Chicago.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  18. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    That's a tall order.... I can't think of any mass gathering of people where there ISN'T some tall structure near by. Obviously the left will call for #GunControlNow.... and they will say we don't have any answers.... so what is the answer? Outside of having a counter-sniper setup in an overwatch position for every large crowd in America, what could be done to prevent this?

    The Gun used is most likely a LEGALLY purchased weapon, modified using a kit to make it automatic.
    A big thing that could be done to prevent all of this would be to quit meddling in other country's affairs and to remove troops from the dozen or so active conflicts they are involved in.

    Mass shootings have been popularized and US foreign policy has created enemies who wish to inflict harm on the US. Self defense is the only solution, these incidents would be less likely if the US had a sane foreign policy (and didn't drug children), and there is not a law conceivable which can or would prevent all tragedies.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  19. #138

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    People need a heart change to stop doing evil.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  20. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Any bets on whether this thing was engineered for the purpose of political gain?
    If so, my surprise level would be somewhere about zero.

  21. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Any bets on whether this thing was engineered for the purpose of political gain?
    Maybe. But I don't think so. It doesn't need to be. Something like this is bound to happen. Hell, having walked the Strip myself and seen how many people ar eout, this guy would've killed more people if he had just done a drive by. You don't need to engineer it. You just have to be ready to take advantage of it. Which I promis eyou there are people ready to take advantage of this event. They probably already have legislation written and were just waiting for such a tragedy to strike.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  22. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    ISIS claims responsibility for Las Vegas massacre
    http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/isis-cl...egas-massacre/

    Las Vegas shooting: Isis claims responsibility for deadliest gun massacre in US history
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7978941.html

    BREAKING: ISIS claims responsibility for Las Vegas shooting - 'he converted months ago'
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...sponsible-Amaq
    Likely false. One of the main differences between al-Qaeda and ISIS is that ISIS will claim anything it thinks makes it look tough while al-Qaede actually cares about its brand and plans things out in detail.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  23. #142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    I'm talking about where this will end politically. I agree there is little that can be done, however the frequency and body count of these mass shootings is increasing. These things used to happen roughly every 6 months... now they happen all the damn time and incredibly deadly. I know the odds that I will be a victim of such a shooting is next to zero, but look at it from a layman's POV.... they see hundreds of dead people and want to do something to prevent the next one. Simply saying to them "$#@! happens" won't work. I'd like to know what people here say to those people on the left calling for gun control.


    For example, I am saying to leftists that the gun was already illegal, it was illegal to bring those weapons into the casino, and the weapons were fired into a gun free zone. I still don't have an answer as to how we could HELP prevent these things from happening so often and so deadly.
    Yeah, I hear ya. "$#@! happens" is the right answer. The politically correct answer??? I have no idea.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  24. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah... I'm with you in most cases, but not this one. This guy obviously had a death wish and wanted to take as many people with as possible. He knew he wasn't getting away when he started.

    Sometimes, you just have to chalk it up to, wrong place, wrong time. There will always be psychos out there. Luckily, they are few.
    I think the latest studies in psychopathy suggest that it's about 10% in the US.

    Not all are violent...

  25. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Or sports. And don't put hotels where people can harm people on the ground. I'm surprised this hasn't happened in New York or Chicago.
    It used to happen all the time actually. Then Congress repealed the 18th Amendment.

    It happened in Dallas once too.
    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  26. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, I hear ya. "$#@! happens" is the right answer. The politically correct answer??? I have no idea.
    There will always be killers among us and if determined enough they could kill just as many people without a gun as was killed at this venue.

    You can reduce the risk of mass shootings like this by removing restrictions on concealed carry. If everyone was armed at that concert less people would have died. The shooter would have had to take cover or been killed from return fire. Gun control killed those people. Every politician responsible for these laws has blood on their hands.

  27. #146

    Default

    CBS vice president of strategic transactions, Hayley Geftman-Gold - “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc country music fans often are Republican gun toters,” Geftman-Gold’s comments read.

    Sigh.



    Carpe Diem!

  28. #147

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    From the never let a crisis go to waste file.....

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nce/723357001/

    'Find the courage' to address gun violence
    Nicole Gaudiano, USA TODAY

    WASHINGTON — Former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, who was shot at a 2011 constituent meeting in Tucson, called on her former colleagues once again to have the "courage" to address gun violence following Sunday night's mass shooting in Las Vegas.

    At least 58 people were killed and 515 more were wounded at an outdoor concert when a gunman opened fire from a hotel room above in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

    The Arizona Democrat said in a statement, "I know this feeling of heartbreak and horror too well," adding that that she prays for the victims, their families and friends — as well as her former colleagues.

    "I am praying they find the courage it will take to make progress on the challenging issue of gun violence," she said. "I know they got into politics for the same reason I did — to make a difference, to get things done. Now is the time to take positive action to keep America safer. Do not wait. The nation is counting on you.”

    Democrats joined the call for new congressional action on guns, led by Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., whose statement saying "It's time for Congress to get off its ass and do something" generated a firestorm on social media.

    The 2011 shooting at Giffords’ “Congress on your Corner” event killed six of her constituents and wounded 12 others. It was the first assassination attempt on a member of Congress meeting with constituents.

    Following the shooting, Giffords and her husband, retired astronaut Mark Kelly, who are both gun owners, co-founded the gun-control group Americans for Responsible Solutions.

    Her full statement:

    “I know this feeling of heartbreak and horror too well. The massacre in Las Vegas is a grave tragedy for our nation. This must stop — we must stop this.

    “I am praying for the victims of this shooting, their families and friends. And I am so grateful for the heroism and professionalism of the first responders who acted so courageously to bring this horror to an end. I send the injured all my strength: you have a long road ahead. Be strong. You can do it. My heart is with the city of Las Vegas and all who were touched by this tragedy.

    “But I am praying for my former colleagues, our elected leaders, too. I am praying they find the courage it will take to make progress on the challenging issue of gun violence. I know they got into politics for the same reason I did — to make a difference, to get things done. Now is the time to take positive action to keep America safer. Do not wait. The nation is counting on you.”
    "Even an establishment Republican like Jerry Moran is far more libertarian you are." Traditional Conservative

    "You're a far more horrible person than she (Bristol Palin) will ever be." angelatc

  29. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    There will always be killers among us and if determined enough they could kill just as many people without a gun as was killed at this venue.

    You can reduce the risk of mass shootings like this by removing restrictions on concealed carry. If everyone was armed at that concert less people would have died. The shooter would have had to take cover or been killed from return fire. Gun control killed those people. Every politician responsible for these laws has blood on their hands.
    I would have hated to be a guest in that hotel in one of the other rooms if there was a concert full of drunk rednecks returning fire at a 10th? story hotel room.

  30. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    How'd he get all of those guns through the lobby of the hotel, anyway? I've broken guns down, but they don't all break all the way down...
    You swap barrels and use duffel bags. Also...

    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  31. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    CBS vice president of strategic transactions, Hayley Geftman-Gold - “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc country music fans often are Republican gun toters,” Geftman-Gold’s comments read.

    Sigh.


    Cool. I'm not sympathetic when Jews invent holohoaxes to get get free $#@!.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 10-02-2017 at 12:41 PM.
    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

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