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Thread: Michigan: Vaccinate Child Or Go To Jail (Mother vs Father)

  1. #1

    Default Michigan: Vaccinate Child Or Go To Jail (Mother vs Father)

    Michagan: Vaccinate Child Or Go To Jail (Mother vs Father)




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  3. #2

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    Is this any wonder this is Angelatc state?
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

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    Fathers have rights too. Boo hoo.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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    Well, medical freedom is out the door at this rate. It seems like a growing populace is content to exchange freedom for perceived safety. Even if it means using government to strap someone else down and forcibly inject them for the greater good.

    Of course, anyone who expresses the slightest bit of concern about 1 - the possible side effects, and, 2 - the exchange of freedom for security is immediately branded as somekind of conspiratorial, anti-science, kook.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-29-2017 at 10:04 AM.



  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post

    Of course, anyone who expresses the slightest bit of concern about 1 - the possible side effects, and, 2 - the exchange of freedom for security is immediately branded as somekind of conspiratorial, anti-science, kook.
    Strawman.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  7. #6

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    On a side note, does anyone remember the Nuremburg Trials? Well, during judgment of those war criminals, it ws said that there were 10 standards to which these criminals did not obey as 'physicians.'



    Guess what is number 1 on the Nuremberg Code (1947)



    Permissible Medical Experiments

    The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts:


    1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.



    The very first principle is voluntary consent. Which seems to be forgotten by today's leaders. This modern transition 'from recommended' to 'required' is well underway, and those who think the ends justify the means are willing to forcibly make sure everyone else complies.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-29-2017 at 09:45 AM.



  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Strawman.
    Caricaturing.



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    Of course, my snippet does reference age of consent. So that's the other side of it.



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    I am amazed that this story made mainstream press, and that it has traction.

    At Health Impact News we get leads on these kind of stories all the time. They are common (one parent forcing another parent to vaccinate a child during shared custody). Judges routinely favor the parent that wants the vaccine, even if they are not the custodial parent.
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    I am amazed that this story made mainstream press, and that it has traction.

    At Health Impact News we get leads on these kind of stories all the time. They are common (one parent forcing another parent to vaccinate a child during shared custody). Judges routinely favor the parent that wants the vaccine, even if they are not the custodial parent.
    This is why I never liked the idea of marriage licenses. The second you apply for one, you're effectively granting the State head of household. By asking the State for permission to have a family, you're technically admitting that you're not competent to raise a family and grant the State jurisdiction over the household.

    This has been used against parents. One example that comes to mind is that there was a group of parents opposing curricula in the school and the school responded to the parents that they couldn't oppose it since their marriage license relinquished authority over the children to the State upon application and grant of license. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. When you marry with a marriage license, you place yourself under a body of law which is anti-moral.

    That was in Wisconsin, I think. Somebody check me on that, please.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-29-2017 at 10:23 AM.



  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    This is why I never liked the idea of marriage licenses. The second you apply for one, you're effectively granting the State head of household. By asking the State for permission to have a family, you're technically admitting that you're not competent to raise a family and grant the State jurisdiction over the household.

    This has been used against parents. One example that comes to mind is that there was a group of parents opposing curricula in the school and the school responded to the parents that they couldn't oppose it since their marriage license relinquished authority over the children to the State upon application and grant of license. When you marry with a marriage license, your marriage is a creature of the State. When you marry with a marriage license, you place yourself under a body of law which is anti-moral.

    That was in Wisconsin, I think. Somebody check me on that, please.
    Law Professor Attacks Homeschoolers – Believes State Should Choose Parents for Babies

    A law professor at the oldest law school in the nation believes that there is no inherent right to parent one’s own children.

    In an interview for CRTV about homeschooling, Professor James G. Dwyer told syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin that:

    "The reason that parent-child relationship exists is because the state confers legal parenthood on people through its paternity and maternity laws."
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

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    By the way, if you watch the interview with the mother, she is NOT anti-vaccine. She has consented to her son being vaccinated, she just does not like the CDC schedule and wants to slow them down and not give so many at one time.
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    By the way, if you watch the interview with the mother, she is NOT anti-vaccine. She has consented to her son being vaccinated, she just does not like the CDC schedule and wants to slow them down and not give so many at one time.
    Her little darling is 9. At this point i suspect that she's just into drama.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    This is why I never liked the idea of marriage licenses. The second you apply for one, you're effectively granting the State head of household..
    I don't necessarily disagree, but it's likely the state would still be involved here because this is about parental rights.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Her little darling is 9. At this point i suspect that she's just into drama.
    Leave it to you to come up with unscientific criticisms like this, always using ad hominem attacks if someone doesn't agree with your view.

    Seriously, who cares what you "suspect"? This is a civil liberties issue, and the same issue the Nuremburg Code addresses as was mentioned above.
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Leave it to you to come up with unscientific criticisms like this, always using ad hominem attacks if someone doesn't agree with your view.

    Seriously, who cares what you "suspect"? This is a civil liberties issue, and the same issue the Nuremburg Code addresses as was mentioned above.
    She can't support a delayed vaccine schedule and claim science. There is no evidence to support her theories. Her theories coupled with the fact the kid's Dad had to get the courts involved indicates she's a drama hound.

    It isn't a civil liberty issue, because the father (not the state) is the person who wants his child vaccinated. He has as much right to determine how his child is raised as she does. He pandered to her for 9 years.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    I am amazed that this story made mainstream press, and that it has traction.

    At Health Impact News we ......
    That's your site?

    You literally make a living promoting this nonsense? Nice.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Of course, my snippet does reference age of consent. So that's the other side of it.
    Your new avatar bugs the $#@! out of me.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    On a side note, does anyone remember the Nuremburg Trials? Well, during judgment of those war criminals, it ws said that there were 10 standards to which these criminals did not obey as 'physicians.'



    Guess what is number 1 on the Nuremberg Code (1947)



    Permissible Medical Experiments

    The great weight of the evidence before us to effect that certain types of medical experiments on human beings, when kept within reasonably well-defined bounds, conform to the ethics of the medical profession generally. The protagonists of the practice of human experimentation justify their views on the basis that such experiments yield results for the good of society that are unprocurable by other methods or means of study. All agree, however, that certain basic principles must be observed in order to satisfy moral, ethical and legal concepts:


    1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.



    The very first principle is voluntary consent. Which seems to be forgotten by today's leaders. This modern transition 'from recommended' to 'required' is well underway, and those who think the ends justify the means are willing to forcibly make sure everyone else complies.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Natural Citizen again.

    Mandatory/Forced Vaccinations a Blatant Violation of the Nuremberg Code
    August 28, 2017 TLB Staff FREEDOM, HEALTH, Spotlight, Tyranny



    Mandatory/Forced Vaccinations a Blatant Violation of the Nuremberg Code

    “If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” – Thomas Jefferson

    By: Roger Landry (TLB)

    With respect to Unconstitutional Laws like California’s SB277 … Once a precedent of Medical Tyranny has been set … it is Fated to Spread.
    We as a nation stand on the precipice of medical tyranny with a supposed government agency (actually a corporate entity … FACT) mandated for our protection, seeking or proclaiming the power to mandate or force vaccinations on We The People through power or consent not granted it by said people. Yes I am talking about the CDC. When a government can force medication into the bodies of the Unwilling masses and their most vulnerable children without their consent, what makes them any less guilty than those put to death by the Nuremberg trials for medical experimentation against the consent or will of their participants, or crimes committed against humanity? We will discuss this in much more detail as this article progresses.

    A little recent history …

    Here is a short video discussing the ethical questions raised by many concerned parents during the debates leading up to the implementation of SB277 in California. The focus here is the concerns of these educated parents who were very aware of the possibilities of vaccine damage, wanting to know who gets to decide if the (possible) gains outweigh the (known) risks …


    If you think the opening paragraph a harsh statement, lets look at the facts.

    Vaccines are scientifically proven to have side-effects ranging from mild to catastrophic. These may include anything from a mild rash, a compromised immune system, sterility, cognitive dysfunction (brain damage), paralysis, cancer, to … death and many more “proven” issues not mentioned here.

    We are constantly being told by the healthcare personnel we trust that the chance of vaccine damage is “Less than one in a million”, yet statistics prove over and over again that this is a totally erroneous and massively understated number, with the actual occurrences of harm caused by vaccines being massively higher, and in fact … very common.

    Even with the cases reported being well in excess of the laughable quote stated above, we must also consider that the CDC itself states that as few as 1 – 10% of vaccine damage incidents are ever reported as such, making the possible total ‘Magnitudes Higher’ than what we are made aware of via the CDC or the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is stating Proposed Changes Restrict Vaccine Reaction Reporting, making these incidences of vaccine damage even more difficult to track or tally (intentionally).

    Now lets consider that the vaccine court (VICP) in this country has already paid out well over $3 BILLION in damages, and this is to only a very small percentage of possible claimants who actually get their cases heard, and can prove damage to a (known) biased system of supposed justice.

    So how rare can vaccine damage actually be … ???

    Approximately thirty thousand (30,000) VAERS reports are filed annually, and again the CDC states that only 10% (on the high side) of actual cases are ever reported … Yea do the math (300,000)! Now not all of these are life threatening, but how many are life wrecking? If even 10-20% are life threatening, wrecking, or stealing (30,000 – 60,000 a year), that is still a huge number, and magnitudes above “one in a million.” That would actually equate to less than 320 adverse reactions nation wide if EVERYONE in the country (about 320 million people) is vaccinated in a calendar year … But the fact is only about 25% of the public is vaccinated each year (all vaccinations combined) making the actual number about 80 cases of vaccine damage … if these doctors are correct (BULL SH#@T)!

    Now take the above numbers and plot probable vaccine damage with 10% reported over just the last decade … 300,000 x 10 = 3,000,000, and if we use 1% reported … 30,000,000! Now try to imagine the damage to the American society, or the entire vaccinated global community over the last century of ever increasing vaccine proliferation, and you will come to understand that vaccines may very well be responsible for more death and human suffering than ANY or maybe ALL wars in human history.

    We can easily see, with even the most rudimentary research, the possible incidence of vaccine damage is mind bending and so far above the lies and platitudes fed to us by those we are conditioned to trust, that it is almost inconceivable. Please understand that if the above statement (less than one in a million) were true … Vaccines would be among the safest mechanisms on this planet, but all data points Blatantly to Exactly the Opposite.

    When all is said and done We The People (more every day) are becoming painfully aware of the frequency and magnitude of Vaccine damage and we are horrified and angry!

    How is this Medical Experimentation?

    With the many proven side-effects, and NO long term Proven Efficacy or Harm Study on vaccines (or multiple dose vaccinations) ever accomplished or even commissioned by the CDC, that we are made aware of in a century of use in the USA (try to find one), they can have no scientific or factual claim to being an effective or safe mechanism. Thus by default, HOW can this be considered or categorized as anything more than Medical Experimentation?

    Please watch as Dr. Russell Blaylock connects the vaccine industry today to violations of the Nuremberg Code …



    How soon we forget!

    The Nuremberg trials where 23 defendants, all medical doctors, were accused of having been involved in the horrors of Nazi human experimentation, procedures and exposures without the consent of those experimented on. The trial lasted eight months, from December 9, 1946, to August 20, 1947. Of the 23 defendants, five were acquitted, seven received death sentences, and the remaining received prison sentences ranging from 10 years to life imprisonment. Those sentenced to death were hanged on June 2, 1948, in Landsberg Prison, Bavaria.

    What resulted from this was the ten points of the Nuremberg Code. Of these ten points the following are most germane to this discussion, those being:

    Nuremberg Code: Point #1

    The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him/her to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonable to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment. The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.

    Nuremberg Code: Point #5

    No experiment should be conducted where there is a prior reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects.

    Nuremberg Code: Point #7

    Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability, or death.

    Nuremberg Code: Point #9

    During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.

    Nuremberg Code: Point #10

    During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.

    Read the above five points again and UNDERSTAND their applicability!


    Image contributed to TLB by: Lucey Raye

    GUILTY AS CHARGED

    With forced or mandated vaccinations, the known side-effects of vaccines, the total lack of consideration (research) of either efficacy or harm, the lack of full (true) disclosure of any of the information stated above prior to application, the total immunity from prosecution of the entire chain from production to administration, and the denial or cover-up of known causality … ALL … of these above (Nuremberg Code) points are Grossly Violated.

    Read that last paragraph again and let it register!

    So lets get blatant … Tell me how any of this tyranny differs from handing a parent a six shot revolver and forcing them to point it at their, or their child’s head and partake in a session of Russian roulette. Sure the one in six odds are high when considering the lesser risk of vaccines, but I dare anyone to explain how the principal is not Exactly the Same! Armed with the proper knowledge (in full), would you acquiesce readily or willingly to the above scenario? Wouldn’t you at least want the choice of whether or not to partake, or subject your vulnerable child?

    All the points listed above speak directly to the Absolute Requirement of freedom of choice by the subject and a high standard of personal Morals and professional Ethics by those conducting the “experiment” … something totally lacking in forced or mandated vaccinations … FACT.

    If one stops to consider the testimony of individuals such as Dr. Thompson and other learned CDC whistle-blowers, the ethics question is a total and disastrous failure. If one also stops to consider the untold number of high level research scientists globally who have dedicated their lives and staked their professional reputations on proving the harm and danger of vaccines … proof gone unnoticed, ignored, or intentionally buried, by governments and health agencies, the morals question is also a catastrophic failure.

    This brings to mind a highly germane quote:

    “All of the barriers that are meant to protect our children–the government, the lawyers, the regulatory agencies, and the press, the checks and balances in our democratic system that are supposed to stand between corporate power and our little children–have been removed, and there’s only one barrier left, and that’s the parents, and we need to keep that in the equation.” Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
    Everything above is FACT or projection based on VAERS or CDC statistics and information, or easily proven via historical documentation, peer reviewed studies (many linked to on TLB’s website), and/or the governments own health agency websites such as the CDC, VAERS or VICP. Nothing stated here is hard to comprehend, made up or exaggerated!

    So do I have your attention yet? Because you will never be presented with this information, in this light … from our supposed health agencies, government, doctors or pharmaceutical companies.

    As we become more aware, and push back, their only recourse is to FORCE vaccines on us.

    If we the people do not stand together and make our voices heard on this crucial matter, the end result can only be a government who owns our bodies and can do with them what they please. If you feel the tyranny will stop at this point now that a precedent has been set in California and elsewhere … you are a fool !!!

    We The People must … Stand together … Speak in a unified voice … and live Free of Medical Tyranny !!!

    My Parting Shot …



    Additional Information:

    MANDATORY VACCINATION VIOLATES WORLD MEDICAL ASSOCIATION DECLARATION OF GENEVA

    CDC Proposes Indefinite Detainment, Forced Vaccination and Unlimited Surveillance For Travelers

    RFK Jr. decries ‘holocaust’ of forced vaccination
    http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/mand...uremberg-code/
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

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    They have no problem with forced blood draws at check points, why not just strap the little rug rats down on a gurney the first day of scrool? Let's just end this facade of "freedom" and "Constitution" and get on with it already.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    She can't support a delayed vaccine schedule and claim science.
    Yes she can. Medical doctors do it all the time, for a variety of medical/scientific reasons, which is why there are medical exemptions in every state. To state that every child has to meet the CDC schedule for vaccines arbitrarily without considering the medical needs of the child is UNSCIENTIFIC and medical tyranny.

    Besides the science, there are the civil liberties and legal issues. She lives in a state that allows philosophical and religious exemptions.
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

  23. #22

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    Ironically, he wrote almost 25 years ago that:

    No one should possess a right to control the life of another person no matter what reasons, religious or otherwise, he might have for wanting to do so.

    However, if government, both state and federal, were to implement his philosophy and suggestions into the family court system, then the logical outcome is what currently happens to thousands of children within the foster care/adoption system – the lives of the children are controlled by the foster parents and the social workers.
    ...Yea, I don't think this dud really thought this failed logic all they way through. So nobody should be talking him crap seriously.

    Also, I guess he conveniently forgot all about age of majority, mature minor doctrine, and emancipation?
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Your new avatar bugs the $#@! out of me.
    haha

    I'm scrolling down the page and I'm like "wtf? there's a bug on my monitor"
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Yes she can. Medical doctors do it all the time, for a variety of medical/scientific reasons, which is why there are medical exemptions in every state. To state that every child has to meet the CDC schedule for vaccines arbitrarily without considering the medical needs of the child is UNSCIENTIFIC and medical tyranny.

    Besides the science, there are the civil liberties and legal issues. She lives in a state that allows philosophical and religious exemptions.
    You're confusing needs and wants, also ignoring the real issue. The simple fact that there is no stated medical reason this child should not be vaccinated. I also live in her state and am quite familiar with the laws here.

    The real issue is that the child has two parents, and only one of them doesn't want the kid vaccinated.

    Also, you didn't answer: Is Health Impact News is your site? Do you literally earn your living by promoting anti-vax nonsense?
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  26. #25

    Default

    What I've concluded in the shortest, most simple, way is that by not taking a vaccine, you aren't harming me. You're harming yourself. And that's okay so long as you keep your decision to yourself.

    The problem comes when you involve the goverment in it in some way on the idea that they might protect you from consuming something. When you do that, that's when it affects me. That's when it affects everyone. And then you have government in it across the board and they're legislating things of the sort.

    Yes, government involvement is bad. But the reality is that it isn't the pro-vaccine folks getting the government involved in it. It's the anti-vaccination folks who ultimately get the government involved in it.

    Thought through all the way, one will always correcty conclude this to be the scenario.

    And, really, it isn't limited to discussion about vaccination. One can logically make the same case with regard to gmo products and other similar scenarios involving consumables.

    You'd be surprised that if you actually think it through, you can still have your opinion on something without getting the government involved in it.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-30-2017 at 07:11 AM.



  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    What I've concluded in the shortest, most simple, way is that by not taking a vaccine, you aren't harming me. You're harming yourself. And that's okay so long as you keep your decision to yourself.

    The problem comes when you involve the goverment in it in some way on the idea that they might protect you from consuming something. When you do that, that's when it affects me. That's when it affects everyone. And then you have government in it across the board and they're legeslating things of the sort.

    Yes, government involvement is bad. But the reality is that it isn't the pro-vaccine fols getting the government involved in it. It's the anti-vaccination folks who ultimately get the government involved in it.

    Thought through all the way, one will always correcty conclude this to be the scenario.

    And, really, it isn't limited to discussion about vaccination. One can logically make the same case with regard to gmo products and other similar scenarios involving consumables.

    You'd be surprised that if you actually think it through, you can still have your opinion on something without getting the government involved in it.
    That's all well and good, and while I am against government involvement in this issue, government, by extension, is already in it. The lies that have been repeated over and over and the scare tactics have been repeated over and over is what many individuals are up against. How does one counter that without making a big deal out of it for people to question either side?
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post

    The real issue is that the child has two parents, and only one of them doesn't want the kid vaccinated.
    Moving the goal posts. You stated that there is no science supporting a decision to not vaccinate a child, and that is false. Medical doctors make medical exceptions every day for medical/scientific reasons.

    Here are the "real issues":

    Both parents have rights.
    They have shared custody but child lives with mom and she is primary caregiver.
    Both parents had in the past agreed on a vaccination schedule, but now the father is changing his mind.
    The judge in this case (and most others like this) sides with the pro-vaccine parent irregardless of other circumstances.

    You are basically arguing that the father's rights trump the mothers, simply because he is pro-vaccine.

    That is discrimination at best, and medical tyranny at worst. Neither side can claim "science" proves their position.

    This is an anti-liberty position: pro-vaccine is the only view allowed, and others must comply.

    So what is your purpose on these forums Angela? What is your agenda? Your views on vaccines are anti-liberty.
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Moving the goal posts. You stated that there is no science supporting a decision to not vaccinate a child, and that is false.
    I said there was no evidence presented that HER child should not be vaccinated. The father agreed to a delayed schedule, but there's officially no such thing. She's dragged it out for 9 years. And now she's dragged the media into it as well.

    Yeah, no reason to think she's a drama queen and not a rocket scientist - none at all.


    Your reluctance to answer my question about your interests means I am going to conclude that you are indeed a charleton, here to create fear, drive readership and promote coconut oil. But you've never once disclosed that, despite constantly criticizing researchers for the same practice.

    I'm shocked.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    What I've concluded in the shortest, most simple, way is that by not taking a vaccine, you aren't harming me. You're harming yourself.
    That's not exactly true. No vaccine is 100% effective, so people whose system didn't respond, or sick/young people who can't take vaccines depend on the crowd around them to be disease free.

    Liberty minded people shouldn't need government to tell them to get vaccinated - the evidence and the science (by the people who actually went to college and beyond studying this stuff) is clearly overwhelmingly in favor of vaccines, and the whole underlying philosophy of LIbertarianism is that we are smart enough to take care of ourselves and each other - voluntarily.

    People promoting the anti-vax movement aren't Libertarians. Their agenda is not ours.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I said there was no evidence presented that HER child should not be vaccinated.
    No, that is not what you said. You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    She can't support a delayed vaccine schedule and claim science.
    She can. As do medical doctors.

    as to:

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Your reluctance to answer my question....
    I did answer you in the thread where you asked the question (not this one).

    The only reason you have to ask personal questions is to do what you just did here:

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    you are indeed a charleton, here to create fear, drive readership and promote coconut oil.
    Personal attacks against people you do not agree with because you cannot debate the issues. Science is not on your side, so you must appeal to authority and attack people. So typical of vaccine fanatics, and certainly nothing in common with the libertarian goals of these forums.
    Last edited by Created4; 09-30-2017 at 04:01 PM.
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

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