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Thread: The Roy Moore I Know

  1. #1

    Default The Roy Moore I Know

    The Roy Moore I Know

    Friends remember how ‘Chief’ stood up for black defendants.

    By Allen Mendenhall

    Sept. 28, 2017 6:34 p.m. ET

    Roy Moore, who won Alabama’s Republican Senate runoff Tuesday, has been portrayed as a showman, firebrand, zealot, bigot, redneck and extremist. That isn’t the man I know.

    I was Mr. Moore’s staff attorney from 2013-16 when he was chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. The man I know, away from the camera and among friends and family who call him “Chief,” is warmhearted, humorous, compassionate and studious.

    He ordered his staff to learn not just the facts and issues in every case, but also the history that gave coherence to the controlling law. He expected us to read Blackstone , Coke, Story and Kent. That history found its way into his opinions. In a case about contractual jury waivers, Chief traced civil juries to their Dutch and Frankish origins.

    He empathized with poor black defendants, believing they faced systemic disadvantages in the justice system. Whenever a nonviolent habitual offense drew a sentence of life imprisonment without parole, Chief boiled.

    In 2014 he dissented vehemently when the court declined to hear an appeal from Willie Conner, a black man who had been convicted of possessing a “gun” while committing a theft. Mr. Conner had stolen a nail gun from Lowe’s.

    Another black man, Cornelius Newman, was sentenced to 35 years for first-degree robbery. This bothered Chief because the “robbery” was an unpaid $8 bill from Waffle House. Mr. Newman retrieved a shotgun to effectuate his dine-and-dash but never used it. In a 2013 dissent, Chief argued he should have been prosecuted for “theft of services,” a lesser offense.

    Micah 6:8 was engraved on the back of Chief’s nameplate, reminding him to “do justice” and “love mercy” while walking humbly with God.

    He does have quirks. He’d eat expired food and use what he called “Indian mud” (a k a “Black salve”) to heal ailments. He once put it on his leg, which he bared every morning so I could monitor its progress. Sure enough, the wound balled up into a dark scab that soon fell off.

    A few weeks into the job, I was meeting with Chief to discuss a tort case regarding one party’s disputed “duty” toward another. Reasoning out loud, he passionately repeated the word “duty”—which of course sounds like “doody.” I succumbed to sophomoric snickering, the kind of laughter that only gets worse when you try to suppress it. A sterner judge would’ve reprimanded me. Chief simply shook his head, let me get my giggles out, and then proceeded as though nothing had happened.

    Another time Chief was in my office, pushing his foot off my desk to lean back in his chair—a little too far. His cool face turned to panic as he grasped for something to break his fall. He managed to bend sideways to avoid crashing through the glass bookshelves behind him and then laughed with sudden relief.

    My favorite meetings involved the entire staff. Chief liked constructive argument, and he wanted to know who disagreed with him and why. He was always willing to change his mind, but steadfast when the time came. In one contentious case he told a staffer working on an opinion to “dissent like hell.”

    As the December general election approaches, I expect the caricatures of Chief to grow even more grotesque. Mr. Moore has made his share of brash remarks and taken controversial stands. But his critics don’t know the man who would buy his staff attorneys dinner if he noticed they were working late. That’s the shame of politics: It prevents you from truly understanding people—especially those you oppose.

    Mr. Mendenhall is an associate law dean at Faulkner University in Montgomery, Ala., and executive director of the Blackstone and Burke Center for Law and Liberty.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-roy...now-1506638041
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe







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  3. #2

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    Roy Moore/Rand Paul 2020.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3

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    Mr. Christian Taliban doesn't strike me as someone who truly believes in freedom for all people.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Mr. Christian Taliban doesn't strike me as someone who truly believes in freedom for all people.
    Your opposition just doubled my support for the man, if he does run for POTUS I may donate my entire entertainment budget for 2020 just to hear you howl.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Christian Taliban
    What is Christian Taliban? I don't understand. I've read this same phrase used several times of late on the forum by one poster or another. Are you equating Christians with terrorists? If so, then, upon what primary moral foundation are you basing this assessment? Explain, please. Thanks.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-29-2017 at 11:55 AM.

    Carpe Diem!

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    We'll see.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  8. #7

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    The communist hate machine is already spooling up into screech mode over Moore.

    Must be doing something right then.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The communist hate machine is already spooling up into screech mode over Moore.

    Must be doing something right then.

    Are you referring to the MSM or Pierz?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The communist hate machine is already spooling up into screech mode over Moore.

    Must be doing something right then.
    Yeah. But they were all upset about Trump and that win hasn't exactly advanced a freedom agenda.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Yeah. But they were all upset about Trump and that win hasn't exactly advanced a freedom agenda.
    Moore has proven that he is a man of Principles, Dump never was.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Mr. Christian Taliban doesn't strike me as someone who truly believes in freedom for all people.
    If you're gay, atheistic, or Muslim, he doesn't.

    To show how much of an ignorant wacko this guy is, he argued that representative Keith Ellison (D. Minnesota), who is a Muslim, shouldn't be allowed to take the oath of office because he planned to do so with his hand on a copy of the Quran. Moore is apparently oblivious to the fact that the Constitution prohibits religious tests for federal offices.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    If you're gay, atheistic, or Muslim, he doesn't.

    To show how much of an ignorant wacko this guy is, he argued that representative Keith Ellison (D. Minnesota), who is a Muslim, shouldn't be allowed to take the oath of office because he planned to do so with his hand on a copy of the Quran. Moore is apparently oblivious to the fact that the Constitution prohibits religious tests for federal offices.
    Why would you want a elected official to be sworn in using Satan's bible?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen;

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That's right.

    ...not something we 2nd amendment supporters want to hear, but right.

    The idea that the 'oi polloi should have the same weaponry as the army is quite insane.

    ...a relic of well intended but irrational Enlightenment thinking about the nature of the people (can't work against their own interests, etc).

    The people should be armed so as to defend themselves from criminals, not so as to overthrow the government,

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Why would you want a elected official to be sworn in using Satan's bible?
    What business is it of yours or mine? If he wants to take the oath with his hand on the owner's manual for a 1953 De Soto convertible, that's his choice. The law doesn't require congressmen to put their hand on anything when being sworn in. Apparently the people in Minnesota who elected him didn't care that he was a Muslim, so why should you or Moore care?

    Incidentally, I forgot to mention that the Quran that Ellison used once belonged to Thomas Jefferson.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    If you're gay, atheistic, or Muslim, he doesn't.
    Well guess I'm all set for a dose of freedom then.

  16. #15

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    A person can hold whatever personal views they like, but when their personal religious views conflict with the constitution, that becomes problematic for me. His stance on gay rights is terrible:

    He has likened it to bestiality, and called it "abhorrent, immoral, detestable, a crime against nature, and a violation of the laws of nature and of nature's God upon which this nation and our laws are predicated". His refusal to issue marriage certificates to gay couples cost him his place on the bench for a second time
    He also said that 'maybe Putin is right' the way Homosexuality is banned in Russia.

    His claim that evolution isn't real was pretty bad.

    Saying 9/11 may have happened because 'god's wrath' etc etc.... again pretty bad.

    And yes saying a muslim American shouldn't be allowed to be sworn in on the quran is terrible and clashes with every principle of human liberty we supposedly stand for... unless you are rooting for Christian Theocracy, Roy Moore isn't really a liberty candidate, imo.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    He also said that 'maybe Putin is right' the way Homosexuality is banned in Russia.
    Since when is homosexuality banned in Russia? Last I heard it was just gay propaganda to children that was banned.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    A person can hold whatever personal views they like, but when their personal religious views conflict with the constitution, that becomes problematic for me. His stance on gay rights is terrible:

    He also said that 'maybe Putin is right' the way Homosexuality is banned in Russia.

    His claim that evolution isn't real was pretty bad.

    Saying 9/11 may have happened because 'god's wrath' etc etc.... again pretty bad.

    And yes saying a muslim American shouldn't be allowed to be sworn in on the quran is terrible and clashes with every principle of human liberty we supposedly stand for... unless you are rooting for Christian Theocracy, Roy Moore isn't really a liberty candidate, imo.
    He seems like a mixed bag to me. I think on some issues he will come down on the side of the likes of Rand, Massie and Amash. How things will turn out we can't know at this time. Once upon a time Walter Jones (NC) was a neo-con through and through. Today he is an anti-interventionist. Perhaps, if Moore hangs out with the likes of Rand, Massie and Amash, he might be guided more towards liberty. At this point I don't believe liberty is unattainable in the political arena. At best I am "meh" on his Republican win.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    A person can hold whatever personal views they like, but when their personal religious views conflict with the constitution, that becomes problematic for me. His stance on gay rights is terrible:

    He also said that 'maybe Putin is right' the way Homosexuality is banned in Russia.

    Saying 9/11 may have happened because 'god's wrath' etc etc.... again pretty bad.

    And yes saying a muslim American shouldn't be allowed to be sworn in on the quran is terrible and clashes with every principle of human liberty we supposedly stand for... unless you are rooting for Christian Theocracy, Roy Moore isn't really a liberty candidate, imo.
    He may not be perfect, but he is the best we can get for this Senate seat and he might be the best we can get for the POTUS, he is better than Dump and we have Congress and the courts to limit him if he were to try to act on any of his less than perfect positions.


    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    His claim that evolution isn't real was pretty bad.
    Evolution is a fraud, the blood clotting system is too complex to have evolved all at once and any partial stages would kill the organism with blood clots or bleeding out.







    Give me someone better to vote for and I will, until then he is a GIANT improvement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    What business is it of yours or mine? If he wants to take the oath with his hand on the owner's manual for a 1953 De Soto convertible, that's his choice. The law doesn't require congressmen to put their hand on anything when being sworn in. Apparently the people in Minnesota who elected him didn't care that he was a Muslim, so why should you or Moore care?

    Incidentally, I forgot to mention that the Quran that Ellison used once belonged to Thomas Jefferson.
    I would be ok with the owner's manual for a 1953 De Soto convertible.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen;

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That's right.

    ...not something we 2nd amendment supporters want to hear, but right.

    The idea that the 'oi polloi should have the same weaponry as the army is quite insane.

    ...a relic of well intended but irrational Enlightenment thinking about the nature of the people (can't work against their own interests, etc).

    The people should be armed so as to defend themselves from criminals, not so as to overthrow the government,

  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Mr. Christian Taliban doesn't strike me as someone who truly believes in freedom for all people.
    If I recall correctly you don't even like the most libertarian senator of the last 100 years. So that kind of makes you like the guy who dated Dated Grace Kelly, Ingrid Bergman, Audrey Hepburn, Catherine Zeta-Jones and Marilyn Monroe and dumped them all because they wouldn't make him enough sandwiches giving advice on women. You're welcome to your opinion, but no one cares.

    Saying Christian Taliban might go farther at Huffpost.
    Last edited by William Tell; 09-29-2017 at 03:48 PM.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    A person can hold whatever personal views they like, but when their personal religious views conflict with the constitution, that becomes problematic for me. His stance on gay rights is terrible:

    He also said that 'maybe Putin is right' the way Homosexuality is banned in Russia.

    His claim that evolution isn't real was pretty bad.

    Saying 9/11 may have happened because 'god's wrath' etc etc.... again pretty bad.

    And yes saying a muslim American shouldn't be allowed to be sworn in on the quran is terrible and clashes with every principle of human liberty we supposedly stand for... unless you are rooting for Christian Theocracy, Roy Moore isn't really a liberty candidate, imo.
    The 9/11 objection is not related to legislation, neither is evolution and Ron Paul doesn't believe in evolution either.

    The other ones are to be expected from libertarians. Here's the thing though. None of them are things he can have any power over. Even if all the media caricature about him is accurate nobody else in DC would ever vote to ban homosexual behavior, even Ted Cruz doesn't have a problem with it. I'd wager Moore considers things like that state issues anyway. The only thing he's likely to accomplish down there is gumming up the system which is a positive.

    His views on war powers and enumerated powers suggest he will be better on constitutional issues than anyone but perhaps Rand and Mike Lee in the senate in my eyes anyway. But we shall see. I will say there are several Moore type guys I follow at the state level. They are almost always with us on the important things like parental rights, fiscal policy etc.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe





  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    He seems like a mixed bag to me.
    Who isn't? Amash voted for Ryancare and Jones voted to draft women.

    I think on some issues he will come down on the side of the likes of Rand, Massie and Amash. How things will turn out we can't know at this time. Once upon a time Walter Jones (NC) was a neo-con through and through. Today he is an anti-interventionist. Perhaps, if Moore hangs out with the likes of Rand, Massie and Amash, he might be guided more towards liberty. At this point I don't believe liberty is unattainable in the political arena. At best I am "meh" on his Republican win.
    Yeah, we'll see. He has already hung out with some of the good guys over the years. Chuck Baldwin for example.
    Freedom index

    ~Resident Badgiraffe










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