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Thread: Watch the debt rise over the next few months.

  1. #1

    Default Watch the debt rise over the next few months.

    I'm curious to see how fast the debt rises over the next few months before we hit the next debt ceiling. We normally borrow a trillion a year, so that would put us at about 20.9 trillion by year's end, plus we got hit by 3 hurricanes. The debt is only at 20.2 so we'd have to borrow another 800 billion or so before the end of the year to catch up. Although my guess is they can't borrow that much without breaking the bond market, so they have to take it a little slower.

    So far it's risen by about 350 billion since the debt ceiling was suspended.

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current



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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I'm curious to see how fast the debt rises over the next few months before we hit the next debt ceiling. We normally borrow a trillion a year, so that would put us at about 20.9 trillion by year's end, plus we got hit by 3 hurricanes. The debt is only at 20.2 so we'd have to borrow another 800 billion or so before the end of the year to catch up. Although my guess is they can't borrow that much without breaking the bond market, so they have to take it a little slower.

    So far it's risen by about 350 billion since the debt ceiling was suspended.

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
    Budget deficit last year was under $500 billion- not $1 trillion but yeah, it will probably be higher this year. Hurricane relief bill which passed was $15 billion though some were asking for more- $100 billion or more. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...-trump-n799581
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #3

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    According to Zip, the debt and deficit don't 'really' mean anything. We should just print billions and hand it out to the masses. BOOM! Economic prosperity! Debt? Who cares!? Deficit? SPEND LIKE A HIGH ROLLER BITCHEZ, THIS FED GRAVY TRAIN IS UNLIMITED!!!!
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  5. #4

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    21 trillion and after hurricane gravy for everyone .

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Budget deficit last year was under $500 billion- not $1 trillion but yeah, it will probably be higher this year. Hurricane relief bill which passed was $15 billion though some were asking for more- $100 billion or more. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...-trump-n799581
    The deficit does not equal the change in the total debt. Total borrowing is usually almost twice the deficit. I think it has something to do with off budget spending that doesn't count towards the deficit.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    21 trillion and after hurricane gravy for everyone .
    The only question is, how high can it go before it breaks.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    According to Zip, the debt and deficit don't 'really' mean anything. We should just print billions and hand it out to the masses. BOOM! Economic prosperity! Debt? Who cares!? Deficit? SPEND LIKE A HIGH ROLLER BITCHEZ, THIS FED GRAVY TRAIN IS UNLIMITED!!!!
    It's technically true that the number itself doesn't matter. What matters is how many new human bodies can be introduced through various ways that the Treasury can securitize into new debt issues. Want more deficit spending? Import more immigrants or get more people breeding. Where the debt number starts to become a problem is when the birth figures slow down, immigration slows (anchor babies) and federal income tax receipts become too low to service the interest on the outstanding debt. To understand "the debt" you have to understand how federal debt is created.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
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  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    The deficit does not equal the change in the total debt. Total borrowing is usually almost twice the deficit. I think it has something to do with off budget spending that doesn't count towards the deficit.
    "Budgeted" deficit may also be different from the actual deficit.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    It's technically true that the number itself doesn't matter. What matters is how many new human bodies can be introduced through various ways that the Treasury can securitize into new debt issues. Want more deficit spending? Import more immigrants or get more people breeding. Where the debt number starts to become a problem is when the birth figures slow down, immigration slows (anchor babies) and federal income tax receipts become too low to service the interest on the outstanding debt. To understand "the debt" you have to understand how federal debt is created.
    Yeah , they take in about 2 trillion , spend about 3 trillion . There is no legitimate intention , none , to ever pay the debt . All they have to do is pay the interest .

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Yeah , they take in about 2 trillion , spend about 3 trillion . There is no legitimate intention , none , to ever pay the debt . All they have to do is pay the interest .
    Spending closer to $4 trillion. First Obama budget (FY 2010- written not by him but by Congress) called for $3.5 trillion in spending. "His" final one requested $4.1 trillion and had $3.6 trillion in tax revenues projected.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_U...federal_budget
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Yeah , they take in about 2 trillion , spend about 3 trillion . There is no legitimate intention , none , to ever pay the debt . All they have to do is pay the interest .
    But it's like having a mortgage and every payment forever only pays interest and the principle never goes down. The unpaid interest still compounds and the securitized property can be 'called in' at any time, though.

    To add insult to injury, the principle doesn't exist except in your mind, because it was created by you. It's only a number there to keep you laboring to pay the interest (money earned by sweat, not accounting entries). Neat system, eh? Brilliant if it wasn't so $#@!ed up.


    (No surprise that 'principle' and 'principal' sound the same but mean different things......think about it. I used the wrong spelling of that word in my post but did you notice?)
    Last edited by devil21; 09-29-2017 at 02:32 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  13. #12

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    even if there was a budget the debt cant ever be paid. The same people trusted with your economic/ national security.
    Last edited by kfarnan; 09-29-2017 at 07:10 AM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by kfarnan View Post
    even if there was a budget the debt cant ever be paid. The same people trusted with your economic/ national security.
    To get rid of the debt (without defaulting), you have to take in more in taxes than you spend- and do that for decades. Congress doesn't like that. If they have more money, they want to spend more money.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    To get rid of the debt (without defaulting), you have to take in more in taxes than you spend- and do that for decades. Congress doesn't like that. If they have more money, they want to spend more money.
    And then once all debt is paid, there is no more "money", since under the current system all "money" is created through various debt mechanisms. Getting out of debt for the average person is a different animal than getting out of debt for governments.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  16. #15

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    And then once all debt is paid, there is no more "money", since under the current system all "money" is created through various debt mechanisms. Getting out of debt for the average person is a different animal than getting out of debt for governments.
    It is a debt driven system.

  18. #17

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    Another 100 billion over the weekend:

    20,347,802,336,477.80

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

  19. #18

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    Another 75 billion. Can we hit 21 trillion by the next debt suspension in Dec?


    20,422,972,363,114.29



    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

  20. #19

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    Jeez they aren't playing around huh? No matter. It's all fake ones and zeroes anyway. Enjoy the bread and circuses
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Another 75 billion. Can we hit 21 trillion by the next debt suspension in Dec?


    20,422,972,363,114.29



    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
    $600 billion in two months?
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    $600 billion in two months?
    Well they borrowed 300 billion the first day after the debt suspension so it's possible.

  23. #22

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    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul.
    "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne
    "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "Budgeted" deficit may also be different from the actual deficit.
    Why are there parentheses around budgeted?

    In other news, your mileage may vary from the estimations provided by the manufacturer.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Why are there parentheses around budgeted?

    In other news, your mileage may vary from the estimations provided by the manufacturer.
    Requested ("budgeted") spending is not necessarily the same as actual spending. Actual tax revenues may also be higher or lower than anticipated.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Requested ("budgeted") spending is not necessarily the same as actual spending. Actual tax revenues may also be higher or lower than anticipated.
    Doesn't explain why you're putting quotes around budget. By definition budget isn't spending.

    A budget isn't requested spending after it passes, either. Assuming we're using it as a noun, it's approved and planned spending combined with approved and planned methods of raising revenue.

    Golly a liberal who doesn't understand economic terms, so he uses "quotes" inappropriately.
    Last edited by angelatc; 11-08-2017 at 11:41 AM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  27. #26

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    Why would anybody listen to Zip? He has 10 red bars. His major was political science and I'm not even sure he graduated.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  28. #27

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    It's slowed down a bit. We're up to 20,557,279,072,690. The debt ceiling suspension ends Dec 8.

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

    I'm confused by all the articles I read 3 months ago when they re-suspended the debt ceiling from Sep 8 to Dec 8.

    For example: "That means Congress must approve a new debt ceiling and create a new budget by December 8. That will create a situation like the 2012 fiscal cliff crisis."

    I don't understand why they can't just go back to emergency measures like they normally do and stretch it out another 4-6 months. The articles make it sound like we start defaulting on stuff on Dec 8.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    It's slowed down a bit. We're up to 20,557,279,072,690. The debt ceiling suspension ends Dec 8.

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

    I'm confused by all the articles I read 3 months ago when they re-suspended the debt ceiling from Sep 8 to Dec 8.

    For example: "That means Congress must approve a new debt ceiling and create a new budget by December 8. That will create a situation like the 2012 fiscal cliff crisis."

    I don't understand why they can't just go back to emergency measures like they normally do and stretch it out another 4-6 months. The articles make it sound like we start defaulting on stuff on Dec 8.
    There basically ins't a debt ceiling in place until December 8th. What the ceiling will be on December 8th I am not sure but yes, once the ceiling is back they can try to use "emergency measures" to try to extend things.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    It's slowed down a bit. We're up to 20,557,279,072,690. The debt ceiling suspension ends Dec 8.

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

    I'm confused by all the articles I read 3 months ago when they re-suspended the debt ceiling from Sep 8 to Dec 8.

    For example: "That means Congress must approve a new debt ceiling and create a new budget by December 8. That will create a situation like the 2012 fiscal cliff crisis."

    I don't understand why they can't just go back to emergency measures like they normally do and stretch it out another 4-6 months. The articles make it sound like we start defaulting on stuff on Dec 8.
    Seems to me that they've been running under a variety of "emergency measures" (aka accounting tricks) for the last two and a half years. The debt number has been frozen or suspended in some form about 75% of that time period. At this point what difference does it make? It's all good until it's not. I do think much of the general drama is about distracting and killing time until December when events have been planned to get very interesting.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks Fishing Boat Rentals

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    It's slowed down a bit. We're up to 20,557,279,072,690. The debt ceiling suspension ends Dec 8.

    https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

    I'm confused by all the articles I read 3 months ago when they re-suspended the debt ceiling from Sep 8 to Dec 8.

    For example: "That means Congress must approve a new debt ceiling and create a new budget by December 8. That will create a situation like the 2012 fiscal cliff crisis."

    I don't understand why they can't just go back to emergency measures like they normally do and stretch it out another 4-6 months. The articles make it sound like we start defaulting on stuff on Dec 8.

    Dang. How can I know more than 99% of the financial reporters that cover this stuff? I was right, they don't go right into default on Dec 8. They can use extraordinary measures again.

    "While markets expect the debt ceiling to be reinstated this week, they anticipate that the Treasury can avoid a breach of the borrowing cap by using extraordinary measures until as late as April."


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...uspension-ends

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