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Thread: Rand Paul press conference on healthcare - 9/25

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  3. #2

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    Bump.

    Every time he speaks, I get sad that people fell for the con-man in chief... even outspoken RPF members picked Trump over Rand. Sad times.
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  4. #3

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    Well,thank you Rand for ensuring I continue to get my tax penalty so you could achieve nothing at all.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    even outspoken RPF members picked Trump over Rand. Sad times.
    You mean like 1 or 2 maybe?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    Well,thank you Rand for ensuring I continue to get my tax penalty so you could achieve nothing at all.
    Poor baby. Seems you should be mad at those that called for full repeal when the Dems had the numbers but balked at actual repeal when the Reps had the numbers.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Poor baby. Seems you should be mad at those that called for full repeal when the Dems had the numbers but balked at actual repeal when the Reps had the numbers.
    I have enough anger for all of them. If it was up to me I'd toss all of them in a volcano.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    I have enough anger for all of them. If it was up to me I'd toss all of them in a volcano.
    Then maybe Ron Paul forums/ Rand Paul forums shouldn't be the place you wanna hang out at?
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  9. #8

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    Rand again led with liking the expansion of health savings accounts as a solution. Frankly the majority of people in this country are unable to save and really do not give a damn about HSA. Even if they could put money into an HSA on average it would not cover the cost of a simple procedure or a day in the hospital that costs 5k-100k or more.

    There is a real problem with out of control healthcare costs and we are not hearing enough from anyone about how these costs can be reduced. For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Rand again led with liking the expansion of health savings accounts as a solution. Frankly the majority of people in this country are unable to save and really do not give a damn about HSA. Even if they could put money into an HSA on average it would not cover the cost of a simple procedure or a day in the hospital that costs 5k-100k or more.

    There is a real problem with out of control healthcare costs and we are not hearing enough from anyone about how these costs can be reduced. For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.
    Ahem... HSA's reduce costs significantly! People are WAY more judicious when they're spending their own money.

    I have an HSA. I always check the prices prior to purchase health services AND I choose more wisely about which services I choose to use. (And the "state lines" discussions are part of his plan as well.)
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  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Rand again led with liking the expansion of health savings accounts as a solution. Frankly the majority of people in this country are unable to save and really do not give a damn about HSA. Even if they could put money into an HSA on average it would not cover the cost of a simple procedure or a day in the hospital that costs 5k-100k or more.

    There is a real problem with out of control healthcare costs and we are not hearing enough from anyone about how these costs can be reduced. For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.
    Not sure I understand the criticism here. Even in their current form, HSAs are a great financial tool. They come with tax benefits, grow over time like any other retirement account, and are actually superior to the 401k in many aspects. If you don't use the money for your health, you can keep it and retire on it. An expansion of HSA's would go a long way. Having a HSA isn't meant to be the solution... it's part of it. It's to be combined with a catastrophic plan / high deductible option. Your HSA should be able to cover any deductibles and regular health expenses, if ever needed. If you are smart with your health and a bit lucky, you get to keep all that wealth rather than flush it down the toilet in premiums.

    If you are going to lead with "the majority of people in this country are unable to save", well then the only solution is single payer. I'm not sure what the point of that statement is?

    When people start using cash out of their own HSA for regular expenses instead of "health insurance", what do you think is going to happen to prices? Market forces enter the equation again and they'll be driven down. Your catastrophic / high-deductible plan covers the rest.

    I do agree with you though. The approach we're taking is convoluted because, like you said, health care costs are the true problem. You can't lower health insurance much unless health care costs are driven down. The HSA approach doesn't solve that by any means, but is a good start in the context of the national discussion we're having right now.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Then maybe Ron Paul forums/ Rand Paul forums shouldn't be the place you wanna hang out at?
    Probably

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    Well,thank you Rand for ensuring I continue to get my tax penalty so you could achieve nothing at all.
    If this bill had passed it would kill any further efforts to repeal this POS, that would be the best you could get. As it is, people are still pissed and demanding it get killed. This gives him more opportunities to get something good done.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by fcreature View Post
    Not sure I understand the criticism here. Even in their current form, HSAs are a great financial tool. They come with tax benefits, grow over time like any other retirement account, and are actually superior to the 401k in many aspects. If you don't use the money for your health, you can keep it and retire on it. An expansion of HSA's would go a long way. Having a HSA isn't meant to be the solution... it's part of it. It's to be combined with a catastrophic plan / high deductible option. Your HSA should be able to cover any deductibles and regular health expenses, if ever needed. If you are smart with your health and a bit lucky, you get to keep all that wealth rather than flush it down the toilet in premiums.

    If you are going to lead with "the majority of people in this country are unable to save", well then the only solution is single payer. I'm not sure what the point of that statement is?

    When people start using cash out of their own HSA for regular expenses instead of "health insurance", what do you think is going to happen to prices? Market forces enter the equation again and they'll be driven down. Your catastrophic / high-deductible plan covers the rest.

    I do agree with you though. The approach we're taking is convoluted because, like you said, health care costs are the true problem. You can't lower health insurance much unless health care costs are driven down. The HSA approach doesn't solve that by any means, but is a good start in the context of the national discussion we're having right now.
    When Rand or someone brings this up people I know get pissed since they do not know the details of the newer HSA plans. They just hear HSA's and what immediately comes to mind is money being confiscated every year and not enough to cover the outrageous costs of health care. So my criticism is about how it is perceived and that it will fall on deaf ears to anyone listening without leading up on the details of HSA's and cost reduction.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Rand again led with liking the expansion of health savings accounts as a solution. Frankly the majority of people in this country are unable to save and really do not give a damn about HSA. Even if they could put money into an HSA on average it would not cover the cost of a simple procedure or a day in the hospital that costs 5k-100k or more.

    There is a real problem with out of control healthcare costs and we are not hearing enough from anyone about how these costs can be reduced. For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.

    When Rand or someone brings this up people I know get pissed since they do not know the details of the newer HSA plans. They just hear HSA's and what immediately comes to mind is money being confiscated every year and not enough to cover the outrageous costs of health care. So my criticism is about how it is perceived and that it will fall on deaf ears to anyone listening without leading up on the details of HSA's and cost reduction.
    I have an HSA. I think they are great.

    I am pretty sure it is a requirement to combine an HSA with health insurance. If you have a $100k bill then virtually all of that would be covered by insurance. You would even be able to use the HSA to defray costs up to when the deductible is met.

    No money is confiscated. You can contribute to an HSA like any other account. What should happen is everyone should be responsible for their health care and costs should be paid out of pocket whenever possible. An HSA is a perfect way to deal with that. Singapore has very low health care costs and the foundation is an HSA equivalent. That would do more to bring down health care costs than any other single thing.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 09-27-2017 at 09:28 PM.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Rand again led with liking the expansion of health savings accounts as a solution. Frankly the majority of people in this country are unable to save and really do not give a damn about HSA. Even if they could put money into an HSA on average it would not cover the cost of a simple procedure or a day in the hospital that costs 5k-100k or more.

    There is a real problem with out of control healthcare costs and we are not hearing enough from anyone about how these costs can be reduced. For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.
    Whatever your thoughts about HSAs are, its absolutely ridiculous that they are limited. Every single person should be able to open an HSA. I can't have one because I don't qualify.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    When Rand or someone brings this up people I know get pissed since they do not know the details of the newer HSA plans. They just hear HSA's and what immediately comes to mind is money being confiscated every year and not enough to cover the outrageous costs of health care. So my criticism is about how it is perceived and that it will fall on deaf ears to anyone listening without leading up on the details of HSA's and cost reduction.

    I agree with your point that it's an ineffective way to sell a new healthcare policy. I like my HSA though. I get a $70 tax benefit each month by maxing out my contributions. Any savings I don't need for medical expenses I can put into an investment account that grows tax free through retirement. I'd much rather have this than a more expensive insurance plan with more coverage options.

    Of course, all of that is difficult to explain in a simple soundbite, plus HSAs have been successfully maligned by free-market opponents. I think portability is the more convincing way to sell a new health policy; it's the same argument single-payer proponents use since you won't lose your insurance if you change/lose your job.
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  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I have an HSA. I think they are great.

    I am pretty sure it is a requirement to combine an HSA with health insurance. If you have a $100k bill then virtually all of that would be covered by insurance. You would even be able to use the HSA to defray costs up to when the deductible is met.
    From what I understand, you cannot currently open an HSA without also having a high deductible health insurance plan.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.
    I don't think this does much to bring down costs but FWIW




  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.
    I'm guessing you didn't actually listen to the video in the OP. As Randal specifically discusses that (supporting it) @1:30 into the discussion.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'm guessing you didn't actually listen to the video in the OP. As Randal specifically discusses that (supporting it) @1:30 into the discussion.
    I in fact did and never said he did not support it as he has been talking about it for years as well as I have been posting about here since 07. It was a major plank of both his and his fathers campaign platforms. The competition aspect from Trump and Republicans in general has taken back burner until recently and even Rand had it down on the list in his speech. (obviously not in the Fox News interview above which I did not see. I only saw a prior interviews of Rand on FNC where he led off with HSA)

    The first thing he said he liked was HSA's at 0:58. This is also not the only speech or interview where he led off with HSA's. I am not against HSA's and not saying he should not bring up his HSA plan. I just believe people will generally tune out right after you say HSA so he probably should not lead with it.
    Last edited by kahless; 09-29-2017 at 11:18 AM.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Bump.

    Every time he speaks, I get sad that people fell for the con-man in chief... even outspoken RPF members picked Trump over Rand. Sad times.
    Are you serious? My life would be better if I had died not knowing that.
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    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




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  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    I in fact did and never said he did not support it as he has been talking about it for years as well as I have been posting about here since 07. It was a major plank of both his and his fathers campaign platforms. The competition aspect from Trump and Republicans in general has taken back burner until recently and even Rand had it down on the list in his speech. (obviously not in the Fox News interview above which I did not see. I only saw a prior interviews of Rand on FNC where he led off with HSA)

    The first thing he said he liked was HSA's at 0:58. This is also not the only speech or interview where he led off with HSA's. I am not against HSA's and not saying he should not bring up his HSA plan. I just believe people will generally tune out right after you say HSA so he probably should not lead with it.
    You said:
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    For example whatever happened to the discussion on competition, including allowing companies to compete across state lines.
    And he literally discussed just that, immediately after the HSA stuff. 30 seconds later.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    You said:

    And he literally discussed just that, immediately after the HSA stuff. 30 seconds later.
    I was talking about not burying the lead. Like I said I did not see the last FNC interview where Rand did lead with it.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    Well,thank you Rand for ensuring I continue to get my tax penalty so you could achieve nothing at all.
    Appeasers like you are what got us into this in the first place. Go join Grahamforums.
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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    If this bill had passed it would kill any further efforts to repeal this POS, that would be the best you could get. As it is, people are still pissed and demanding it get killed. This gives him more opportunities to get something good done.
    That's the bottom line.

    The GOP has one chance to do something. If they do something superficial just so they can say "we repealed Obamacare" for the mid-terms, the system will continue to collapse, the blame will shift back to Republicans, and the Dems will do single payer next time they're in power.
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