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Thread: The problem with the NFL protestors

  1. #481
    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...states-america

    Ex-Green Beret Nate Boyer writes open letter to Trump, Kaepernick, NFL and America



    Dear Every Single American,

    Every. Single. American. Including President Trump, Colin Kaepernick, and my brothers in arms overseas who are wondering, "what in the hell is going on back there?" I'm sitting in the same chair, in the same apartment that I sat in almost a year ago when I wrote an open letter to Colin Kaepernick. I was hurt when I saw him sitting on the bench during the national anthem, but I'm much more hurt now. Not by him, not by where we're at now with the protests, but by us.

    Simply put, it seems like we just hate each other; and that is far more painful to me than any protest, or demonstration, or rally, or tweet. We're told to pick a side, there's a line drawn in the sand "are you with us or against us?" It's just not who we are, or at least who we're supposed to be; we're supposed to be better than that, we're Americans. This doesn't even seem to be about right or wrong, but more about right or left.

    Today it feels like this national divide isn't even really about the anthem, or the flag, or kneeling, or sitting, or fists in the air. It's not about President Donald Trump, it's not about Colin Kaepernick, it's not about the military, or even police brutality. It feels like it's about winning. That's what makes America so great, our sheer competitiveness. We're winners, and we won't quit until victory is ours.

    We see it in sports everyday, we "live and die" by the outcomes of our teams. That desire to win at all cost is costing us greatly now among our neighbors. This winning mentality seems to have spilled over into an obsession with being right and not willing to admit that maybe, just maybe we were wrong. We repeat mantras to ourselves like, "no matter what I will never ever surrender."

    Earlier this week I sat down with a group of five Combat Arms and Special Operations Veterans. The round table discussed our individual feelings on the flag, the anthem, and the players who knelt when it was played. We all had very different takes, but what surprised me most at the end of the discussion was that we all agreed on one thing. Colin Kaepernick and President Trump should be the ones uniting our country together. Wait...what? I know it sounds crazy, but maybe that's exactly what we need to see. Maybe that's how we start to heal. Two men sit in a room and talk, simple as that.

    That's how it all started with Colin and I, neither of us knew that kneeling would be the result of our conversation. Colin wanted to sit, I wanted him to stand, and so we found a common ground on a knee alongside his teammates. I believe that progress and real change happens in this world when you reach across the divide, you build a bridge, you swallow your pride, you open your mind, you embrace what you don't understand, and ultimately you surrender.

    Now I don't pretend to speak for everyone who fought overseas, many veterans rightfully disagree with my position. But I do feel that I echo the sentiments of most war fighters when I say that what we hope for more than anything right now in America is unity. To deploy overseas, train, live with, fight alongside, and ultimately defend foreigners that you have little in common with is truly a challenging task. But returning home to a country that is so divided, so judgmental, and so hateful of one another is almost as difficult to deal with as burying a fallen comrade. In fact we're still losing our brothers in arms overseas right now and it's hardly mentioned it in the media; but that's OK, we don't risk our lives and sacrifice so much for fanfare or recognition. It's not at all why we do what we do. We do what we do because you are worth it, because we love you.

    I would love for those two leaders to have that conversation, but more than anything I just want us to love one another again. One great thing about freedom is that you get to choose everyday how you treat your neighbor. This IS the best country in the world, but we can always do better. I'm laying it all out there because I have to, I swore to defend this land and its people, and I will die trying. I know some people will hate this (we love to hate things these days), and I'll get called a disgrace to the Green Beret once again. But I don't care, the United States means more to me than any of that.

    Over the past year I've come across veterans from various walks of life. We may actually be the most diverse sub-culture in the America. Since I myself am a Green Beret, I want to share with you a couple of messages that were sent to me from men in my former unit. One of them is white, and one of them is black:

    "Hey brother. At first I was with you on the Kaepernick issue. However, I just stood in formation while one of our brothers was pulled off a plane with our nation's flag draped over the coffin. I had to fight back tears as I saw the pain in the eyes of Staff Sergeant T's wife and family. While I would like to sit here and tell you that I rose above it all, I have to be honest. My heart filled with rage. Rage for anyone who takes for granted the ideals and symbols that we fight and die for."

    "Hey Brother, this is J. I spent nearly 18 years in 10th Special Forces Group and wish I had an opportunity to meet a brother like yourself. I just want to say I appreciate your views on this national anthem and flag issue. I love our country, but at the same time I have to take the time to tell my sons to act a certain way out of fear for their lives when dealing with police officers. Most of my neighbors and friends here in MD are law enforcement personnel and will tell you they also have to act a certain way to avoid confrontation and situations that normally don't occur for those that are not of color. Not all officers are bad, the majority I believe are good and poor training is attributed to some of these issues we hear of. I really just want to thank you for your taking the time out to understand and convincing him to take a knee and not sit out on what we have fought for. God Bless You Bro!"

    Different backgrounds, different experiences, different colors, but at the end of the day they just want the same basic things for their families.

    So please, no more lines in the sand, not at home, not among our people. No more choosing sides, no more "for or against." I believe our Veterans will be called upon to lead the way in healing the world and solving its problems; right now our country needs that more than I can remember. So I'll be here, standing in the radical middle, doing what I can to continue fighting for those that can't fight for themselves. Let's get this thing fixed together, you and me. I love you all with all my heart.

    De Oppresso Liber

    -- Nate Boyer
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 10-13-2017 at 06:46 PM.



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  3. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    So that's your explanation? "Atrocities happen"?
    Explanation of what? Of war? Certainly. I would think the atrociousness of war would be quite trivially obvious. Surely you are not going to contest that? So, is there something else you thought I was explaining or would like me to explain? Because I'd be, like, happy to!

    Like they were just random events that happened by pure chance. No one is responsible. No one is "guilty"...
    Bzzt, wrong! I believe in morality, you see. I am hopelessly old-fashioned. I, unlike most people you know, believe in objective and absolute morality. I most certainly do blame and condemn, and do so wholeheartedly and, like you I think, a whole lot more consistently than most. So whoopdedoo. Yey for us. Let's sit around and listen to the perfection of our condemnation. I perceive, actually, that is precisely what you want to do, and my failure to do so has caused you misunderstanding, confusion, and agitation. So let's condemn and thus clear things up again, shall we?

    I do not approve of the Japanese internment camps. I condemn them. I once even wrote a poetic lament about this wrong. I have great sympathy for those who had to suffer this wrong. People who have committed no crime should not have to be imprisoned. That is unjust. In a perfect world, it shouldn't happen. And, it goes without saying, the decision-makers who decided to do this are culpable for their injustice, and to some lesser extent those henchmen who carried out their superiors' unjust wishes.

    Capesche? Are we happy now? Explaining is different than approving. I can explain something without approving of it. For example, with this, I would just say that if you find yourself an expatriot in a foreign country, say, China, and your home country, the United States, decided to launch a suicide bombing attack on China and kill thousands of her soldiers, you might be wise to get thineself up and out of China!. And if then China declares total war on the US, in what anyone can see will be a difficult and protracted conflict? Yeah, it might be smart to leave. Yeah, they may develop a bit of an Anti-American sentiment. Ya think?

    I'm just talking practicalities. Obviously they shouldn't be at all suspicious of the 100%, dyed-in-the-wool, gold and red true blue through and through ChristianAnarchist. But will they? You and I may know you're 100% loyal to China, but will they?

    Oh, so some other bad guys do bad things so it's OK for you to do bad things to others who did not hurt you. Ya, live that way if you want. I don't want to be around you for sure. You might decide that I'm one of the people you want to do atrocities to (oh, excuse me, they would just "happen" to me...)
    Wow, all of a sudden thou knowest me like a brother! Seriously, I considered adding the thousands of Japanese bodies to the dead. I guess if I had you would have understood better? The point was not justification/recrimination, but rather contrast of severity in:

    Being locked up (wrong, an outrage, yes, we know), vs.
    Being raped and thrown out a window. Or otherwise murdered en masse.

    Which, getting murdered en masse, sums up very well what war *is*, CA.

    That is all. I hope I have made myself more clear. And how did we get off on this? Circling back to that, so as to be even more clear:

    * In war, countries are going to do awful things. Namely: murder, and repeatedly. I think we can agree murder is a really bad thing?
    * If you propose that no flag of any country that has ever done awful thing in war -- that is, that has ever been involved in a war -- is worthy of respect or patriotism, then
    * Your list of potentially worthwhile flags is approximately: Zero. That's OK, of course: thou art an anarchist (as am I). Just realize that if that's the perspective you want to talk about this from, it makes anything thou hast to say on it completely devoid of meaning.

  4. #483
    Second point, to Imaginary-Pierzstyx who would be capable of understanding the following argument and might actually come back to this thread and make an interesting response to it:

    Elementary Logic:

    Hitler was a nationalist. You deludedly imagine all nationalists are Nazis. Hitler was a vegetarian. Are all vegetarians therefore Nazis?

    Case study:

    There are a billion people in India. About 95% of them are rabid nationalists. Rabid. The remaining 5% are infants under two years old about whom we have no definite information regarding their political leanings. Virtually no Indians, however, are Nazis. A large percentage of them have never even heard of Hitler. It is safe to say that Hitler and Nazi-ism exercise exceedingly little influence in Indian society.

    Maybe they'll do better with the infants.
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 10-14-2017 at 10:01 PM.

  5. #484
    Oh, in the spirit of explaining the concept of patriotism and community spirit to those are not living in Calcutta but are instead Smart, Superior Westerners(TM) and who thus think it's a stupid delusion:



    "We know we belong to the land, and the land we belong to is grand." So..... Nazis? Unthinking animalistic brutes, no doubt, at least. Yes?
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 10-14-2017 at 10:12 PM.

  6. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Explanation of what? Of war? Certainly. I would think the atrociousness of war would be quite trivially obvious. Surely you are not going to contest that? So, is there something else you thought I was explaining or would like me to explain? Because I'd be, like, happy to!

    Bzzt, wrong! I believe in morality, you see. I am hopelessly old-fashioned. I, unlike most people you know, believe in objective and absolute morality. I most certainly do blame and condemn, and do so wholeheartedly and, like you I think, a whole lot more consistently than most. So whoopdedoo. Yey for us. Let's sit around and listen to the perfection of our condemnation. I perceive, actually, that is precisely what you want to do, and my failure to do so has caused you misunderstanding, confusion, and agitation. So let's condemn and thus clear things up again, shall we?

    I do not approve of the Japanese internment camps. I condemn them. I once even wrote a poetic lament about this wrong. I have great sympathy for those who had to suffer this wrong. People who have committed no crime should not have to be imprisoned. That is unjust. In a perfect world, it shouldn't happen. And, it goes without saying, the decision-makers who decided to do this are culpable for their injustice, and to some lesser extent those henchmen who carried out their superiors' unjust wishes.

    Capesche? Are we happy now? Explaining is different than approving. I can explain something without approving of it. For example, with this, I would just say that if you find yourself an expatriot in a foreign country, say, China, and your home country, the United States, decided to launch a suicide bombing attack on China and kill thousands of her soldiers, you might be wise to get thineself up and out of China!. And if then China declares total war on the US, in what anyone can see will be a difficult and protracted conflict? Yeah, it might be smart to leave. Yeah, they may develop a bit of an Anti-American sentiment. Ya think?

    I'm just talking practicalities. Obviously they shouldn't be at all suspicious of the 100%, dyed-in-the-wool, gold and red true blue through and through ChristianAnarchist. But will they? You and I may know you're 100% loyal to China, but will they?

    Wow, all of a sudden thou knowest me like a brother! Seriously, I considered adding the thousands of Japanese bodies to the dead. I guess if I had you would have understood better? The point was not justification/recrimination, but rather contrast of severity in:

    Being locked up (wrong, an outrage, yes, we know), vs.
    Being raped and thrown out a window. Or otherwise murdered en masse.

    Which, getting murdered en masse, sums up very well what war *is*, CA.

    That is all. I hope I have made myself more clear. And how did we get off on this? Circling back to that, so as to be even more clear:

    * In war, countries are going to do awful things. Namely: murder, and repeatedly. I think we can agree murder is a really bad thing?
    * If you propose that no flag of any country that has ever done awful thing in war -- that is, that has ever been involved in a war -- is worthy of respect or patriotism, then
    * Your list of potentially worthwhile flags is approximately: Zero. That's OK, of course: thou art an anarchist (as am I). Just realize that if that's the perspective you want to talk about this from, it makes anything thou hast to say on it completely devoid of meaning.
    Deception and lies. I'm surprised at you, and you claim to be "anarchist". Maybe you need to look that term up. You claim I'm 100% for China?? Why do you speak such lies?? I'm not 100% (or even 1%) FOR any fiction called a "country" and you would know that (100%) if you read anything I've ever written. For you it's obvious you can't follow a subject and there's really no point in this back and forth with you because every post you change directions like a rabbit running from prey. I'm glad you can avoid the prey but hey, I'm not preying on you man!! I have no interest in wasting my time responding to your constant deviation from the subject at hand (which was, if you can look back that far) all about doing crime in the name of the (fiction) state and claiming it's ok. Spoiler - it's NOT!
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
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  7. #486
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
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    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    helmuth asserts: "...I most certainly do blame and condemn, and do so wholeheartedly..."

    ...oh, come on!...you do a lot more than that, helmuth!!!...you also facilite massive taxation to carry out your authoritarian republicrat 'sentences'...i care little if YOU blame or condemn me...it's when you authorize ?your republicrat cruds to debauch the treasury in order to feed your dog$ of war minion$...[pssst helmuth, the banksters are top dog$]
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 10-15-2017 at 09:48 AM.

  8. #487
    In the spirit of national togtherness, how about Obama give Trump a hand in resolving this issue between Trump and NFL owners/kneelers on respect for flag and anthem while troops are out there in the harms way?
    He had negitiation skills and some success in working with NFL owners.


    Father of Fallen Soldier Says White House Turned Down Request for Obama Phone Call

    Published January 07, 2011
    Shown here is Sgt. Sean Collins, who was killed Dec. 12 in Afghanistan. (Q13 FOX)

    It was bad enough that after Sgt. Sean Collins was killed in Afghanistan his parents received a senator's letter of condolence with the wrong name.
    But the soldier's father says the White House added to the sting by subsequently turning down a request for President Obama to personally call Collins' mother.

    Pat Collins, a retired lieutenant colonel, told Q13 FOX in Seattle that the family was told last month that the president could not fit it "into his schedule" to call mother Linda Collins about their son's death. Pat Collins, who initially made the request with the White House, said he would've understood, except for the fact that around the same time, Obama found an opening in his schedule for a much-publicized phone conversation with Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie.

    "He is the president of the United States, and he's a very busy man, very important man -- but then to find out that he fit it into his schedule to call the president of the Eagles to thank him for giving Michael Vick a second chance, that kind of burns a little bit," Collins said.
    After the attack, the Collins family received a letter of condolence from Washington Sen. Maria Cantwell. The top of the letter got Sgt. Sean Collins' name right, but the final paragraph referred to him as "Bryn."

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ama-phone.html

  9. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Deception and lies. I'm surprised at you, and you claim to be "anarchist". Maybe you need to look that term up. You claim I'm 100% for China?? Why do you speak such lies??
    Oh, please; it was a hypothetical! Gracious, has age dimmed you that much? Give me back the old CA, the one who reads!

    I'm not 100% (or even 1%) FOR any fiction called a "country" and you would know that (100%) if you read anything I've ever written.
    OK, then in the hypothetical let's agree instead to swear to the Chinese government you are 100% disloyal to America.. That you have completely disavowed your ex-homeland, America, and are totally willing and up for being traitorous to her. That would be a totally accurate description of your loyalties, just restating what you said above, and thus would not be offensive at all to you, yes? (Not that a hypothetical used to make an illustrative point should have been offensive to you in the first place, but I aim to please!)

    For you it's obvious you can't follow a subject and there's really no point in this back and forth with you because every post you change directions like a rabbit running from prey. I'm glad you can avoid the prey but hey, I'm not preying on you man!! I have no interest in wasting my time responding to your constant deviation from the subject at hand (which was, if you can look back that far) all about doing crime in the name of the (fiction) state and claiming it's ok. Spoiler - it's NOT!
    Thank you sincerely for the feedback! I do try to slow down and dumb down (somewhat) in order to be understood (sometimes) and I see that in this case I was still significantly exceeding the speed limit. No worries. I accept my ticket and learn from the mistake. But really and truly, I said about a dozen different times already in my thread with you the Big Reveal you tell us in the last sentence, and I did so in a whole bunch of different ways, just for redundancy, to be clear, ya know? I didn't know it needed a "spoiler alert" and so simply revealed it freely without warning. And I of course have said it hundreds of times over the years here on RPF, so really I shouldn't have to say it again ever, and did so mainly to make you feel better. You see, I have read your posts, CA --and remember! I can keep track of stuff like that and remember who's who, at least when the forum collapses down to a few dozen persons, as it has. I do know you, CA -- and like you! And agree with you on almost everything. You, it appears, just do not know me.

    No worries.



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  11. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    OK, then in the hypothetical let's agree instead to swear to the Chinese government you are 100% disloyal to America.. That you have completely disavowed your ex-homeland, America, and are totally willing and up for being traitorous to her. That would be a totally accurate description of your loyalties, just restating what you said above, and thus would not be offensive at all to you, yes? (Not that a hypothetical used to make an illustrative point should have been offensive to you in the first place, but I aim to please!)
    Ummmm, why in the world would anyone take u up on this "hypothetical"?? The whole thing sounds foolish. Do you even have a point??
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
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  12. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Ummm, Do you even have a point??
    Do I ever!!

    How about this: You, as a quasi-expatriot with no overwhelming interest in and absolutely zero love or affection for
    America, have no reason to get worked up and have such a strong opinion on this. It's, like, not your beef. Ne mying bye? You come in here all bothered and want to put down all the Americans who express any affection for their homeland and its ideals. You call them fascist, anti-freedom idiots and strut and preen about how Anarchist you are. 'Look at my Stateless feathers; aren't they pretty?' You call the country that they love a fiction and a delusion. It's a bad look, man. It's bad form. It makes you look bad, and it makes me look bad by association.

    It's possible to be an anarchist without being a pompous jerk.

    So, i gave you some of your own medicine. Only fair. And you didn't really like it, did you? So, CA, how do you think all the "delusional" "anti-freedom" morons felt when you were posting some of the things you posted in this thread?

    So, that's all. I can see both sides. I myself have an interesting perspective which thou couldst not care less about and probably doesn't matter, so I won't go into it. But I assure you, that at minimum: I can see both sides.

    You may (though almost certainly do not, since in this thread you seem to not remember anything about me) remember this thread we had with the other Christian___ on the board:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...25#post5011125

    How many times have *you* stayed conspicuously seated in a small group, or in a situation where people would really notice? Hmm? I have years of real-life experience being more hard-core on this flag issue than you will ever be.

    And yet.....

    And yet I can also see the virtue and value and sincerity in honoring one's country. I can relate to those who sometimes get a tear in their eye from the Red, White, and Blue. In fact, I'm one of them. More than once as I have sat for the Star Spangled Banner have I been filled with deep emotions and patriotism far stronger and more passionate than, in all likelihood, any of those standing half-heartedly.

    You know, the Ron Paul campaign had the motto Hope for America. So many of the songs written for Ron by his passionate supporters waxed poetic about and used the symbology of America. It ain't a sin to love America, CA. I promise you. It ain't a sin.

    Call me simple-minded, but I'll just leave you with this:



  13. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Do I ever!!

    How about this: You, as a quasi-expatriot with no overwhelming interest in and absolutely zero love or affection for
    America, have no reason to get worked up and have such a strong opinion on this. It's, like, not your beef. Ne mying bye? You come in here all bothered and want to put down all the Americans who express any affection for their homeland and its ideals. You call them fascist, anti-freedom idiots and strut and preen about how Anarchist you are. 'Look at my Stateless feathers; aren't they pretty?' You call the country that they love a fiction and a delusion. It's a bad look, man. It's bad form. It makes you look bad, and it makes me look bad by association.

    It's possible to be an anarchist without being a pompous jerk.

    So, i gave you some of your own medicine. Only fair. And you didn't really like it, did you? So, CA, how do you think all the "delusional" "anti-freedom" morons felt when you were posting some of the things you posted in this thread?

    So, that's all. I can see both sides. I myself have an interesting perspective which thou couldst not care less about and probably doesn't matter, so I won't go into it. But I assure you, that at minimum: I can see both sides.

    You may (though almost certainly do not, since in this thread you seem to not remember anything about me) remember this thread we had with the other Christian___ on the board:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...25#post5011125

    How many times have *you* stayed conspicuously seated in a small group, or in a situation where people would really notice? Hmm? I have years of real-life experience being more hard-core on this flag issue than you will ever be.

    And yet.....

    And yet I can also see the virtue and value and sincerity in honoring one's country. I can relate to those who sometimes get a tear in their eye from the Red, White, and Blue. In fact, I'm one of them. More than once as I have sat for the Star Spangled Banner have I been filled with deep emotions and patriotism far stronger and more passionate than, in all likelihood, any of those standing half-heartedly.

    You know, the Ron Paul campaign had the motto Hope for America. So many of the songs written for Ron by his passionate supporters waxed poetic about and used the symbology of America. It ain't a sin to love America, CA. I promise you. It ain't a sin.

    Call me simple-minded, but I'll just leave you with this:


    Ok, you're right. I'm a pompous jerk for pointing out the truth that your (and everyone else's) "country" is a legal fiction.

    But - your country is a legal fiction...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  14. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So please, no more lines in the sand, not at home, not among our people. No more choosing sides, no more "for or against."
    A strange thought, coming from a man who made it his profession and life's business to violently destroy and kill people who found themselves on the wrong side of the line in the sand from Uncle Sucker.

    Simply put, it seems like we just hate each other; and that is far more painful to me than any protest, or demonstration, or rally, or tweet. We're told to pick a side, there's a line drawn in the sand "are you with us or against us?"
    Yes, that we do, and that is the human condition, no matter how much you all hold hands, sing "Kum-by-ya" and want to think otherwise.

    The solution is not to use heavy handed government tactics of forcing people together, or SJW violence, but rather, to let people be, and let them live and associate with who they want to live and associate with.

    How radical, amirite?
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 10-22-2017 at 11:17 AM.

  15. #493
    Am I the only one that finds it ironic the nfl players criticize Trump while a lot of those players have scandals that include BEATING THE $#@! OUT OF THEIR SPOUSE?
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  16. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior_of_Freedom View Post
    Am I the only one that finds it ironic the nfl players criticize Trump while a lot of those players have scandals that include BEATING THE $#@! OUT OF THEIR SPOUSE?
    Yeah, I don't agree with putting the value of anyone higher than others but that doesn't mean someone can't do things better than the next guy. These guys are good at what they do and I like to watch a good football game! Used to think they aren't worth the $$$ they are getting but then we have lots of patients who have injuries they suffered in H.S. and college football programs that dog them their entire lives. They take chances out there for the entertainment of us all and they are worth what they are paid because they will only be able to work maybe 5 to 10 years on average so what they earn will have to support them and their injuries for the rest of their lives. Yeah, they make more than I do but hell, I don't have to deal with a 320 pound lineman knocking me over at full speed and slamming me down on my head and back...

    They are regular guys and some of them have temper problems, drinking problems, drug problems, sex infatuation (is that even a problem??) and some of them act out in ways that need to be punished one way or another...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  17. #495
    @TheTexan;


    Nearly Every Texans Player Kneeled During Today's National Anthem



    https://www.yahoo.com/news/nearly-ev...212831592.html


    In the wake of their team’s owner referring to them as “inmates,” nearly every member of the Houston Texans took a knee during Sunday’s pre-game national anthem.
    Save but a handful players, the Texans participated in a stunning display of unity ahead of their game against the Seattle Seahawks at CenturyLink Field in Washington. ESPN estimates that approximately 10 of the 50-plus-member team remained standing.



    Last edited by Danke; 10-29-2017 at 07:33 PM.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  18. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    TheTexan


    Nearly Every Texans Player Kneeled During Today's National Anthem



    https://www.yahoo.com/news/nearly-ev...212831592.html


    In the wake of their team’s owner referring to them as “inmates,” nearly every member of the Houston Texans took a knee during Sunday’s pre-game national anthem.
    Save but a handful players, the Texans participated in a stunning display of unity ahead of their game against the Seattle Seahawks at CenturyLink Field in Washington. ESPN estimates that approximately 10 of the 50-plus-member team remained standing.



    Just wait until more black people learn about the 3rd verse of the "National Anthem" and about the racist ideas of Keys. You think there will be any blacks who still stand for it? They wanted to make a big deal out of the "disrespect" for the anthem and guess what? It's going to come back to bite them. I give it 5 years and there will be a new anthem to replace this racist one...

    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.



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  20. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    @TheTexan;


    Nearly Every Texans Player Kneeled During Today's National Anthem



    https://www.yahoo.com/news/nearly-ev...212831592.html


    In the wake of their team’s owner referring to them as “inmates,” nearly every member of the Houston Texans took a knee during Sunday’s pre-game national anthem.
    Save but a handful players, the Texans participated in a stunning display of unity ahead of their game against the Seattle Seahawks at CenturyLink Field in Washington. ESPN estimates that approximately 10 of the 50-plus-member team remained standing.



    More evidence that the protesting players have a socialist bent. The "inmates running the asylum" comment has nothing to do with race. It's about the rights of the owners to run their business.

  21. #498
    It's amazing how many people who call themselves "Christian" fall for the idolatry of state worship. Show me anywhere where Christ saluted a flag, said a "pledge", or honored a "king" (other than God)...

    Honor your father and your mother, the goonerment is neither...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  22. #499
    Marshawn Lynch Stands Only For Mexican National Anthem

    Afro-Mexicans are treated like garbage and subject to extreme, racist violence in Mexico. Lynch has no problem standing for their national anthem.

    As I said, this is purely about hating America.


    More at: https://www.infowars.com/marshawn-ly...tional-anthem/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #500
    He missed the Miami Dolphins kneeling during the US anthem while standing during the UK anthem at their game in London Week #4. Guess Fox didn't cover it.

    Lynch didn't have anything to protest with Mexico I guess (game was in Mexico hence the playing of that anthem).

    https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/19/...iders-patriots

    Players who have taken a knee or sat during the national anthem the past two seasons have done so to protest police brutality and systemic injustices against people of color in the United States.

    That’s why Lynch stood for the Mexican national anthem. He’s not a citizen of that nation, and has nothing to protest as far as what goes on within their country.

    It’s similar to what the Miami Dolphins did in London against the Saints at Wembley, where players kneeled for the U.S. anthem, and stood for the British anthem.

    Because this isn’t a protest of anthems or nations, it’s a protest against inequality.

    Player protests have been used by the president and vice president to try and score political points with their conservative base. He tweeted about Lynch on Monday morning.

    His tweet came less than 20 minutes after the Fox News Network’s Fox & Friends ran a segment about Lynch sitting during the anthem on Sunday.

    Trump did not tweet about the Dolphins players standing for the British anthem and kneeling during the American one in Week 4.
    He only seems to tweet about black athletes covered on Fox News.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-20-2017 at 05:30 PM.

  24. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I do not approve of the Japanese internment camps. I condemn them. I once even wrote a poetic lament about this wrong. I have great sympathy for those who had to suffer this wrong. People who have committed no crime should not have to be imprisoned. That is unjust. In a perfect world, it shouldn't happen. And, it goes without saying, the decision-makers who decided to do this are culpable for their injustice, and to some lesser extent those henchmen who carried out their superiors' unjust wishes.
    I agree with you 99% here. Replace "lesser" with "greater" and I would agree with you 100%.

    I think it's the henchmen who are the most actionably culpable.

    If not for order-following minions - who are, after all, where the "rubber meets the road" - the relatively few order-giving decision makers at the top of the "chain of obedience" could do little more than spin their wheels uselessly. They'd be incapable of achieving "traction" - i.e., of committing crimes greater than those able to be perpetrated by any other individual or small group. Without their underlings, I would not be surprised if most such would-be criminals turned out to be little more than malicious cowards unwilling to get their own hands dirty (ŕ la Charles Manson, RIH).
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  25. #502
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  26. #503
    Are NFL players still protesting?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  27. #504
    Bump
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  29. #505
    Sports leagues need to stop getting involved in politics. The only thing that does is turn people away.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

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