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Thread: The problem with the NFL protestors

  1. #331

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    This is the kind of response to this nonsense I expect to see on RonPaulForums. Not all the goonerment worship I've seen in the last few years. What a bunch of lost souls looking for a foulking cause!! LIBERTY is the only cause worth promoting...
    T
    It is also interesting to see that this peaceful protest is getting a whole lot more flack on the forum than the violent ones.

    Go figure.
    There is no spoon.



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  3. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philmanoman View Post
    All I know is if I'm not hurting anyone
    And I don't want to stand ...for any for damn reason I choose....
    I'll be damned if someone gonna make me stand
    Be ready to fight if you think you'll force me to do what you want.

    Conversation
    "I won't stand for the flag...i wont stand

    Other guy
    "Oh yes you will...it upsets me so much ...im so offended...i will force you to stand

    Bull$#@! if that's supported on these forums
    Freedom my god damn add
    You understand what freedom is right?
    Has absolutely nothing to do with a flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    This is the kind of response to this nonsense I expect to see on RonPaulForums. Not all the goonerment worship I've seen in the last few years. What a bunch of lost souls looking for a foulking cause!! LIBERTY is the only cause worth promoting...
    T
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    On. The. Nose.
    Not even $#@!ing close. Show me a single quote on this forum saying the government should force people to stand at attention during the anthem or retract your false statement. Whether you agree or not, many people associate our flag and national anthem with our countries' founding, our constitution, and the liberties that we enjoy every day that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful and shameful. Anyone that does will be criticized as not being socially acceptable, as a consequence of their actions.

    If you want to kneel during the anthem you are free to do so. It seems like YOU are the one asking for government force to silence anyone speaking against your actions.

    This form of protest is the stupidest idea I've ever seen and the NFL will suffer gravely because of it.
    Last edited by spudea; 09-30-2017 at 02:00 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  4. #333

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    I just think its funny how half the country thinks they're resisting oppression by kneeling while the other half thinks that standing is an act of observance.




    Up is down and black is white. Just another day in Bizarro World.
    "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" - Sam Adams

  5. #334

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Not even $#@!ing close. Show me a single quote on this forum saying the government should force people to stand at attention during the anthem or retract your false statement. Whether you agree or not, many people associate our flag and national anthem with our countries' founding, our constitution, and the liberties that we enjoy every day that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful and shameful. Anyone that does will be criticized as not being socially acceptable, as a consequence of their actions.

    If you want to kneel during the anthem you are free to do so. It seems like YOU are the one asking for government force to silence anyone speaking against your actions.

    This form of protest is the stupidest idea I've ever seen and the NFL will suffer gravely because of it.
    I'm not asking the gov to do anything.

    YOU are the worshiper of the almighty state for all the unconstitutional wars, while at the same timing using the constitution to uphold your POV. These protests are about the militarization of the police state.

    As far as a consequence of actions, shall we all forget the REAL history of the US and the many wars & murders done in the name of "spreading democracy"?
    There is no spoon.

  6. #335

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    And oh waaaaaah. Now you are neg repping me for not supporting your form of "spreading democracy."

    I'll accept that.
    Last edited by Ender; 09-30-2017 at 02:22 PM.
    There is no spoon.

  7. #336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I'm not asking the gov to do anything.
    Neg reps for false statements. Still haven't shown me a quote on this forum supporting the use of force to make people stand, when you said that was "on the nose".

    YOU are the worshiper of the almighty state for all the unconstitutional wars
    Another false statement. Don't put that evil on me, show quote supporting unconstitutional wars or retract.

    These protests are about the militarization of the police state.
    Another false statement. I haven't seen anyone doing these protests has ever mentioned militarization of the police state. Kaepernick's view of oppression is drastically flawed. He should be condemned for advocating race wars.



    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  8. #337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Neg reps for false statements. Still haven't shown me a quote on this forum supporting the use of force to make people stand, when you said that was "on the nose".



    Another false statement. Don't put that evil on me, show quote supporting unconstitutional wars or retract.



    Another false statement. I haven't seen anyone doing these protests has ever mentioned militarization of the police state. Kaepernick's view of oppression is drastically flawed. He should be condemned for advocating race wars.

    ]
    Why is this all so personal to you? No statements made were about YOU. Good dialog is much more effective than neg reps, name-calling, and anger- especially over a peaceful protest.

    Again:

    Patriotism Is A Two-Edged Sword

    By Paul Craig Roberts

    PaulCraigRoberts.org

    September 29, 2017

    I sometimes wonder if America’s greatest threat is the population’s hyper-patriotism. The bulk of the population is now at work shutting down the NFL players’ First Amendment rights, and none of the incensed censors are capable of understanding that it is they, and not the NFL players, who are attacking the U.S. Constitution. We have been through all this flag business before, and federal courts have ruled for the protesters who burnt flags, wore them on their clothes, whatever. Yet, here we go again.

    Hardwick Clothes CEO pulls the company’s advertising from NFL games. Insofar as advertising helps Hardwick’s shareholders, CEO Allan Jones is hurting his own shareholders in order to protest the NFL players’ protests, a thought that probably never occurred to him.

    According to this report — white people across the country are burning their NFL shirts and their expensive tickets for which they paid hundreds of dollars.

    A Louisiana state representative has introduced legislation to ban state subsidies for the New Orleans Saints because of their “disgraceful protests.” It is OK with Rep. Kenny Havard for Louisiana taxpayers to give hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies to the NFL team as long as the players stand for the anthem, but not if they don’t. It apparently never occurred to Havard to question whether relatively poor Louisiana taxpayers should be giving hundreds of millions of dollars to a billionaire team owner. There is no doubt that the average salary of the Saints exceeds the average salary of Louisiana taxpayers.

    Former NFL quarterback John Elway declares: “I believe that this is the greatest country in the world,” and his personal belief takes care of the numerous protesters who clearly have a different view.

    Bill O’Reilly makes a guest appearance on Fox News berating the NFL protesters for ignoring the effect on US soldiers in Afghanistan who “are putting their life on the line.” Apparently, after all these years it still has not occurred to O’Reilly that the soldiers’ lives — and those of Afghans — are being put on the line by the military/security complex’s drive for profits and the neoconservative drive for US and Israeli hegemony.

    Trump sends out emails: “Do you stand with President Trump, our flag, and this great country” against the NFL protesters?

    The childishness of it all is an American embarrassment.


    The patriotic response is not only an attack on the First Amendment but also plays into the hands of Identity Politics, which has its own take on the matter. Julio Rosas writes in the HuffPost that standing for the national anthem is standing for white supremacy.
    This whole thing is just playing into the hands of TPTB and taking everyone's eye off of more important matters.

    JMHPO
    There is no spoon.

  9. #338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Why is this all so personal to you? No statements made were about YOU. Good dialog is much more effective than neg reps, name-calling, and anger- especially over a peaceful protest.

    Again:



    This whole thing is just playing into the hands of TPTB and taking everyone's eye off of more important matters.

    JMHPO
    + rep, should cover any damage from butthurt neg reppers.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen;

  10. #339

    Default

    Trump hijacks power of US president by the help of Russians.


    Now he hijacks the flag to pressure dissenters. He is not president for most Americans.
    Last edited by katsung47; 09-30-2017 at 06:39 PM.

  11. #340

  12. #341

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    NBA Orders Players To Stand For The National Anthem

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-30/nba-orders-players-stand-national-anthem
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #342

    Default

    Movement to Boycott NFL November 12 Growing

    https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/27024-movement-to-boycott-nfl-november-12-growing
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #343

    Default

    Another problem is that we're still talking about them...
    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  15. #344

    Default




    The American flag is a symbol of freedom.

    At the same time, yes, it is a figurative manifestation of statism and I totally get those who are saying "bravo to anyone refusing to salute/stand for/pledge allegiance to it."

    Am I the only one that can see both sides of this?
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  16. #345

  17. #346

    Default

    Stoking the fires... agent Lemon spewing coast to coast


  18. #347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Not even $#@!ing close. Show me a single quote on this forum saying the government should force people to stand at attention during the anthem or retract your false statement. Whether you agree or not, many people associate our flag and national anthem with our countries' founding, our constitution, and the liberties that we enjoy every day that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful and shameful. Anyone that does will be criticized as not being socially acceptable, as a consequence of their actions.

    If you want to kneel during the anthem you are free to do so. It seems like YOU are the one asking for government force to silence anyone speaking against your actions.

    This form of protest is the stupidest idea I've ever seen and the NFL will suffer gravely because of it.
    There is a conflict at play here, as so rationally discussed by Ron Paul in a couple of his videos on the subject. On the one side, there is the private property, business, employer rights side of the story, and on the other, there is the right to protest side.

    Ron falls on the private property side, but some see that as forced submission to the state, especially due to government funding of sports, which Ron does address and does not support.

    There is also a huge gap on what the "protest" is really is trying to accomplish. Both sides read into it exactly what they want. The truth is that the "reasoning" for this protest has changed so many times, there is no one answer. Trying to justify or condemn the "protest" based upon the goal is simply futile.

    The biggest picture view is that this is cheap politicking by Trump going against the socialist/communist strategy for overthrow of the nation. A lot to be opposed to, but nothing to support.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  19. #348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Not even $#@!ing close. Show me a single quote on this forum saying the government should force people to stand at attention during the anthem or retract your false statement. Whether you agree or not, many people associate our flag and national anthem with our countries' founding, our constitution, and the liberties that we enjoy every day that sets us apart from the rest of the world. Kneeling during the anthem is disrespectful and shameful. Anyone that does will be criticized as not being socially acceptable, as a consequence of their actions.

    If you want to kneel during the anthem you are free to do so. It seems like YOU are the one asking for government force to silence anyone speaking against your actions.

    This form of protest is the stupidest idea I've ever seen and the NFL will suffer gravely because of it.
    Ya but people can be "disrespectful" to a piece of cloth all they want. It USED to be a "free country" (not so much anymore). No one has any duty to "respect" your holy cloth or DO anything. That's freedom (something you claim people have died for). Seems so strange when people get their panties in a wad over people actually EXERCISING freedom and then you tell them to stop it because their exercise of freedom is hurting your sacred cloth. Don't you know that inanimate objects cannot feel? Neither can they "deserve" respect. If you have an IDEA (such as liberty) THAT may be worthy of respect (or not). Even then, if someone chooses to NOT respect your idea there's nothing you can (or should) do about it.

    Getting angry about such is a colossal waste of energy...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  20. #349

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    As we go headlong into this absurd, divisive, choreographed insanity
    I'm struck by this stark sober contrast of a nation
    soberly reminding themselves of their own insanity and horrors
    brought upon them by their own government.




    In the forest near old Butovo, about 5 kilometers south of the Moscow Ring Road, lies the largest burial place for victims of Stalin's purges in the whole Moscow region, a site of mass executions. At the small plot of land known as the Butovsky Shooting Range or "Butovsky Poligon," about 20,760 people were executed between August 1937 and October 1938. Among this were men and women, the old and the young, people from 70 different nationalities and many faiths and social classes.

    Seventy-seven years ago, in August 1937, the head of the NKVD ordered a high fence be erected around a remote five-hectare patch of oak forest glade. The construction was largely ignored by locals, who were told the site would be a shooting range, a rumor that frequent gunfire seemed to verify.

    More than 20,000 people were executed at the site in a little more than a year — an average of about 50 people per day. The diversity of those executed was stunning, including South African communists, Polish nationalists, Germans, Hindus, Chinese, Tatars and Jews. However, the site "specialized" in executions of Orthodox Christian clergy, targeted by the Soviet Union as supposedly counter-revolutionary elements in their atheist state.

    About 1,000 of the victims were clergy from the Russian Orthodox Church, and about 300 people from that number have since been beatified as saints. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russian Orthodox Church began commemorating the site, establishing a small wooden church on the site in 1996 and a larger church that has been active since 2007. Since the year 2000, the patriarch has led an annual service in the church of the martyrs to commemorate those killed in Butovo.

  21. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Ya but people can be "disrespectful" to a piece of cloth all they want. It USED to be a "free country" (not so much anymore). No one has any duty to "respect" your holy cloth or DO anything. That's freedom (something you claim people have died for). Seems so strange when people get their panties in a wad over people actually EXERCISING freedom and then you tell them to stop it because their exercise of freedom is hurting your sacred cloth. Don't you know that inanimate objects cannot feel? Neither can they "deserve" respect. If you have an IDEA (such as liberty) THAT may be worthy of respect (or not). Even then, if someone chooses to NOT respect your idea there's nothing you can (or should) do about it.

    Getting angry about such is a colossal waste of energy...
    They can also suffer the consequences of offending those who love their country, we are also free to protest their protest.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #351

    Default

    Once again, the usual suspects on this site prove just how inept they are when it comes to political strategy.

    "Hey, you know those overpaid, 85 IQ-equipped, drug-addled, brain-damaged, woman-beating degenerates whose popularity is currently in freefall for not understanding the importance of symbolism? LET'S SIDE WITH THEM! We understand symbolism even less than they do! BLM and libertarians are natural allies! After all, we both brainlessly bleat "$#@! da po-lees!" and have deranged fantasies about totalitarian oppression in a Western country! A match made in heaven!"

    Good lord didn't Rothbard's excursion into fruitlessly attempting to convert leftists teach you anything? Of course it didn't, look who I'm talking to.
    NeoReactionary. Anarcho-Feudalist.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

    Traditionalism is the most revolutionary ideology of our times.

    -Julius Evola


  23. #352

    Default

    seen any sports lately?
    how bout them sports?
    d'you fantasy sports?



    Last edited by Raginfridus; 10-01-2017 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Simple Jack gives a fuck, do you?
    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  24. #353

    Default





    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  25. #354

    Default

    If freedom isn't free, it isn't liberty - its license.

    "And maybe my life spent in a New Jersey-New York/Bay Area-L.A. pro-Semitic cocoon has left me naive. But I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them."
    - Joel Stein, LA TIMES

  26. #355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They can also suffer the consequences of offending those who love their country, we are also free to protest their protest.
    NOW you're getting down to reality!! Yes, one can exert violence when they are offended. It's a very real possibility when you consider the brutal reality -- "Man" is a violent dangerous animal. If you "offend" his beliefs (no matter how silly) he can become butthurt and punch you. If that's your strategy for "promoting" your ideas it's an old strategy but a popular one...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  27. #356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Once again, the usual suspects on this site prove just how inept they are when it comes to political strategy.

    "Hey, you know those overpaid, 85 IQ-equipped, drug-addled, brain-damaged, woman-beating degenerates whose popularity is currently in freefall for not understanding the importance of symbolism? LET'S SIDE WITH THEM! We understand symbolism even less than they do! BLM and libertarians are natural allies! After all, we both brainlessly bleat "$#@! da po-lees!" and have deranged fantasies about totalitarian oppression in a Western country! A match made in heaven!"

    Good lord didn't Rothbard's excursion into fruitlessly attempting to convert leftists teach you anything? Of course it didn't, look who I'm talking to.
    1. Liberty is unpopular. The popularity of the opinion or protest is irrelevant.

    2. If 85 iq degenerates are right then they're right. A bunch of ad hominem attacks won't change that.


    But of course you won't agree, look who I'm talking to. We all know the real reason you oppose siding with them.

  28. #357

  29. #358

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    Ron Paul: We Are “Seeing the Emergence of ‘Snowflakes’ on the Right “

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ron...lakes-america/
    Last edited by Natural Citizen;

  30. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    It is also interesting to see that this peaceful protest is getting a whole lot more flack on the forum than the violent ones.

    Go figure.
    The violent protests kind of speak for themselves. I don't think either of the Dr. Pauls would ever advocate violence as a way to protest. I can respond to violent or nonviolent protests in an appropriate way. Turning off a game and getting rid of gear harms nobody and should not upset anyone.

    I know DirecTV is going to have something to say about the thousands of dollars in refunds they have issued for their NFL Sunday Ticket packages. Game sponsors are likely making their voices heard as well.
    Last edited by euphemia; 10-01-2017 at 04:52 PM.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  31. #360

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    The violent protests kind of speak for themselves. I don't think either of the Dr. Pauls would ever advocate violence as a way to protest.
    I wasn't talking about the Pauls.
    There is no spoon.

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