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Thread: Republicans are bad, but Democrats are significantly worse.

  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    You mean like the FED which has been backed by almost every politician since its inception, except Ron Paul? It was a Republican president that got rid of the gold standard.
    I think you're confused about my argument.

    Let me explain:

    Normally wanting to "End the Fed" is a good thing. But only if you replace it with something better like a free market, most likely gold backed system. But if you want to replace the Fed with the government, that's worse than the Fed and that's what Kucinich wants to do.

    Suppose to want to eliminate the $7 minimum wage. That'd be good thing unless you wanted to replace it with a $15 minimum wage, right?



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  3. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Are the republicans actually worse because their perceived standards are much higher than avowed socialist control freaks? The democrats are pretty frank about their sinister goals in 2017. Sure, they may camouflage their rhetoric with the appeal to the middle class, but's it's pretty clear cut. Dealing with the external enemy is easier than combatting the enemy within, which defines the Republican party in a nutshell.
    Are we talking about the voters of each party or the politicians or both?

    Also who is worse the man who beats me up or the man who tries to slit my throat?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I think you're confused about my argument.

    Let me explain:

    Normally wanting to "End the Fed" is a good thing. But only if you replace it with something better like a free market, most likely gold backed system. But if you want to replace the Fed with the government, that's worse than the Fed and that's what Kucinich wants to do.

    Suppose to want to eliminate the $7 minimum wage. That'd be good thing unless you wanted to replace it with a $15 minimum wage, right?
    I agree completely about the free market. We are much more on the same page than you think.

    My explanation in another post was to show that Kucinich was wanting to basically restore how the US had operated before the FED. I am NOT in favor of this (or the FED), but I do believe Kucinich was a pretty honest man, even if I do not particularly agree with his POV. I think this is why he and Ron were friends. Ron didn't have to agree with him but he knew he could trust him.
    There is no spoon.

  5. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Are we talking about the voters of each party or the politicians or both?

    Also who is worse the man who beats me up or the man who tries to slit my throat?
    The politicians mainly. Republican voters haven't been represented for decades.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  6. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The politicians mainly. Republican voters haven't been represented for decades.
    That's what they get for nominating Democrats in drag for no logical reason other than they're not politically correct. They certainly can't blame us for that.

    So, is torpedoing the theory of the headline of the thread really the best way to keep it bumped, and keep that divisive message atop the New Posts board? Are you really so committed to keeping that false impression of libertarians prominent that you'll deny it just to promote it?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-24-2017 at 10:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

  7. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's what they get for nominating Democrats in drag for no logical reason other than they're not politically correct. They certainly can't blame us for that.

    So, is torpedoing the theory of the headline of the thread really the best way to keep it bumped, and keep that divisive message atop the New Posts board? Are you really so committed to keeping that false impression of libertarians prominent that you'll deny it just to promote it?
    Not exactly.
    But "torpedoing the theory " is a good idea.

    Ron Paul was Inspired to run for office by a Democrat. and was advised that party made no difference.

    And this partisan bickering distracts from the issues and Principles behind them.

    Torpedoing the petty idea that one is any better intrinsically is a valid ambition.

    Last edited by pcosmar; 09-24-2017 at 10:43 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  8. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    The politicians mainly. Republican voters haven't been represented for decades.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's what they get for nominating Democrats in drag for no logical reason other than they're not politically correct. They certainly can't blame us for that.

    So, is torpedoing the theory of the headline of the thread really the best way to keep it bumped, and keep that divisive message atop the New Posts board? Are you really so committed to keeping that false impression of libertarians prominent that you'll deny it just to promote it?
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Not exactly.
    But "torpedoing the theory " is a good idea.

    Ron Paul was Inspired to run for office by a Democrat. and was advised that party made no difference.

    And this partisan bickering distracts from the issues and Principles behind them.

    Torpedoing the petty idea that one is any better intrinsically is a valid ambition.

    Most Republican politicians are bad, ALL Democrat politicians are bad.

    Most Republican voters are salvageable, few Democrat voters are.

    Republican politicians do great harm to liberty, Democrat politicians do massive harm to liberty.

    Republican voters generally want less government than Democrat voters.


    ???? I wonder which side is easier to convert or work with ????
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 09-24-2017 at 12:34 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    As much as I can't stand republicans, democrats are a lot worse. If you disagree, name a few of the top freedom favoring republicans and then name a few of the top freedom favoring democrats.

    Rand Paul, Justin Amash, Thomas Massie.

    Your turn....

    I agree but why would anyone embrace this attitude of settling for the lesser of two turds?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  10. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ???? I wonder which side is easier to convert or work with ????
    You can't afford these politicians you praise, only principled politicians aren't bought and sold. We should only support liberty folks, people that have not been bought by Goldman Saches like Ted Cruz. As far as the people we should try to educate anyone who wants to listen on the benefits of society that promotes the most amount of freedom.

  11. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Most Republican politicians are bad, ALL Democrats politicians are bad.

    Most Republican voters are salvageable, few Democrat voters are.

    Republican politicians do great harm to liberty, Democrat politicians do massive harm to liberty.

    Republican voters generally want less government than Democrat voters.


    ???? I wonder which side is easier to convert or work with ????

    I think it depends on the issue.

    Dems are good on some civil liberties.

    Example, decriminalization of drugs/non-violent drug offenses, Dems are more receptive.

    The police state, I'm thinking Dems object more so.

    Civil asset forfeitures, not sure. Republicans say theyre for the rule of law, due process etc, but their unquestioned support for the police clouds their decision making.

    For profit prisons, again probably the Dems.

    The global empire, both groups are bad but the Dems probably object more to our non-stop warfare.

    The Second, smaller government, no taxes and fiscal conservatism, obviously the Right, at-least in rhetoric.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  12. #131
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    ... i have a buddy who votes for/supports these miserable stinking republicans because they are 'good on guns'... [ime, 'the gun issue' is more 'urban vs, rural' than 'd' vs. 'r']

    ...he's normally pretty smart about many things, but he, like all of the radio-republicans i know, can't get it through his skull that the gun violence which drives much of the stoooopid democrat legislative efforts to 'ban guns' is GREATLY EXACERBATED by these goddamned fool conservative republicans and their miserable 'war on drugs'/drug prohibition...

    ...please stop voting for these stinking republicans and democrats!!!..you are only encouraging these fools and thieves!...

    ...btw, i'd be very very very interested in hearing a somewhat detailed explanation of how a [imo, really stooooopid] 'gold money' system would/could work...i'm especially interested in the issuance/creation of 'new money'...detail$ please... ....i must tell you i've never met a republican/conservative 'gold-bugger' face-to-face i could not leave with a really really confused, dejected look on their face after exposing them as a monetary ignoramus......just simple questions...who, how, why, etc..
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 09-24-2017 at 01:24 PM.

  13. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    I think it depends on the issue.

    Dems are good on some civil liberties.

    Example, decriminalization of drugs/non-violent drug offenses, Dems are more receptive.

    The police state, I'm thinking Dems object more so.

    Civil asset forfeitures, not sure. Republicans say theyre for the rule of law, due process etc, but their unquestioned support for the police clouds their decision making.

    For profit prisons, again probably the Dems.

    The global empire, both groups are bad but the Dems probably object more to our non-stop warfare.

    The Second, smaller government, no taxes and fiscal conservatism, obviously the Right, at-least in rhetoric.
    I agree that dems are better on some civil rights, although they also support a lot of fake group rights that actually violate individual rights.

    But the dems are worse on property rights and to me that's more important. To me you start with property rights and then build from there. If you can't own property what good is it if you can smoke weed?

    Also as far as police brutality is concerned I would argue that the most practical solution is again to enforce property rights. I think there'd be way less problems with the police if we didn't have crime ridden slums caused by the lack of property rights. The democrats argue more against police brutality but their solution of more wealth distribution (= theft and less property rights) only makes the root problem worse.

  14. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    I think it depends on the issue.

    Dems are good on some civil liberties.

    Example, decriminalization of drugs/non-violent drug offenses, Dems are more receptive.

    The police state, I'm thinking Dems object more so.

    Civil asset forfeitures, not sure. Republicans say theyre for the rule of law, due process etc, but their unquestioned support for the police clouds their decision making.

    For profit prisons, again probably the Dems.

    The global empire, both groups are bad but the Dems probably object more to our non-stop warfare.

    The Second, smaller government, no taxes and fiscal conservatism, obviously the Right, at-least in rhetoric.
    Pretty much. Republicans declared "war on drugs", "war on crime", and "war on terror". Dems declared "war on poverty". Either way, The People lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  15. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I agree completely about the free market. We are much more on the same page than you think.
    I've seen you support the free market before which is why I'm confused about Kucinich. Kucinich is arguably the most anti free market and anti property rights US politician on record.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    My explanation in another post was to show that Kucinich was wanting to basically restore how the US had operated before the FED. I am NOT in favor of this (or the FED), but I do believe Kucinich was a pretty honest man, even if I do not particularly agree with his POV. I think this is why he and Ron were friends. Ron didn't have to agree with him but he knew he could trust him.
    No, you're wrong. Kucinich doesn't want to return to the US before the Fed where we had a gold standard much of the time and inflation was controlled. He wants to move to something much worse than before the Fed or during the Fed. He wants a government fiat currency unbacked by gold where printing money is unrestricted.

    So the only redeeming quality for Kucinich is that he's anti war. But like I said before so was Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez. That's not good enough.

  16. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I agree that dems are better on some civil rights, although they also support a lot of fake group rights that actually violate individual rights.

    But the dems are worse on property rights and to me that's more important. To me you start with property rights and then build from there. If you can't own property what good is it if you can smoke weed?

    Also as far as police brutality is concerned I would argue that the most practical solution is again to enforce property rights. I think there'd be way less problems with the police if we didn't have crime ridden slums caused by the lack of property rights. The democrats argue more against police brutality but their solution of more wealth distribution (= theft and less property rights) only makes the root problem worse.
    I always look at this way.

    Singapore curbs civil liberties. You can't speak out against the government. They execute you if you deal drugs. You can get brutally cained for graffiti. They rank very low in political freedom and civil liberties. https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...2017/singapore

    Whereas Portugal ranks much higher than the US on civil liberties and personal freedom. https://freedomhouse.org/report/free.../2017/portugal https://freedomhouse.org/report/free.../united-states It is one of the freest places in the world in those areas.

    Where would I rather live: Singapore or Portugal? Singapore without a doubt. They have a much greater respect for property rights. Portugal is almost a third world country. I just won't spray paint cars and I will be okay. Nothing else matters without economic freedom.

  17. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Example, decriminalization of drugs/non-violent drug offenses, Dems are more receptive.
    No, they are not. They want to give the market to their friends so they can make money and get taxes from it.

    The only one who mentioned it in the campaign was Rand Paul.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  18. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I always look at this way.

    Singapore curbs civil liberties. You can't speak out against the government. They execute you if you deal drugs. You can get brutally cained for graffiti. They rank very low in political freedom and civil liberties. https://freedomhouse.org/report/free...2017/singapore

    Whereas Portugal ranks much higher than the US on civil liberties and personal freedom. https://freedomhouse.org/report/free.../2017/portugal https://freedomhouse.org/report/free.../united-states It is one of the freest places in the world in those areas.

    Where would I rather live: Singapore or Portugal? Singapore without a doubt. They have a much greater respect for property rights. Portugal is almost a third world country. I just won't spray paint cars and I will be okay. Nothing else matters without economic freedom.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Krugminator2 again."

  19. #138

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    The only way I could ever see myself voting for Kucininch would be if he made Ron Paul his Vp which I believe he's got on record a few times saying he would do that. I'm sure Paul would be able to keep Kucininch in check.

  20. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    The only way I could ever see myself voting for Kucininch would be if he made Ron Paul his Vp which I believe he's got on record a few times saying he would do that. I'm sure Paul would be able to keep Kucininch in check.
    Where does this "VPOTUS as a check against POTUS" theory come from? It would make a little sense in early US history when there was no such thing as "running mates" and VPOTUS was just the 2nd place winnar. When the POTUS gets to pick his own VPOTUS it isn't so plausible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  21. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    But the dems are worse on property rights and to me that's more important. To me you start with property rights and then build from there. If you can't own property what good is it if you can smoke weed?


    ...good god man!...get real!...history has shown that your stinking republicans foist as much, if not more, government $pending as the stinking democrats!!...that $pending results, essentially, in a pledge of YOUR AND MY PROPERTY to pay for it!!...ugh...

  22. #141

  23. #142

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    I like to look at policy over party, but i do have to say that the democratic platform is directly opposed to everything i find moral. I dislike republicans but i cant stand democrats.

  24. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by H. E. Panqui View Post


    ...good god man!...get real!...history has shown that your stinking republicans foist as much, if not more, government $pending as the stinking democrats!!...that $pending results, essentially, in a pledge of YOUR AND MY PROPERTY to pay for it!!...ugh...
    They're not my republicans.

  25. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I agree that dems are better on some civil rights, although they also support a lot of fake group rights that actually violate individual rights.

    But the dems are worse on property rights and to me that's more important. To me you start with property rights and then build from there. If you can't own property what good is it if you can smoke weed?

    Also as far as police brutality is concerned I would argue that the most practical solution is again to enforce property rights. I think there'd be way less problems with the police if we didn't have crime ridden slums caused by the lack of property rights. The democrats argue more against police brutality but their solution of more wealth distribution (= theft and less property rights) only makes the root problem worse.
    Right, the Dems are essentially socialists who dont believe in private property.

    I would argue that the Second is the most important issue but I see your point.

    I was referring more to the police state: mass warrant-less spying, civil asset forfeitures, the militarization of the police, SWAT raids, checkpoints etc.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  26. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    No, they are not. They want to give the market to their friends so they can make money and get taxes from it.

    The only one who mentioned it in the campaign was Rand Paul.
    Crony Capitalism?

    I cant defend that but again, I think theyre still more receptive to the idea of de-criminalizing drugs, acknowledging the injustice of jailing non-violent drug offenders etc.

    Republicans are still clinging on to this idea that drugs are the root of all evil and that somehow it makes sense to strip people of their freedoms for getting high...

    Referring to street drugs, not the legal ones: alcohol, tobacco or prescription meds.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  27. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Most Republican politicians are bad, ALL Democrat politicians are bad.

    Most Republican voters are salvageable, few Democrat voters are.


    Republican politicians do great harm to liberty, Democrat politicians do massive harm to liberty.

    Republican voters generally want less government than Democrat voters.


    ???? I wonder which side is easier to convert or work with ????
    Source? I've found that what republicans say about smaller government is often not what they really mean. How do you know most are salvageable? Have you done a study with a significantly large sample? Anyone can throw claims around. Proving it is a different matter. ~hugs~
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao!

  28. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Also as far as police brutality is concerned I would argue that the most practical solution is again to enforce property rights. I think there'd be way less problems with the police if we didn't have crime ridden slums caused by the lack of property rights. The democrats argue more against police brutality but their solution of more wealth distribution (= theft and less property rights) only makes the root problem worse.
    At least you're right about this. If property rights were enforced, there would be no government police.

  29. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    At least you're right about this. If property rights were enforced, there would be no government police.
    How?

  30. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    How?
    How are they going to pay the police without stealing your property (money)?

  31. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    How are they going to pay the police without stealing your property (money)?
    Voluntary donations?

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