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Oh, good. Welcom to my boobie trap.
So, then, Natural Law is out the window because the anarchist's form of heirarchy permits for the murder a human being since his right tolife was dictated by economic justification?
Do you see what you're saying here? I mean, really. Do you?
You're going to have a State regardless. This is what you people aren't understanding.
In a socialist society, the socialist is going to come take your property at the barrel of a gun. Reason why is because he knows that his hierarchy is going to fail and he needs your wealth and your property in order to support his program. The socialist will never accept your right to take care of yourself and to not need anything from anyone. Never. There's no opting out.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-19-2017 at 05:42 PM.
What trap? What economic justification? Your right to your life derives from your right to your property. If you are on someone else's property, you have no rights. Unless they invited you on to that pole, then the owner transferred the right to your person to you, and they would have to assist you. If they didn't invite you onto the pole, then you are at the pole owner's mercy.
This is why nobody takes libertarians seriously. This is why we're always at the receiving end of everybody's jokes.
Property is the principal material support of a man's God-given, unalienable, rights. Your rights to life and liberty do not come from your warez. They come from God. You have your warez because God gave you the right to them. You did not give you the right to them. And you do not decide another man's unalienable rights to life and liberty.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-19-2017 at 06:01 PM.
Your God given right is your right to property, from which you get your right to life and liberty. If you don't have the right to property, then you can't have a right to your life or liberty. You can rightfully be made a slave to whomever claims ownership over your property.
Anyway. Rev, you've got more patience for the riff raff than I do. Have fun.
Ya' know, if your reading comprehension skills were the equal of your hubris, we might have a productive discussion. But that would interfere with your non-axiomatic proclamations defended with derision. So I agree, coloring is intellectually superior to conversing with you.
In regards to Rev (Hanover Jane*), I don't think you and he are talking about the same thing in regards to social hierarchy.
*that was pretty frikkin clever.
All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
-Albert Camus
Hey, O. Thank You. Really. I share Ron Paul's position on it. Anarchy is voluntary socialism. So how is it that you think anarchy is non-socialist?
Libertarianism gives full legal protection for anarchy (voluntary socialism.) That's okay with me so long as you're a true libertarian and have rejected the use of force because, then I don't have to worry about you. If you want to get together and have voluntary socialism, then, you're allowed to do that.
But..I should be allowed to opt out. And therein lies the problem. Voluntary socialism is so inefficient that the socialists already know that their system is going to fail so they use the force of a government gun to come and take money and property from the people who aren't socialists in order to subsidize their program.
Now, while Libertarianism allows for voluntary socialism, the socialists will never endorse the idea of you having your personal liberty where you can take care of yourself and not ask for anything from anyone else.
Really, I'm just quoting our namesake here.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-19-2017 at 06:53 PM.
He ain't my daddy.
States don't need to define borders, property, or liberty for mankind to prosper on the Earth. Societies don't need the State to continue, and many will continue regardless of who's won the Hill. The conceit we need States to define borders for our safety is pathetic, because most boundaries today fall along natural barriers. Humans don't need the State's social engineers to guide and police us. On the other hand, Anarchy implying lawlessness, hedonism, and cultural stagnation, the end of civilization, might makes right, and other spook stories - nobody wants these things.
Uruk and all it's descendant States have been founded solely to redistribute wealth into the hands of the mightier, and they've all done so through smooth speech, tricks, and enforcers. Mankind didn't need the Pharaohs to placate the gods, any more than we today need the State, which has always been meant mandatory Welfare. For these few and other reasons, I'm dissatisfied overall with both concepts of State and Anarchy.
Unfortunately there are no other choices, you have place your bet on one or the other. (Tribalism is a state)
Since there is a pretty good argument that anarchy will fall to any organized force intent on creating a state I would rather create the state and control it's form and limits.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Liberty-Responsibility is obscure. Libertinism has taken over and claimed libertarianism's identity.
I get this stuff from knowing what I'm talking about.
Ask any real anarchist what he thinks about capitalism and get back to me. Any real anarchist worth his weight in keystrokes will argue that there are capitalist transactions which are not voluntary. He'll argue that in order to maintain the structure of a capitalist society that it will require coercion which ultimately would violate anarchist principles. Ron Paul doesn't need to specifically say the words anyway. It should be commonly understood by anyone who is actually knowledgeable on the subject of Liberty-Responsibility.
Respectfully, Origanalist, the fact that you even ask me where I dream this stuff up tells me that you do not understand Liberty-Responsibility. It tells me that you likely do not really understand the ism which you've inserted into discussion. Unfortunately, it just confirms my first thought in my response here. Sad. I'll tell you, man, it's really getting to the point that in order to truthfully and effectively educate people on matters of Liberty-Responsibility, we have to go against our own in order to do so. Reason being is that it's our own who have bastardized it and turned it into a libertine circus.
Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-19-2017 at 09:07 PM.
A right is by definition the opposite of a wrong. Nothing immoral can be right, and nothing right can be immoral.
.You don't sound like you've thought about the words you're throwing around. Rights are absolute, and cannot be given, taken, or transferred. Right and wrong, ergo your rights, exist regardless of where you are. And your right to your person is owned by no other, therefore no one, property owner or not, can possibly transfer it to you.
Amash>Trump
ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ
"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77
"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather
"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy
circular logic.
I've never heard that before. Do anarchists on RPF say that(and could you provide examples)? Also, how are you defining "real anarchists"?
didn't you claim he did say them in that video?
Amash>Trump
ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ
"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77
"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather
"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy
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