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Thread: Should Libertarians support anarcho-capitalism?

  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    People already do this, tho. They just link to a thread(s) where the question has already been answered. Happens all the time. Welcome to the world of forums!
    The problem is that no book or past thread has ever answered the question of how an AC can prevent a government from forming, either internally or externally.

    The only way to prevent government from forming is if ALL humans voluntarily stop using force against other humans and I don't see that happening anytime soon.



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  3. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Or you can read the forum? People that have formulated their own answers?
    Anarcho-Capitalist is an oxymoron.

    Oxymorons are, of course, the byproduct of formulating one's own answers without thinking them through all the way.

    The fact that one's oxymoron happened to occur on a forum is of little relevance other than giving oneself a sticker for being publicly shortsighted. Respectfully speaking.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-17-2017 at 01:14 PM.

  4. #363

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    The problem is that no book or past thread has ever answered the question of how an AC can prevent a government from forming, either internally or externally.

    The only way to prevent government from forming is if ALL humans voluntarily stop using force against other humans and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
    If that question can't be answered, perhaps there's no answer. Maybe the question misses the mark and misunderstands AC. Maybe AC is inadequate, or maybe there are answers to that question, but they haven't been marketed so well...

    The onus to experiment is on individuals in anarchy. Ultimately, you can't just tell a group of individuals they're wrong for opting out of anarchy, if they so choose to. You either respect their decision or you don't, then act according to what's wisest for yourself or your group (unless the anarchy fairy has abolished all groups of any kind, in which case no worries).

  5. #364
    Everyone is always looking for some sort of Utopia on earth. The anarchists remind me of communists who seem to sincerely believe that their system can really work if we just try it!

    A Utopia (or anything even close to it) is never going to happen. Well, not by the hand of man alone. I do believe that there will be peace on earth someday, but not until after the end of this age.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  6. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    We'll just call up the militia. "Hey, Fred. I'm not going to make the 9 am tee time. I have to take my F-16 out of the barn and get it ready."
    I'm imagining a bunch of disorganized pilots in some border town trying to take on the Mexican Air Force.
    Stop believing stupid things

  7. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Everyone is always looking for some sort of Utopia on earth. The anarchists remind me of communists who seem to sincerely believe that their system can really work if we just try it!

    A Utopia (or anything even close to it) is never going to happen. Well, not by the hand of man alone. I do believe that there will be peace on earth someday, but not until after the end of this age.
    Nonsense. Anarcho-capitalists are realists. (and I'm a Voluntaryist, not an ancap) Minarchists are in utter denial of praxaeology and history. They are very utopian-though not to the extent of anarcho-communists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  8. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Nonsense. Anarcho-capitalists are realists. (and I'm a Voluntaryist, not an ancap) Minarchists are in utter denial of praxaeology and history. They are very utopian-though not to the extent of anarcho-communists.
    Wait a minute. So you're saying that anarcho-capitalists such as Murray Rothbard and Hans-Hermann Hoppe have more of a right to the term ''libertarian'' than minarchist libertarians, such as Ron Paul and Ludwig von Mises? Ha. Jump back. You have to explain this one, HB. Sorry, buddy.

    How so?

    As far as history, you people need to get your definition of Anarchy straight. Historically, Anarchists have been chaotic leftists. These were Socialists who sought destruction of whatever was the current state of things. Anarchists, historically, reject private ownership of goods and services. Anarchists, historically, reject not only private property rights, but they also reject people who own and run businesses.

    And now you're gonna hyphenate that philosophy with capitalism and call it realist? Are you smoking dope, man? Jiminy gosh darned crickets. I've heard it all now. I really have. Pinch my butt and call me Shirly.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-17-2017 at 03:12 PM.

  9. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Nonsense. Anarcho-capitalists are realists. (and I'm a Voluntaryist, not an ancap) Minarchists are in utter denial of praxaeology and history. They are very utopian-though not to the extent of anarcho-communists.
    How can ACs be realists when there aren't any ACs in existence?



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  11. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    If that question can't be answered, perhaps there's no answer. Maybe the question misses the mark and misunderstands AC. Maybe AC is inadequate, or maybe there are answers to that question, but they haven't been marketed so well...

    The onus to experiment is on individuals in anarchy. Ultimately, you can't just tell a group of individuals they're wrong for opting out of anarchy, if they so choose to. You either respect their decision or you don't, then act according to what's wisest for yourself or your group (unless the anarchy fairy has abolished all groups of any kind, in which case no worries).
    While the anarchists are busy trying to invent a perpetual energy machine the minarchists are busy trying to fix the actual generators in existence.

  12. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    How can ACs be realists when there aren't any ACs in existence?
    Wut? Noez, you caught teh full retard from NC!!!! :'(

    WE MUST STOP THIS BEFORE IT SPREADS!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  13. #371
    Ancaps, here's some advice. Lose the word ancap and just call yourselves, in the words of the man whom you're echoing, "Propertarians."

    You're not Anarchists, though. lol.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-17-2017 at 02:59 PM.

  14. #372
    meh
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 10-17-2017 at 03:06 PM.

  15. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Wut? Noez, you caught teh full retard from NC!!!! :'(

    WE MUST STOP THIS BEFORE IT SPREADS!!!
    Give me an example.

  16. #374
    @heavenlyboy34 A Son of liberty did say that there were literally only 3 on this site. Do you disagree with him?
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  17. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    While the anarchists are busy trying to invent a perpetual energy machine the minarchists are busy trying to fix the actual generators in existence.
    Flawed analogy. The minarchists' "machine" still only exists on paper. It's 5% built and they tinker with it in the garage as they go along. They haven't even got an actual coherent theory to explain it in a rational way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  18. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Flawed analogy. The minarchists' "machine" still only exists on paper. It's 5% built and they tinker with it in the garage as they go along. They haven't even got an actual coherent theory to explain it in a rational way.
    OK, give me an example of an AC. A current one would be preferable.



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  20. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    OK, give me an example of an AC. A current one would be preferable.
    here' a link for a list of current anarchist societies. You'll have to scroll down past the list of current minarchies first.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  21. #378
    Don't click otherone's link. It's just a stupid meme. And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. lol.

  22. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Don't click otherone's link. It's just a stupid meme. And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. lol.
    it's only a stupid meme if you've missed the point.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  23. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    it's only a stupid meme if you've missed the point.
    You have no point aside from that erection on your face. lol.

  24. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    You have no point aside from that erection on your face. lol.
    Ha! Good one! Now I say, "dootie", and you proclaim "VICTORY". It's cyclical. Seriously surprised you didn't get the point though.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  25. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Ha! Good one! Now I say, "dootie", and you proclaim "VICTORY". It's cyclical. Seriously surprised you didn't get the point though.
    No, I'm gonna go make some spaghetti. Peace out, bruh.

  26. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Don't click otherone's link. It's just a stupid meme. And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. lol.
    ^^From the guy nobody takes seriously anymore... LOLOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  27. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    @heavenlyboy34 A Son of liberty did say that there were literally only 3 on this site. Do you disagree with him?
    Sounds about right. I haven't done a head count lately. I'm a busy boy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  29. #385
    in beer veritas

  30. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Sounds about right. I haven't done a head count lately. I'm a busy boy.
    There were more than 3 on this thread alone, and I can see there are more on other threads, so I don't know what site you guys are talking about.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  31. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    here' a link for a list of current anarchist societies. You'll have to scroll down past the list of current minarchies first.

    Hong Kong, Singapore, New Zealand, Switzerland, Australia. Those are the top 5 on the Heritage economic freedom list. Obviously not perfect but compare that to the bottom 5, Eritrea, Republic of Congo, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea.

  32. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Don't click otherone's link. It's just a stupid meme. And they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. lol.
    Yeah, there's never any logical arguments or actual evidence coming from the ACs. Just fluff and links to fluff.

  33. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Everyone is always looking for some sort of Utopia on earth. The anarchists remind me of communists who seem to sincerely believe that their system can really work if we just try it!
    Why do you assume an anarchist believes the lack of a state would lead to utopia? Did anyone claim that here or anywhere?

    I get it. You folks don't like the idea of private law. People with money would just bribe the judges. We need a state because you don't have injustice in state courts.

    You don't like the idea of private security. Someone else's security agency would attack you and steal from you if you couldn't afford to hire your own to protect you. We need a state because government police don't attack innocent people or steal from them.

    You don't like the idea of private security because they would just attack each other in an attempt to become governments and rule over everyone. We need a state because they have no need for wars of aggression.

    All of the $#@!ty things that happen in the world now would happen with or without a state ruling over you. The questions are, would private people making their own decisions lead to better solutions, and if a state does nothing to eliminate the bad things, but often exacerbates them, then why institutionalize making people slaves to them?

  34. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    Why do you assume an anarchist believes the lack of a state would lead to utopia? Did anyone claim that here or anywhere?

    I get it. You folks don't like the idea of private law. People with money would just bribe the judges. We need a state because you don't have injustice in state courts.

    You don't like the idea of private security. Someone else's security agency would attack you and steal from you if you couldn't afford to hire your own to protect you. We need a state because government police don't attack innocent people or steal from them.

    You don't like the idea of private security because they would just attack each other in an attempt to become governments and rule over everyone. We need a state because they have no need for wars of aggression.

    All of the $#@!ty things that happen in the world now would happen with or without a state ruling over you. The questions are, would private people making their own decisions lead to better solutions, and if a state does nothing to eliminate the bad things, but often exacerbates them, then why institutionalize making people slaves to them?
    A state reduces injustice, we do not claim it eliminates it, and those private agencies would end up imposing themselves on everyone and becoming a tyrannical state, the best option is to beat them to the punch and create a state designed to minimize injustice.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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