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Thread: Should Libertarians support anarcho-capitalism?

  1. #1

    Should Libertarians support anarcho-capitalism?

    What is your stance?
    "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever." - Founding Father Thomas Jefferson



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  3. #2
    It is a fantasy designed to make our side sound stupid and dangerous.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    I dunno.

    How would you enforce it?

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is a fantasy designed to make our side sound stupid and dangerous.
    Our side?
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Our side?
    Those who want less government as opposed to more.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Real libertarians do support it or another variety of anarcho-libertarianism. The non-anarchists are wishy-washy moderates at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Those who want less government as opposed to more.
    Less government, hmmm, now that is a very nice fantasy.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Less government, hmmm, now that is a very nice fantasy.
    No it is quite possible, we used to have less, if you don't think we can achieve less government I am not sure why you are here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    In an environment of anarchy, I suspect most people will form into groups based on race. They will begin talking and the best and brightest of the group will lead them into forming an organized society. People want some form of collectivism, even if its minimal.

    I believe in ethno-nationalism managed according to libertarian principles of a neutral foreign policy, gold standard, free markets, and civil liberties. People of the same race naturally form a common culture. I believe race is the starting point, not the individual. The fundamental purpose of government is to protect the race. All world historical events are nothing more than the expression of self preservation of the races, for better or worse.
    Last edited by Impartial_Truth; 09-16-2017 at 07:16 PM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No it is quite possible, we used to have less, if you don't think we can achieve less government I am not sure why you are here.
    Yes, we used to have less. Going all the way back to the revolutionary war. And it's been all downhill from there.

    I'm here because I learned a lot here and still like to come around.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Real libertarians do support it or another variety of anarcho-libertarianism. The non-anarchists are wishy-washy moderates at best.
    Have you thought it through all the way?

    Here's a question. Do you believe your Individual rights are decided by Natural Law or do you believe that your Individual rights are decided for you piecemeal through economic justification for any particular right?

    Now that's only one thing.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Impartial_Truth View Post
    In an environment of anarchy, I suspect most people will form into groups based on race. They will begin talking and the best and brightest of the group will lead them into forming an organized society. People want some form of collectivism, even if its minimal.

    I believe in ethno-nationalism managed according to libertarian principles of a neutral foreign policy, gold standard, free markets, and civil liberties. People of the same race naturally form a common culture. I believe race is the starting point, not the individual. The fundamental purpose of government is to protect the race. All world historical events are nothing more than the expression of self preservation of the races, for better or worse.
    Race is just a coincidence, Culture is what matters, those of the same race but with different cultures can't coexist, those of different races who assimilate into the same culture can.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    There's a few different forms of anarcho-capitalism, btw. Does the OP know this?

  16. #14
    No I don't believe so. Not every transaction that goes wrong needs to be solved in a gun fight.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikezelot View Post
    No I don't believe so. Not every transaction that goes wrong needs to be solved in a gun fight.
    No, you'd have private police and private courts, so just pay the police and the judge to see it your way.

    Hopefully the other guy doesn't have his own private police and court. Otherwise you're gonna have to send your private army over to his house to enforce your private judges ruling.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 07:34 PM.

  18. #16
    lol
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-17-2017 at 05:22 AM.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Impartial_Truth View Post
    In an environment of anarchy, I suspect most people will form into groups based on race. They will begin talking and the best and brightest of the group will lead them into forming an organized society. People want some form of collectivism, even if its minimal.
    Okay. But what if the best and brightest one is also the most totalitarian ahole outta the bunch? Now he's gonna come take your property and wealth at gunpoint in order to support his socialist program.

    I believe in ethno-nationalism managed according to libertarian principles of a neutral foreign policy, gold standard, free markets, and civil liberties. People of the same race naturally form a common culture. I believe race is the starting point, not the individual. The fundamental purpose of government is to protect the race. All world historical events are nothing more than the expression of self preservation of the races, for better or worse.
    What's ethno-nationalism? And how are The Individual's rights protected in an ethno-nationalist system? Meaning his right to property, his right to his wealth, his right to Life and Liberty, his right of economic liberty, bla bla bla and all of that...

    By default it seems like an ethno-nationalist system wouldn't recogize the Individual as an Individual. Which is patently anti-libertarian.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 08:06 PM.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    No, you'd have private police and private courts, so just pay the police and the judge to see it your way.

    Hopefully the other guy doesn't have his own private police and court. Otherwise you're gonna have to send your private army over to his house to enforce your private judges ruling.
    You don't need to understand how the market will provide a service to have faith in it's ability to provide that service. I don't know how service providers will provide running water, electricity, and sewage disposal to consumers but I have faith that some individuals do and that they will use their wisdom on these subjects to build a better life for themselves and their family.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    You don't need to understand how the market will provide a service to have faith in it's ability to provide that service. I don't know how service providers will provide running water, electricity, and sewage disposal to consumers but I have faith that some individuals do and that they will use their wisdom on these subjects to build a better life for themselves and their family.
    There's a little more involved than mere services.

    Have you thought it through all the way? Did you read my post to HB?

    More importantly, did you read post #3?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 09:04 PM.

  23. #20
    And, yes, you do need to know how the market will work. I'd be paying a fee, right?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 09:03 PM.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    There's a little more involved than mere services.

    Have you thought it through all the way? Did you read my post to HB?

    More importantly, did you read post #3?
    See my post above for a response to post #3.



    Why are you only worried about poor Americans not being able to secure defense? Surely poor people in other countries need defense too and can't afford it?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    And, yes, you do need to know how the market will work. I'd be paying a fee, right?
    Go ask a visionary in the defense field.

  26. #23
    As a matter of fact, P3ter_Griffin, in an anarcho-capitalist system, would there be a single moral code binding all people? If so, then what would that single moral code be?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 09:15 PM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    As a matter of fact, P3ter_Griffin, in an anarcho-capitalis system, would there be a single moral code binding all people? If so, then what would that single moral code it be?
    Have a good night.



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  29. #25
    P3ter_Griffin, I just saw your responses. I don't think you're looking to have functional debate.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by P3ter_Griffin View Post
    Have a good night.
    Thank you, P3ter_Griffin.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by uncharted View Post
    Should libertarians support anarcho-capitalism?
    In short, no.

    A free market in security (anarcho-capitalism) would be superior to a security monopoly (a state).

    The problem is that a free market in security cannot actually exist.

    Market analysis begins with the assumption that property rights are respected: e.g. statements like "to profit, one must sell something that people want" is true only if theft isn't a viable alternative. Anarcho-capitalists just assume that the absence of the state means the presence of a free market for security: i.e. that there would be no opportunities to profit by criminal means (or that people would voluntarily abstain from exploiting those opportunities out of respect for libertarian ideals). This is wishful thinking.

    The reality is that, if the state were abolished, the people with the guns would not form private defense agencies and peacefully compete for willing customers. Rather, they would use their guns to steal what they wanted, because that's more profitable. Then they would war with one another over who gets to steal from which area, and ultimately coalesce into new states (as has occurred throughout history upon the collapse of a state).

    Anarcho-capitalists might object that a small minority of violent people could not successfully rule the peaceful majority, but they would be arguing against the overwhelming empirical evidence to the contrary. In the end, anarcho-capitalism has much in common with utopian communism, in that it too requires a New Man to make the scheme plausible.

    Libertarians should abandon anarchism, accept the inevitability of the state, and focus on creating a more liberal state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is a fantasy designed to make our side sound stupid and dangerous.
    It wasn't designed to do so, but that's often its effect, yes.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It wasn't designed to do so, but that's often its effect, yes.
    I believe it was designed to do so as a controlled opposition project.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I believe it was designed to do so as a controlled opposition project.
    I believe that's absurd.

    P.S. The political opponents of libertarianism do sometimes paint all libertarians as anarcho-capitalists, and of the most radical/unhinged variety, for obvious reasons, but to suggest that anarcho-capitalism was created for this purpose would be to implicate Rothbard in an anti-libertarian conspiracy, which would be absurd. Anarcho-capitalism was a genuine, albeit misguided, attempt to extend classical liberalism to its logical conclusion.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-17-2017 at 01:12 AM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Libertarians should abandon anarchism, accept the inevitability of the state, and focus on creating a more liberal state.

    This. Rev wins the thread. A true libertarian will never promote anarchism anyway.

    For the casual passer-by, he means classical liberalism. Meaning you're not going to end the state, but separate it. Separation of economy and state, separation of free speech and state, separation of property from state, and so forth.

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