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Thread: 97 Million Full-Time Workers Are Now Living Paycheck to Paycheck

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Well that point my be relevant in a freed market, but alas we don't live in one. Prices will forever go up with an inflationary monetary system.
    This description is far from complete.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That is almost 80% of the labor force.
    So 1 in 10 americans are not hand to mouth ? Thats third world numbers . We look a little fat for that ......

  4. #33

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    easy credit tends to raise obesity rates. . .

    I think paycheck to paycheck we passed long while back. . . maybe credit card to credit card more common nowadays

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    So 1 in 10 americans are not hand to mouth ? Thats third world numbers . We look a little fat for that ......
    Paycheck to paycheck is not necessarily the same as "hand to mouth". Hand to mouth means making barely enough to get necessities. Paycheck to paycheck means they don't save which can include that they spend everything on wants. One could live paycheck to paycheck and have two cars, a TV in every room, etc. Most Americans are a very long ways from Third World living conditions.

    https://www.becomingminimalist.com/clutter-stats/

    1. There are 300,000 items in the average American home (LA Times).

    2. The average size of the American home has nearly tripled in size over the past 50 years (NPR).

    3. And still, 1 out of every 10 Americans rent offsite storage—the fastest growing segment of the commercial real estate industry over the past four decades. (New York Times Magazine).

    4. While 25% of people with two-car garages don’t have room to park cars inside them and 32% only have room for one vehicle. (U.S. Department of Energy).

    5. The United States has upward of 50,000 storage facilities, more than five times the number of Starbucks. Currently, there is 7.3 square feet of self storage space for every man, woman and child in the nation. Thus, it is physically possible that every American could stand—all at the same time—under the total canopy of self storage roofing (SSA).

    6. British research found that the average 10-year-old owns 238 toys but plays with just 12 daily (The Telegraph).

    7. 3.1% of the world’s children live in America, but they own 40% of the toys consumed globally (UCLA).

    8. The average American woman owns 30 outfits—one for every day of the month. In 1930, that figure was nine (Forbes).

    9. The average American family spends $1,700 on clothes annually (Forbes).

    10. While the average American throws away 65 pounds of clothing per year (Huffington Post).

    11. Nearly half of American households don’t save any money (Business Insider).

    12. But our homes have more television sets than people. And those television sets are turned on for more than a third of the day—eight hours, 14 minutes (USA Today).

    13. Some reports indicate we consume twice as many material goods today as we did 50 years ago (The Story of Stuff).

    14. Currently, the 12 percent of the world’s population that lives in North America and Western Europe account for 60 percent of private consumption spending, while the one-third living in South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa accounts for only 3.2 percent (Worldwatch Institute).

    15. Americans donate 1.9% of their income to charitable causes (NCCS/IRS). While 6 billion people worldwide live on less than $13,000/year (National Geographic).

    16. Americans spend more on shoes, jewelry, and watches ($100 billion) than on higher education (Psychology Today).

    17. Shopping malls outnumber high schools. And 93% of teenage girls rank shopping as their favorite pastime (Affluenza).

    18. Women will spend more than eight years of their lives shopping (The Daily Mail).

    19. Over the course of our lifetime, we will spend a total of 3,680 hours or 153 days searching for misplaced items.The research found we lose up to nine items every day—or 198,743 in a lifetime. Phones, keys, sunglasses, and paperwork top the list (The Daily Mail).

    20. Americans spend $1.2 trillion annually on nonessential goods—in other words, items they do not need (The Wall Street Journal).

    21. The $8 billion home organization industry has more than doubled in size since the early 2000’s—growing at a staggering rate of 10% each year (Uppercase).
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-16-2017 at 12:02 PM.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to. This post may include statements I don't personally agree with.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Paycheck to paycheck is not necessarily the same as "hand to mouth". Hand to mouth means making barely enough to get necessities. Paycheck to paycheck means they don't save which can include that they spend everything on wants. One could live paycheck to paycheck and have two cars, a TV in every room, etc. Most Americans are a very long ways from Third World living conditions.

    https://www.becomingminimalist.com/clutter-stats/
    Well , I clean out my 1 1/2 car garage every winter so the Mrs can park in there if it is to snow ( I use the other half for a tool shop ) , but she never does and just puts more overflow in there from her sewing shop .I have spent more on watches than higher education . My clothing budget is probably less than 50 per yr .

  7. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Paycheck to paycheck is not necessarily the same as "hand to mouth". Hand to mouth means making barely enough to get necessities. Paycheck to paycheck means they don't save which can include that they spend everything on wants. One could live paycheck to paycheck and have two cars, a TV in every room, etc. Most Americans are a very long ways from Third World living conditions.

    https://www.becomingminimalist.com/clutter-stats/
    Becomingminimalist- like I said, they want is to live in tiny boxes. Zippy's here to remind us all of our privilege.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  8. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Becomingminimalist- like I said, they want is to live in tiny boxes. Zippy's here to remind us all of our privilege.
    Just saying that not having money left at the month does not necessarily mean you are living like a Third World citizen. That just happened to be a random source I found showing just some of the junk we spend our money on and then wonder where all the money went.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-16-2017 at 12:28 PM.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to. This post may include statements I don't personally agree with.

  9. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    You have no evidence that it is not true. I have seen it first hand during the last housing bubble. Chinese H1-Bs bragging about how many houses they had accumulated via no money down loans. When it burst, they just went back to China.

    And yes, housing being treated like a commodity and speculation driving prices through the roof is bad for a community. Money spent on on oversized mortgages can not be spent in any other part of the economy. The point of this thread is that many people live paycheck to paycheck, and huge mortgages and high rents are some of the reasons.
    For many foreign-born individuals living in the United States, owning a home is one of the cornerstones of the American dream. But there’s a conception among some non-U.S. citizens that there’s no way they can obtain a mortgage, thus creating a huge barrier to that goal. In fact, the National Association of Realtors estimates that 60% of homes purchased by international buyers were all-cash transactions, as opposed to just one-third of domestic sales.

    Certainly, buying a home can present certain challenges if you’re not a citizen. But the reality is that many lenders are willing to extend credit to non-citizens – sometimes without a credit history in the United States. Non-citizens can even qualify for government-insured mortgages, which have the advantage of requiring low down payments.

    One point to keep in mind is that the requirements for getting a home loan depend in large part on one’s residency status. Most borrowers tend to fall within one of the following groups:

    Permanent residents with a green card (Form I-551)
    Non-permanent residents with a valid work visa (E1, E2, H1B, H2A, H2B, H3, L1 and G1-G4)
    “Foreign nationals,” whose primary residence is not in the U.S.

    Generally, it’s much easier to get a loan if you fall into one of the first two categories. That’s because mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – which buy the majority of home loans on the secondary market – have pretty much the same guidelines for green card and work visa holders as anyone else. The main caveat is that the lender has to verify the legal residency of the applicant. (See Getting A U.S. Visa For Entrepreneurs & Investors for some routes to legal residency.)

    However, foreign nationals don’t conform to Fannie or Freddie standards, so lenders have to keep these loans on their own books. Because the bank assumes more risk this way, it’s more likely to require a substantial down payment.

    Keep in mind that the Federal Housing Administration, which has relatively low credit score requirements and insists on just 3.5% down, is another option for non-U.S. citizens. It offers the same loan terms as it does to other buyers, provided the borrower shows proof of permanent residency in the U.S. (see Understanding FHA Loans).

    If you’re a non-permanent resident seeking an FHA mortgage, you have to use the home as a primary residence and supply a valid Social Security number and Employment Authorization Document. This means that the agency does not extend mortgages to non-residents just planning to use the home occasionally.
    Read more: Getting a Mortgage for Non U.S. Citizens | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/articles...#ixzz4sqv6UUkY
    Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

    Well, it seems like it was a 1 in a million event that your Chinese H1b visa friends were able to qualify for no money down mortgages to buy up all those houses. And I know they say a foreigner can easily get federally insured mortgages if you have a green card but my dad who had a green card at the time (before it was taken away he was out of the country for too long) was rejected by all the banks we visited when he tried to get a mortgage for just one vacation house in the states. He had a good paying job, fantastic credit but since he wasn't a citizen and wasn't living in the country at the time, he couldn't get one. This was around the peak of the housing bubble in 2005/2006 period.

    Essentially what I am trying to say is that your anecdotal story about your Chinese friends is the rare exception and not the rule.

    I generally think your criticism of foreign investment comes from poor understanding of the market and economics. Think of it this way, lets just imagine the realistic worst case scenario happens and this Asian mortgage holder splits after his housing investment goes underwater. So, lets imagine he put in 10% down payment on the house, did some renovation on it and paid property taxes/monthly payment for 1 year and then left everything to the bank after the values dropped.

    In this scenario, the previous owner made out like bandit, the state govt coffers would be richer, even the bank depending on how much the house dropped in value may even make some money and lastly some perspective home buys might have to wait a bit for a correction to buy their new home. The point is that the society in aggregate has more money because of the foreigners investment than without the investment.

    Also, this idea that the idle money is bad for business is liberal thinking. Lets just imagine that the previous owner who got all that money he/she got from the sale put it all under his/her bed and left it there. No scratch that, lets imagine he burned all the money in the fire place, that would just mean that all the other money in circulation would just have a little bit more value to it i.e everyone with a dollar just got richer. That also means that savers would be getting a little bit higher interest rates on their bank deposits.

    People living pay cheque to pay cheque has nothing to do with foreigners investing in the US's economy.
    Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling…makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another, I’d rather not choose at all. Geralt of Rivia

    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.

  10. #39

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    Many Chinese were paying cash. Now the cash is getting hard for them to get ahold of. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-short-on-cash

    China’s Army of Global Homebuyers Is Suddenly Short on Cash


    China’s escalating crackdown on capital outflows is sending shudders through property markets around the world.

    In London, Chinese citizens who clamored to purchase flats at the city’s tallest apartment tower three months ago are now struggling to transfer their down payments. In Silicon Valley, Keller Williams Realty says inquiries from China have slumped since the start of the year. And in Sydney, developers are facing “big problems” as Chinese buyers pull back, according to consultancy firm Basis Point.

    “Everything changed’’ as it became more difficult to send money offshore, said Coco Tan, a broker associate at Keller Williams in Cupertino, California.

    Less than a month after China announced fresh curbs on overseas payments, anecdotal reports from realtors, homeowners and developers suggest the restrictions are already weighing on the world’s biggest real estate buying spree. While no one expects Chinese demand to disappear anytime soon, the clampdown is deterring first-time buyers who lack offshore assets and the expertise to skirt tighter capital controls.

    “If it’s too difficult, I’m out,’’ said Mr. Zheng, 66, a retired civil servant in Shanghai who declined to give his first name to avoid attracting regulatory scrutiny. He may abandon a 2.4 million yuan ($348,903) home purchase in western Melbourne, even after shelling out a 300,000 yuan deposit last August. He’s due to make another big payment next month.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to. This post may include statements I don't personally agree with.

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Lets just imagine that the previous owner who got all that money he/she got from the sale put it all under his/her bed and left it there. No scratch that, lets imagine he burned all the money in the fire place, that would just mean that all the other money in circulation would just have a little bit more value to it i.e everyone with a dollar just got richer. That also means that savers would be getting a little bit higher interest rates on their bank deposits.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    So 1 in 10 americans are not hand to mouth ? Thats third world numbers . We look a little fat for that ......
    I think that has to do with the quality of the food that people can afford, as well as the type of jobs. So many of our manufacturing jobs have gone overseas, and we are left with a lot less physical jobs, which I think also contributes to our overall fatness. And yes, other factors involved too, like time to exercise, motivation, etc.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Read more: Getting a Mortgage for Non U.S. Citizens | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/articles...#ixzz4sqv6UUkY
    Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook

    Well, it seems like it was a 1 in a million event that your Chinese H1b visa friends were able to qualify for no money down mortgages to buy up all those houses. And I know they say a foreigner can easily get federally insured mortgages if you have a green card but my dad who had a green card at the time (before it was taken away he was out of the country for too long) was rejected by all the banks we visited when he tried to get a mortgage for just one vacation house in the states. He had a good paying job, fantastic credit but since he wasn't a citizen and wasn't living in the country at the time, he couldn't get one. This was around the peak of the housing bubble in 2005/2006 period.

    Essentially what I am trying to say is that your anecdotal story about your Chinese friends is the rare exception and not the rule.
    You post an article that confirms everything I said about cash and mortgages, and then try to say it says the opposite.

    Foreigners can get loans:

    But the reality is that many lenders are willing to extend credit to non-citizens – sometimes without a credit history in the United States. Non-citizens can even qualify for government-insured mortgages, which have the advantage of requiring low down payments.
    Then you bold a part about FHA loans. Who said that the loans taken out for speculation were FHA loans? They weren't.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Many Chinese were paying cash. Now the cash is getting hard for them to get ahold of. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-short-on-cash
    THe article you posted doesn't imply they're paying cash. It implies they're taking out big mortgages.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    THe article you posted doesn't imply they're paying cash. It implies they're taking out big mortgages.
    Different article: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/21/chin...al-estate.html

    Hipsters, trust fund kids and tech executives are among those who share the blame for driving up Brooklyn prices. But like many foreign real estate investors, home buyers from China tend to spend more and pay in cash. A 2016 report from the National Association of Realtors indicates that foreign buyers tend, on average, to purchase properties with a median price that is $50,000 more than the average U.S. home sale.

    "Cash is still king," Colegrove said.
    One reason?

    That's in large part thanks to the EB-5 federal visa program: Foreign investors who sink $500,000 into American residential or commercial projects that create at least 10 jobs become eligible for green cards for themselves, their spouse and their unmarried children.

    Chinese extended families often pool their funds. When one family eventually receives a green card, they can then sponsor visas for subsequent relatives. Compared with the astronomical cost of real estate in major Chinese cities, Brooklyn can seem like a downright bargain. In urban China "$500,000 is not that much anymore," Dr. Kwong said.
    "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed yet." - William Gibson

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to. This post may include statements I don't personally agree with.

  16. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    I think that has to do with the quality of the food that people can afford, as well as the type of jobs. So many of our manufacturing jobs have gone overseas, and we are left with a lot less physical jobs, which I think also contributes to our overall fatness. And yes, other factors involved too, like time to exercise, motivation, etc.
    Thats true , poor people probably eat crappy . When I was a kid poor people and middle class people were skinny because they had to work hard .

  17. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Thats true , poor people probably eat crappy . When I was a kid poor people and middle class people were skinny because they had to work hard .
    Agreed. And over the last several thousand years, the standard of "sexy" has changed dramatically. Being skinny with washboard abs used to be a symbol of poverty while being fat was an indicator you could afford food, but that was way back prior to at least the turn of the previous century. Today, its the rich people who can afford both the time and the money for good quality food and exercise. The roles today of "sexy" and "healthy" are the exact opposite of what they were centuries ago.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Zippy 2.0
    No kidding.

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Just saying that not having money left at the month does not necessarily mean you are living like a Third World citizen. .
    Yet. Not having money left at the end of the month means you are likely going to face financial hardship in the very near future. It's only a matter of time until the Middle Class disappears, and it's hard to fall up.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

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