Trump, Schumer, Pelosi Consider Repealing Debt Ceiling Altogether

[r3volution 3.0]

President Trump and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) have agreed to pursue a deal that would permanently remove the requirement that Congress repeatedly raise the debt ceiling, three people familiar with the decision said. Trump and Schumer discussed the idea Wednesday during an Oval Office meeting. The two, along with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D–Calif.), agreed to work together over the next several months to try to finalize a plan, which would need to be approved by Congress. One of the people familiar described it as a “gentlemen’s agreement.” The three people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss details of the meeting.

...

On Thursday, Trump was asked by a reporter at the White House about abolishing the congressional process for raising the debt ceiling. He replied that "there are lots of good reasons to do that." "It could be discussed," Trump said. "For many years, people have been talking about getting rid of [the] debt ceiling altogether." He confirmed during the exchange with reporters at the White House that the issue was discussed during his meeting with congressional leaders on Wednesday.

...

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has suggested scrapping the existing debt-limit process and replacing it with one that automatically lifts the borrowing limit every time Congress appropriates future spending.

...

Many conservatives view regular debt-ceiling votes as an opportunity to drive their message that the country continues to rack up debt, which they consider a dangerous trend that could eventually damage the U.S. economy. The issue is also one of a handful of must-pass bills that Congress has at times used to win concessions on fiscal policy issues. Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) was one of several Senate conservatives who said abandoning that power would be misguided. "I think the debt limit should be used to try to bring to reform in Congress," Paul said Thursday. "I think the debt limit is a good vote to have."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.61b9d04730c5

[Dr.3D]

Wasn't Trump supposed to be a conservative?

[spudea]

On its face, it does seem really silly, congress passes a bill to spend money, then has to pass a separate bill to authorize the treasury to issue debt to cover the spending, meanwhile every politician constantly says we pay our bills, and the debt ceiling must be raised no matter what.

[EBounding]

"I love it! Trump is really sticking it to those RINOS! #ArtOfTheDeal"

This is what Trump people actually say--I'm not kidding.

[Madison320]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.61b9d04730c5

It really annoys me to read articles by "experts" who say the debt ceiling is a bad thing because it causes a crisis every time we hit it. What they fail to realize is that those crisis are miniscule compared to the ultimate crisis that the debt ceiling is designed to prevent. The true debt crisis is when we have too much debt, not when we fail to increase it.

Anyway it appears that they raised it officially. Now I can start watching the debt grow again, yay! It'll probably be about 300 billion a month. I'm guessing they can't borrow it all back at once without breaking the bond market.

[r3volution 3.0]

It really annoys me to read articles by "experts" who say the debt ceiling is a bad thing because it causes a crisis every time we hit it. What they fail to realize is that those crisis are miniscule compared to the ultimate crisis that the debt ceiling is designed to prevent. The true debt crisis is when we have too much debt, not when we fail to increase it.

It's a crisis every time a junkie runs out of smack.

[CaptUSA]

I mean, isn't it effectively repealed already? Right now, it's just a little government-mandated song and dance every once and awhile.

Gotta love Trump - he's just telling the people what government is doing anyway! Making it plainly obvious! What a guy!



(seriously, though. removal of the debt ceiling, regardless of how pointless the "ceiling" is, will just allow the government to spend without anyone questioning. it may be the final nail to pop the bubble.)

[Feeding the Abscess]

Has Krugman written anything on this, or has he been continuously masturbating for the last 48 hours?

[TheCount]

Wasn't Trump supposed to be a conservative?

No. Populists are not conservative.

[Dr.3D]

No. Populists are not conservative.

So the GOP is just the same as the Democrats. I don't know why they bother to run against each other.

[TheCount]

So the GOP is just the same as the Democrats. I don't know why they bother to run against each other.

They're both big government parties, just slightly different goals as to what all of our money should be spent on.

[phill4paul]

Do it. Really. I have become convinced that the only way change is gonna be affected is by government implosion.

[nikcers]

So the GOP is just the same as the Democrats. I don't know why they bother to run against each other.

They don't want competition.

[r3volution 3.0]

seriously, though. removal of the debt ceiling, regardless of how pointless the "ceiling" is, will just allow the government to spend without anyone questioning. it may be the final nail to pop the bubble.

Yup

Do it. Really. I have become convinced that the only way change is gonna be affected is by government implosion.

Government implosion, yes...

Catastrophic debt and inflation and chaos always works out well.

Just ask the citizens of Wiemar.

Things can't get worse...

[phill4paul]

Government implosion, yes...

Catastrophic debt and inflation and chaos always works out well.

Just ask the citizens of Wiemar.

Things can't get worse...

I'm at the point where it is "$#@!, or get off the pot." I've been an agorist going on eight years now. I honestly don't give a $#@!. Better sooner than later.

[Madison320]

I'm at the point where it is "$#@!, or get off the pot." I've been an agorist going on eight years now. I honestly don't give a $#@!. Better sooner than later.

I agree. I don't know if things will change for the better, but I know things will keep getting slowly worse until there's a crisis (and it'll be a currency crisis).

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm at the point where it is "$#@!, or get off the pot." I've been an agorist going on eight years now. I honestly don't give a $#@!. Better sooner than later.

Well, I think you might have a slightly naive view of what could happen.

[phill4paul]

Well, I think you might have a slightly naive view of what could happen.

na·ive
nīˈēv/Submit
adjective
(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.

Nope. I know exactly. Sorry, you can't seem to grasp that.

[r3volution 3.0]

na·ive
nīˈēv/Submit
adjective
(of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.

Nope. I know exactly. Sorry, you can't seem to grasp that.

That's fine.

[P3ter_Griffin]

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) was one of several Senate conservatives who said abandoning that power would be misguided. "I think the debt limit should be used to try to bring to reform in Congress," Paul said Thursday. "I think the debt limit is a good vote to have."

^^ Akin to giving away your ability to 'take your ball and go home'.

Do the laws of economics apply to monopoly? The US government's continued involvement domestically and foreign is important to many countries with their own central banks and with business who receive contracts with the US government. Letting us fall into despair would harm their own interests. In my mind the most likely pressure the government would receive from debt buyers would be pushing towards more centralized social services as a cost savings measure (government healthcare, food distribution, etc). How do these interested parties become 'victim' to the laws of economics/market forces?

[r3volution 3.0]

^^ Akin to giving away your ability to 'take your ball and go home'.

Do the laws of economics apply to monopoly? The US government's continued involvement domestically and foreign is important to many countries with their own central banks and with business who receive contracts with the US government. Letting us fall into despair would harm their own interests. In my mind the most likely pressure the government would receive from debt buyers would be pushing towards more centralized social services as a cost savings measure (government healthcare, food distribution, etc). How do these interested parties become 'victim' to the laws of economics/market forces?

Economics allows us to determine which policy choices are sensible.

But the government in D.C. does not care...

Their only concern is reelection.

....

in the short run an individual or a group of individuals can certainly further their own interests at the expense of their own and all other peoples' long-run interests. A society that is not prepared to thwart the attacks of such asocial and short-sighted aggressors is helpless

[nikcers]

Economics allows us to determine which policy choices are sensible.

But the government in D.C. does not care...

Their only concern is reelection.

....

I sort of wonder if this is why our country is so mentally ill, so many people live their lives doing whatever is most lucrative to them instead of what they like doing. I never noticed how its even engrained into our public sector. They are more motivated to maintain a paycheck then do their job right. It's something I just don't understand how people can let this $#@! show go on and our country crumble. They won't even budget the government so our economy is going to fail. I hope all of them get cancer, - spare Rand Paul and a few others but cancer for the rest of them.

[P3ter_Griffin]

Economics allows us to determine which policy choices are sensible.

But the government in D.C. does not care...

Their only concern is reelection.

....

But I'm saying though, is the idea that there is going to be a debt/currency crisis realistic? If money couldn't be debased then I would imagine that the laws of economics would apply, and poor policy would eventually lead to insolvency and the inability to continue to preform functions. It's accuracy I do not know, but I remember that the fed 'let' Lehman fail, not that they couldn't have overcome the market forces and saved it.

[nikcers]

But I'm saying though, is the idea that there is going to be a debt/currency crisis realistic? If money couldn't be debased then I would imagine that the laws of economics would apply, and poor policy would eventually lead to insolvency and the inability to continue to preform functions. It's accuracy I do not know, but I remember that the fed 'let' Lehman fail, not that they couldn't have overcome the market forces and saved it.

I dunno, what makes our currency valuable and what could threaten it? All it needs its competition, and lots of people would leave it. Are you going to war over fiat currency, are you going to war for the empire? Probably. The crunch is coming, and the writing is on the wall, happy 9/11 yall.

[r3volution 3.0]

I sort of wonder if this is why our country is so mentally ill, so many people live their lives doing whatever is most lucrative to them instead of what they like doing. I never noticed how its even engrained into our public sector. They are more motivated to maintain a paycheck then do their job right. It's something I just don't understand how people can let this $#@! show go on and our country crumble. They won't even budget the government so our economy is going to fail. I hope all of them get cancer, - spare Rand Paul and a few others but cancer for the rest of them.

Maybe letting our fate be determined by the majority isn't a good idea.

[Ender]

Maybe letting our fate be determined by the majority isn't a good idea.

Democracy: Two wolves & one lamb deciding what's for dinner.

[timosman]

They don't want competition.

The two party system creates a situation where there is no oxygen left in the room for anybody else while avoiding silly accusations of a monopoly. We can use those against North Korea.

[Anti Federalist]

Do it. Really. I have become convinced that the only way change is gonna be affected is by government implosion.

This.

$#@! it it, why not, having a "ceiling" that isn't a ceiling is pointless anyway.

Everybody knows it's all smoke and mirrors and bull$#@!: deals will get cut, debt will be incurred, and the ever $#@!ed Mundanes that foot the bill for this $#@! show of cum drunk sluts will get another reaming.

[Anti Federalist]

Maybe letting our fate be determined by the majority isn't a good idea.

So, importing tens of millions of people who consistently vote for and favor this out of control spending and metastatic growth of government, is not a good thing either?

[r3volution 3.0]

But I'm saying though, is the idea that there is going to be a debt/currency crisis realistic? If money couldn't be debased then I would imagine that the laws of economics would apply, and poor policy would eventually lead to insolvency and the inability to continue to preform functions. It's accuracy I do not know, but I remember that the fed 'let' Lehman fail, not that they couldn't have overcome the market forces and saved it.

If present trends continue, the cost of servicing the debt will eventually exceed what the state can extract from society.

At that point the state will have to either retrench or collapse.

This is just a matter of math.