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Thread: The Truth About Meat and Dairy

  1. #1

    Default The Truth About Meat and Dairy

    These industries will go away very quickly once 3d printed meat becomes available. There's already major companies working on a 3d printed food startup.



    "If you kill innocent, defenseless animals everyday, just because you like the taste, then go around pretending you're antiwar, you're only fooling yourself." -Eric Dubay
    ESTJ
    The ESTJ is generally very opinionated, and likes to appear authoritative and in charge. They may temper this tendency when around other ESTJs whom they value. Around other types, this tendency may cause them to be abrupt and direct, to the point where they inadvertantly step on people's toes.



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  3. #2

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    I don't like Eric Dubay, but I wholeheartedly agree with him on this topic. Cutting out all animal products was definitely one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life, and I'm so happy to see this movement growing so fast. You can't hide truth for very long, it eventually comes out.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  4. #3

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    Veganism rots your brain:

    The fact is: The Earth is flat and motionless. That is all.

    And that is the revelation that will finally break the matrix. You have been taught from the earliest ages that you live on a spinning ball. That NASA has sent men to the Moon, that satellites are hovering in perpetual orbit overhead, that an International Space Station contains astronauts free-floating above us, that the Earth is a ball that tilts, wobbles, spins on its axis and revolves around the Sun, and that all these and you are the result of a Big Bang cosmogenic explosion 14 billion years ago which created everything out of nothing. Yet nothing could be farther from the truth.

    The truth is simple and easily proven. You can see for yourself the horizon is always flat and you can measure using sextants, theodolites, and lasers to prove the Earth and its massive oceans have absolutely no curvature whatsoever. You can feel for yourself that the Earth beneath you is motionless and you can measure as Michelson, Morley, Gale, Sagnac, Airy and other scientists have to prove that the Earth is completely motionless. That’s right. It has been long proven by several scientific experiments, even in the elitist “peer-reviewed journals” you critics constantly harp on about, that the Earth is a stationary plane. The reason you haven’t heard about it before is because the media is controlled by the same people who created this deception. The only time you have ever heard a “Flat Earther” mentioned in the media, it was in jest or ridicule. The only thing you have ever heard about “Flat Earth” is that its adherents are ignorant idiots. Sorry to burst your space bubble, but if you still think you’re living on a spinning ball in 2016, you my friend, are the ignorant one. - Eric Doubay
    http://www.ericdubay.com/?tag=flat-earth

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Casey View Post
    These industries will go away very quickly once 3d printed meat becomes available. There's already major companies working on a 3d printed food startup.
    Replicators and Soylent Green.

    Yay!

    Can't wait.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Replicators and Soylent Green.

    Yay!

    Can't wait.
    Just used the last of a smoked pork butt in a Brunswick stew tonight. I'll not be having Soylent Green, matey!
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  7. #6

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    A vegan, a flat-earther, and a crossfitter walk into a bar. Which one starts bragging that they are 'holier than thou' first? Trick question, they are all the same douchebag.

  8. #7

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    "If you kill innocent, defenseless animals everyday, just because you like the taste, then go around pretending you're antiwar, you're only fooling yourself." -Eric Dubay
    Are we eating Iraqis?
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  9. #8

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    Bill Gates invests in veggie burger that ‘bleeds’ like beef to feed the masses and save the planet

    BY MONICA NICKELSBURG on August 1, 2017 at 8:41 am

    Bill Gates became the world’s richest man by tackling seemingly impossible problems — so it should come as no surprise that he believes in a startup whose goal is to create the impossible.

    In this case, the audacious goal isn’t getting a computer in every home, it’s creating an environmentally responsible meat substitute that’s indistinguishable from the real thing. Gates is participating in a $75 million fundraising round for Impossible Foods, a Redwood City, Calif.-based startup that makes meat from plants. It’s the third fundraising round Gates has participated in.

    The company’s flagship product, the Impossible Burger is made from plant-based ingredients, including “soy leghemoglobin.” That key component of the Impossible Burger is said to mimic heme (a compound in hemoglobin), the iron-containing molecule that carries oxygen in blood and is ubiquitous in animal muscle.



    So why is Bill Gates investing in mock meats? Impossible Foods says its products can feed the masses “with a much smaller environmental footprint than meat from animals.”

    It’s one of many startups developing meat alternatives if/when livestock agriculture becomes too inefficient to feed the estimated 9.7 billion people who will be living on this planet by 2050.

    Reducing global hunger is an explicit goal of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

    “In an era of increasingly scarce resources and growing impact of climate change, we encourage farmers to embrace and adopt sustainable practices that help them grow more with less land, water, fertilizer, and other costly inputs while preserving natural resources for future generations,” the Gates Foundation website reads.

    Impossible Foods says its flagship burger uses 75 percent less water, generates 87 percent fewer greenhouse gasses, and requires about 95 percent less land than ground beef from conventionally raised cows. The company won a patent for its leghemoglobin technology earlier this month.

    The Impossible Burger is said to be identical to real beef in taste and texture. When cooked, it even “bleeds” and sizzles like ground beef. It is being served at a handful of restaurants in New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco.

    The company is competing in a space crowded with other startups eager to find an alternative to traditional agriculture. Gates is also an investor in Beyond Meat, which is distributing its own plant-based burgers in hundreds of U.S. grocery stores.
    https://www.geekwire.com/2017/bill-g...s-save-planet/


    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  10. #9

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    So much hate.

    I do understand, though. People are OK with vegetarians or those who go 'plant-based' for health reasons, because they typically don't challenge people to think about what they're doing, from an ethical standpoint. They don't challenge the status quo...unlike vegans.

    No one likes to be told that they're doing something that is wrong, or even indirectly supporting something unethical. Especially if the person communicating that message is rude and aggressive about it.

    So, I hear ya.

    Still, I think it's sad to see so much hatred and mockery aimed at people who for the most part simply want to promote mercy for animals, and expose the truly barbaric and horrific things that go on everyday in the animal industries.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  11. #10

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    This is what is douchey:

    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  12. #11

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    And this:

    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  13. #12

    Default

    And this.

    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    So much hate.

    I do understand, though. People are OK with vegetarians or those who go 'plant-based' for health reasons, because they typically don't challenge people to think about what they're doing, from an ethical standpoint. They don't challenge the status quo...unlike vegans.

    No one likes to be told that they're doing something that is wrong, or even indirectly supporting something unethical. Especially if the person communicating that message is rude and aggressive about it.

    So, I hear ya.

    Still, I think it's sad to see so much hatred and mockery aimed at people who for the most part simply want to promote mercy for animals, and expose the truly barbaric and horrific things that go on everyday in the animal industries.
    I'm with ya. Not on the whole no meat thing, but with the douchery. The truth is, I suppose you have to expect a backlash if you're going to preach to people that what they're doing is wrong.

    Especially, since human beings are, as a species, omnivores. I think it's great you've chosen to stand on one leg your whole life because of your principles. It takes amazing will power and mental fortitude. I've tried a few times, but always come back to eating animals. I just can't fight my nature like that forever. I don't think anyone in here likes factory farms though. In fact, from a purely utilitarian standpoint, if we want our food to be treated ethically, it makes more sense to encourage the ethically-based market than to take ourselves out of it entirely.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    So much hate.

    I do understand, though. People are OK with vegetarians or those who go 'plant-based' for health reasons, because they typically don't challenge people to think about what they're doing, from an ethical standpoint. They don't challenge the status quo...unlike vegans.

    No one likes to be told that they're doing something that is wrong, or even indirectly supporting something unethical. Especially if the person communicating that message is rude and aggressive about it.

    So, I hear ya.

    Still, I think it's sad to see so much hatred and mockery aimed at people who for the most part simply want to promote mercy for animals, and expose the truly barbaric and horrific things that go on everyday in the animal industries.
    The OP attacked meat generally instead of the industry-hence the replies that it incited. Wrong approach. I actually agree with you about the industry and I'm not a vegan. However, I have found that since my lenten fast I do fine on seafood and veggie/seed/nut protein.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 09-08-2017 at 06:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    This is what is douchey:

    But, it's not the end all. Not EVERY producer acts in this manner. We're not going to see eye to eye. I'm for ethical treatment of animals that are raised for the table, but I have no problem knowing they were raised for the table. I'd prefer that this country wasn't so populated that hunting for meat is impossible in some locations. I'd have loved to participate in a buffalo hunt and all the blessings the total animal could provide me. But humans were created omnivores. I have no problem being what I was created for. No different than I have no problem that I was created as a white cis-male.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I'm with ya. Not on the whole no meat thing, but with the douchery. The truth is, I suppose you have to expect a backlash if you're going to preach to people that what they're doing is wrong.

    Especially, since human beings are, as a species, omnivores. I think it's great you've chosen to stand on one leg your whole life because of your principles. It takes amazing will power and mental fortitude. I've tried a few times, but always come back to eating animals. I just can't fight my nature like that forever. I don't think anyone in here likes factory farms though. In fact, from a purely utilitarian standpoint, if we want our food to be treated ethically, it makes more sense to encourage the ethically-based market than to take ourselves out of it entirely.
    Thank you for replying in such a civil way. Yeah, I do expect a backlash… It's similar to being a Christian who shares the gospel with others, backlash comes with the territory.

    I disagree though, that we were designed to be omnivores. I agree that we're omnivores, in a practical sense. Obviously the majority of people in this world eat meat as well as plant foods. But I do not believe we were designed that way. I can quote Genesis 1:29, but in addition to that we have very different features than carnivores or omnivores including a much longer intestinal tract, the way our jaws are built, flattened molars, etc.

    Also, if you put a toddler in a crib with a rabbit and an apple, the child's nature is to play with the rabbit and to eat the apple. Not to use a cliché quote, but if it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. (And if he starts biting into the rabbit, you'd think you have a demon baby on your hands) So eating animals is something that we're taught, it's a custom… I do not believe it is the way we were designed.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Thank you for replying in such a civil way. Yeah, I do expect a backlash… It's similar to being a Christian who shares the gospel with others, backlash comes with the territory.

    I disagree though, that we were designed to be omnivores. I agree that we're omnivores, in a practical sense. Obviously the majority of people in this world eat meat as well as plant foods. But I do not believe we were designed that way. I can quote Genesis 1:29, but in addition to that we have very different features than carnivores or omnivores including a much longer intestinal tract, the way our jaws are built, flattened molars, etc.
    I would quote back to you the dietary laws in Leviticus 11.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Also, if you put a toddler in a crib with a rabbit and an apple, the child's nature is to play with the rabbit and to eat the apple. Not to use a cliché quote, but if it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car. (And if he starts biting into the rabbit, you'd think you have a demon baby on your hands) So eating animals is something that we're taught, it's a custom… I do not believe it is the way we were designed.
    Toddlers normally don't eat whole apples. They typically eat sliced apples or applesauce in my experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    The OP attacked meat generally instead of the industry-hence the replies that it incited. Wrong approach. I actually agree with you about the industry and I'm not a vegan. However, I have found that since my lenten fast I do fine on seafood and veggie/seed/nut protein.
    Do you mean the guy in the video? Or the guy who posted this thread? I'm glad that you're doing better on your new diet. I really loved seafood, so I went pescetarian first, and then a few months later, I decided it would be better to not partake in any animal products. Long story, but anyway… It's always good to eat healthier, and eating less meat in general is a good thing imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    But, it's not the end all. Not EVERY producer acts in this manner. We're not going to see eye to eye. I'm for ethical treatment of animals that are raised for the table, but I have no problem knowing they were raised for the table. I'd prefer that this country wasn't so populated that hunting for meat is impossible in some locations. I'd have loved to participate in a buffalo hunt and all the blessings the total animal could provide me. But humans were created omnivores. I have no problem being what I was created for. No different than I have no problem that I was created as a white cis-male.
    It may be true that not every producer acts in that manner, however I was very disappointed to learn that words like "humanely–treated", free range, etc. really mean next to nothing. It's just a way for the meat and dairy industries to continue, and for people to not feel guilty about it.

    I wasn't planning on getting into a debate about this… But is there ever a humane way way to kill a sentient (and innocent) animal who doesn't want to die? By definition, the word humane means 'characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy '.... So is taking the life of an animal who wants to live, just to satisfy one's taste buds, ever an act of compassion? In 99% of cases, I would say no.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    I would quote back to you the dietary laws in Leviticus 11.
    That came later, so I think it comes down to choosing between God's perfect will, or God's permissive will.

    Toddlers normally don't eat whole apples. They typically eat sliced apples or applesauce in my experience.
    Right, but you know what I meant. It would instinctively understand that one is food and the other is...well, in the child's eyes, a friend.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    … But is there ever a humane way way to kill a sentient (and innocent) animal who doesn't want to die? By definition, the word humane means 'characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy '.... So is taking the life of an animal who wants to live, just to satisfy one's taste buds, ever an act of compassion? In 99% of cases, I would say no.
    Might as well ask a wolf pack, a lion or a shark. We eat to live. From the tallest to the smallest. It is natural. Are plants sentient? If not, how are you sure?
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Might as well ask a wolf pack, a lion or a shark. We eat to live. From the tallest to the smallest. It is natural. Are plants sentient? If not, how are you sure?
    Animals in the wild do a lot of things that obviously humans would never do… So as humans, wouldn't you agree that we should rise above our carnal nature and try to do what is right, as opposed to only what we want to do? We don't have to eat animals to live. It's unnecessary for most people, so it really just comes down to traditional/ habit/ taste.

    Plants do not have a brain or central nervous system. Plants were meant to be eaten (Genesis 1:29–30). I'm sure of that because it's obvious and intuitive that God gave us fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds and other plant-based foods to eat… That is why they are here on this earth.

    I do not believe that God created sentient beings with a strong desire to live and with emotions and the ability to feel pain and love and joy and companionship… only to be treated horribly and then eaten. In fact, don't quote me on this, but it's very likely that the origin of meat eating was demonic. But that's getting into a whole other topic.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    So much hate.

    I do understand, though. People are OK with vegetarians or those who go 'plant-based' for health reasons, because they typically don't challenge people to think about what they're doing, from an ethical standpoint. They don't challenge the status quo...unlike vegans.

    No one likes to be told that they're doing something that is wrong, or even indirectly supporting something unethical. Especially if the person communicating that message is rude and aggressive about it.

    So, I hear ya.

    Still, I think it's sad to see so much hatred and mockery aimed at people who for the most part simply want to promote mercy for animals, and expose the truly barbaric and horrific things that go on everyday in the animal industries.
    No, people don't like vegans because they think they are better than people that eat meat over what is essentially a difference of opinion. I disagree with vegans and don't give a crap that what they eat, but for some reason they think it is their business to be all up in mine.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    No, people don't like vegans because they think they are better than people that eat meat over what is essentially a difference of opinion. I disagree with vegans and don't give a crap that what they eat, but for some reason they think it is their business to be all up in mine.
    I like vegans, and eating them never seemed to cause them any pain, quite the opposite actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You do know that you are a moron right?

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just for the record, 99% of the time I say "In my country........" I am actually messing with you people because I know you guys have absolutely no idea what happens in my country.

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of apportionment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    No, people don't like vegans because they think they are better than people that eat meat over what is essentially a difference of opinion. I disagree with vegans and don't give a crap that what they eat, but for some reason they think it is their business to be all up in mine.
    I don't think all vegans are that way, but even if that was true, it's illogical to dismiss a claim based on the messenger.

    The reason this topic is so controversial is because it's an ethical debate. This probably won't go over well, but I disagree that it's simply a matter of opinion. Do you believe that morals/ethics are subjective?
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Animals in the wild do a lot of things that obviously humans would never do… So as humans, wouldn't you agree that we should rise above our carnal nature and try to do what is right, as opposed to only what we want to do? We don't have to eat animals to live. It's unnecessary for most people, so it really just comes down to traditional/ habit/ taste.

    Plants do not have a brain or central nervous system. Plants were meant to be eaten (Genesis 1:29–30). I'm sure of that because it's obvious and intuitive that God gave us fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds and other plant-based foods to eat… That is why they are here on this earth.

    I do not believe that God created sentient beings with a strong desire to live and with emotions and the ability to feel pain and love and joy and companionship… only to be treated horribly and then eaten. In fact, don't quote me on this, but it's very likely that the origin of meat eating was demonic. But that's getting into a whole other topic.
    Well, I guess we will never agree with each other on this. I'm glad you have found a path. Mine is another.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Well, I guess we will never agree with each other on this. I'm glad you have found a path. Mine is another.
    Thank you for being civil. I just have to say…never say never. I distinctly remember on a number of occasions saying "I could never be a vegetarian or vegan." This pretty much sums it up:


    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Thank you for being civil. I just have to say…never say never. I distinctly remember on a number of occasions saying "I could never be a vegetarian or vegan." This pretty much sums it up:
    You seem to assume, that in my 52 yrs. on this planet, that I have never given it a shot.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    You seem to assume, that in my 52 yrs. on this planet, that I have never given it a shot.
    If you don't mind me asking, did you give it a shot for health reasons? Because what I have noticed is that many people who try it for health reasons end up going back to their normal diet. But when someone does it for ethical reasons, it's a whole different thing. It's hard to put it into words, and some of you won't like hearing this, but it's almost like an awakening... a life-changing thing that happens and you can't go back to thinking of meat in the same way.
    Last edited by lilymc; 09-08-2017 at 08:18 PM.
    "To inflict cruelties on defenseless creatures, or condone such acts, is to abuse one of the cardinal tenets of a civilized society - reverence for life."
    – Jon Evans

    @livemercifully

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Thank you for being civil. I just have to say…never say never. I distinctly remember on a number of occasions saying "I could never be a vegetarian or vegan." This pretty much sums it up:


    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, did you give it a shot for health reasons? Because what I have noticed is that many people who try it for health reasons end up going back to their normal diet. But when someone does it for ethical reasons, it's a whole different thing. It's hard to put it into words, and some of you won't like hearing this, but it's almost like an awakening... a life-changing thing that happens and you can't go back to thinking of meat in the same way.
    So, I once did a stint with fruitarianism. No taking of life whatsoever. Eating only what nature provided as a means of reproduction. (Some plants create fruit to attract other animals to help spread their seed.) It was as pure from a philosophical point as I could get.

    I'm glad I did it because it provided me some enlightenment I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, but it wasn't sustainable. I discovered that life consumes other life. It's natural. We are no more "taught" to eat animals than a baby lion is "taught" to eat a gazelle. Human beings are omnivores by nature. I've come to terms with it. And it's not an immoral thing (if done properly).
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

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