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Thread: The Truth About Meat and Dairy

  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I'm still digging into this, so I haven't concluded anything yet. But there are a number of very, very interesting scriptures that actually seem to support this idea that certain scribes changed God's law in order to carry on with animal sacrifices and flesh eating that was taking place in pagan nations, and was a practice that they wanted to continue.

    When I have the time (I have to go eat dinner now) and my thumb feels better, I'm going to compile these scriptures and I'll post some of them.

    But to answer your question, I think that our God-given discernment and intuition is important, and knowing the heart of God… God is merciful and loving and has a self-sacrificing kind of love. God created the animals, so obviously God loves and has mercy for His creation.

    Of course, God is sovereign and He has the right to take life as He sees fit. But I do not believe that God wants us to needlessly kill innocent animals. And I absolutely believe that factory farming and other cruel practices going on today are heartbreaking to God.
    Lily, I think that you'll find that it's probably in your interest to accept that the Bible has suffered at the hands of men through time. The older Greek and Hebrew is where you'll find the more interesting reads. And,of course, extra-biblical works of the time of Jesus do exist. These original works should not be discredited because they tell the same story in more relative language since they've never been altered to the extent of the linguistics in the Bible.

    Agreed on your latter point.

    Sneaking up on the little feller on his own turf if you're hungry and need to eat, I'd probably see it the other way, though.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 09:32 PM.

    Carpe Diem!



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  3. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Did Jesus eat meat at the Last Supper? http://www.biblestudytools.com/luke/...q=luke+22:7-16

    From Luke:



    Matthew leaves off the mention of lamb.



    John does not say what was served but calls it a Passover meal. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...3&version=NASB



    Lamb is an important part of a Passover meal. http://www.dummies.com/education/hol...assover-seder/
    Jesus himself was the Passover lamb. The perfect lamb of God.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  4. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    Lily, I think that you'll find that it's probably in you interest to accept that the Bible has suffered at the hands of men through time.

    Agreed on your latter point.

    Sneaking up on the little feller on his own turf if your hungry and needto eat,, I'd probably see it the other way,though.
    You're talking about something else, which I don't really agree with. But that's another topic.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  5. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Jesus himself was the Passover lamb. The perfect lamb of God.
    While they were eating, Jesus took bread, spoke a blessing and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is My body.”
    http://biblehub.com/matthew/26-26.htm
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  6. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Yes, and his body was represented by bread. If there was an actual lamb there, that would have been the perfect time to use that lamb to represent His body, saying… "This lamb represents my body, eat it in memory of me." But it was bread.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  7. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Yes, and his body was represented by bread. If there was an actual lamb there, that would have been the perfect time to use that lamb to represent His body, saying… "This lamb represents my body, eat it in memory of me." But it was bread.
    Yup. However, that passage is describing the literalness of the eucharist. The actual translation says "Take, eat. This is my body". Then he took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying "Drink from it all of you. For this is My blood of the New Covenant which is shed for many for the remission of sins". The figurativeness of communion is strictly for non-Catholic heterodox christians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao! on ignore till 11/1-Natural Citizen

  8. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    You're talking about something else, which I don't really agree with. But that's another topic.
    What am I talking about that's another topic?
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 09-16-2017 at 09:39 PM.

    Carpe Diem!

  9. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yup. However, that passage is describing the literalness of the eucharist. The actual translation says "Take, eat. This is my body". Then he took the cup and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying "Drink from it all of you. For this is My blood of the New Covenant which is shed for many for the remission of sins". The figurativeness of communion is strictly for non-Catholic heterodox christians.
    I don't agree with the Catholic view of transubstantiation... but that's a whole other debate. And a big controversial one, that I don't think we'll ever resolve here.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  10. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    What am I talking about that's another topic?
    I was talking about the view that in the specific area of flesh eating, the 'lying scribes' as mentioned in Jeremiah and other places changed God's law. (I'm not saying I believe that, btw, just mentioning that idea.) Your post seemed to be referring to a general changing of the scriptures overall, which kind of implies that none of it is trustworthy. But if that's not what you meant, please correct me.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  11. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I was talking about the view that in the specific area of flesh eating, the 'lying scribes' as mentioned in Jeremiah and other places changed God's law. (I'm not saying I believe that, btw, just mentioning that idea.) Your post seemed to be referring to a general changing of the scriptures overall, which kind of implies that none of it is trustworthy. But if that's not what you meant, please correct me.
    Oh. Well, I've said before that the Bible is trustworthy for the most part. In fact,I've said it to you, so you should already know that I don't say that the whole Bible is messed up.

    Anyway. I was just agreeing with Zip on that point that he made. I try to stay out of these threads.

    Carpe Diem!

  12. #131

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    I still can't believe you neg repped me. "Neg for not saying why"
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  13. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I don't agree with the Catholic view of transubstantiation... but that's a whole other debate. And a big controversial one, that I don't think we'll ever resolve here.
    Let me know if you ever want to get into it. I'll contribute to the debate/discussion if I have time. ~hugs~
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao! on ignore till 11/1-Natural Citizen

  14. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I still can't believe you neg repped me. "Neg for not saying why"
    You back-sassing? There's more where that came from.

    Carpe Diem!

  15. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Let me know if you ever want to get into it. I'll contribute to the debate/discussion if I have time. ~hugs~
    Ok. Yeah, it would probably be an interesting discussion. I'm sure one of these days we'll all get into it. ((Hugs))

    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    You back-sassing? There's more where that came from.
    lol! I'm not sure what's gotten into you tonight.

    Last edited by lilymc; 09-16-2017 at 10:16 PM.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  16. #135

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    Dude, you have be repeatedly badgering Genesis quotations, while knowing that meat reference was in there? Seriously, disingenuous on your part.

    By the by, the Bible references 'meat' 85-times and 'Passover lamb' 11-times. That is a lot of conspiring for what is suppose to be the bona fide word of God.
    Last edited by Weston White; 09-17-2017 at 08:23 AM.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  17. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Yes, and his body was represented by bread. If there was an actual lamb there, that would have been the perfect time to use that lamb to represent His body, saying… "This lamb represents my body, eat it in memory of me." But it was bread.
    Great, we can all just play ignorant, fast and loose, with scripture, I will infer that the Bible condones cannibalism in its statements of drinking the blood and eating the flesh of Christ.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  18. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    Great, we can all just play ignorant, fast and loose, with scripture, I will infer that the Bible condones cannibalism in its statements of drinking the blood and eating the flesh of Christ.
    Nonsense. You were the one who has blatantly ignored God's original design for food, as well as the scriptures about the future, when once again humans and animals will not harm each other. You have completely ignored God's perfect will. It's like you don't even care about that.

    You are the one who has ignored that flesh-eating is a result of living in a fallen world. You are the one who has ignored that God repeatedly states He wants mercy, and for us to do the right thing. It's like you don't even care about that.

    Are you a practicing Christian? If not, then I would rather not even discuss the scriptures with you, since your own words have made it clear that you don't care much about God's perfect will, His true heart and what the actual truth is (sometimes you have to dig deeper than what it appears on the surface.) You seem to only care about your stomach.
    "God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages." – Jacques Deval

    @livemercifully

  19. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    Great, we can all just play ignorant, fast and loose, with scripture, I will infer that the Bible condones cannibalism in its statements of drinking the blood and eating the flesh of Christ.
    You would be incorrect. Google "transubstantiation", plz.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 09-17-2017 at 09:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao! on ignore till 11/1-Natural Citizen

  20. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    She's from the onion! Fake.

    Besides, how much flavor is there in meat when you don't season it or prepare it a certain way? How many people would want to eat roadkill? The taste is primarily in the seasoning and the way you cook it. And believe it or not, you can get non-meat alternatives to taste that smoky, delicious way, just through the seasonings and how you cook it.
    I often eat meat without any seasoning at all! There is nothing quite so luscious as a fatty, medium rare Katahdin lamb chop.
    "Sorry, fellows, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit."

  21. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    You would be incorrect. Google "transubstantiation", plz.
    Well, not according to a certain someone. So sorry, your point would be valid, but instead it just cannot be.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  22. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    Well, not according to a certain someone. So sorry, your point would be valid, but instead it just cannot be.
    Being who? You might think it can't be, but it's so. Since you clearly forgot to google it, I did it for you here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao! on ignore till 11/1-Natural Citizen

  23. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Nonsense. You were the one who has blatantly ignored God's original design for food, as well as the scriptures about the future, when once again humans and animals will not harm each other. You have completely ignored God's perfect will. It's like you don't even care about that.

    You are the one who has ignored that flesh-eating is a result of living in a fallen world. You are the one who has ignored that God repeatedly states He wants mercy, and for us to do the right thing. It's like you don't even care about that.

    Are you a practicing Christian? If not, then I would rather not even discuss the scriptures with you, since your own words have made it clear that you don't care much about God's perfect will, His true heart and what the actual truth is (sometimes you have to dig deeper than what it appears on the surface.) You seem to only care about your stomach.
    1. First you obscured key information pertaining to Genesis, then you discount it, all the while ignoring that there are over one-hundred other references to meat throughout the Bible.

    2. The Old Testament is no longer applicable; therefore, if God had long ago decided to change the rules of his Earthly realm then we should simply accept that for what it is and respond accordingly.

    3. Christianity is fundamentally established by the New Testament, while Sharia (The Hadith) is largely derived from the Old Testament.

    4. Jeremiah 31:31–32: “’Behold, days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,’ declares the Lord”
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  24. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Being who? You might think it can't be, but it's so. Since you clearly forgot to google it, I did it for you here.
    ...Somebody playing fast and loose with Genesis.
    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius


    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  25. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston White View Post
    ...Somebody playing fast and loose with Genesis.
    Weak answer is weak. The theology of transubstantiation isn't even based on Genesis. It's from Matthew 26:26-27. If you want to talk prefigurement of Christ in the OT, that's a different matter.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 09-18-2017 at 09:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 (KJV)//I sell stuff here go buy nao! on ignore till 11/1-Natural Citizen

  26. #145

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    i'd starve before eating lab food
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

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