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Thread: EU heads toward tougher action on Poland after Merkel joins fray

  1. #1

    EU heads toward tougher action on Poland after Merkel joins fray

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel abandoned her usual public restraint last week by criticizing Poland's governing Law and Justice (PiS) party, showing the European Union's executive has the firm backing of its most influential member.
    It may be a watershed moment in the dispute over an overhaul of the judiciary and other steps taken by PiS which Brussels says undermine democracy in the largest ex-communist EU state.
    Poland risks a reprimand under procedures known as Article 7 that have never been used before and would deal a heavy blow to its prestige, deepen its isolation in the bloc and diminish its ability to influence EU policies.
    Much is also at stake for the EU. The row has deepened divisions as the EU comes to terms with Brexit and failure to act against a member seen as flouting democracy could raise questions about its determination to defend its core values.
    "As much as I wish for good relations with Poland -- they are our neighbor and I will always strive for this given the importance of our ties -- we can't simply keep our mouth shut in order to keep the peace," Merkel said in Berlin.
    "This goes to the very foundations of our cooperation within the European Union."
    For a decade after it joined the EU in 2004, Poland was the poster child of the bloc's eastward expansion as it was seen as faithfully upholding the EU's democratic values and its economy thrived.
    But relations have deteriorated rapidly since the eurosceptic PiS led by former prime minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski, long a political foe of European Council President Donald Tusk, won power in late 2015.
    BATTLE OVER JUDICIAL REFORMS
    The Commission opened an inquiry into the rule of law in Poland in January 2016 after new legislation put more power in the hands of the Warsaw government, a move seen in Brussels as weakening democratic checks and balances.
    The main battle now is over reforms that the Commission says undermine the judiciary's independence, giving the justice minister discretionary power to prolong the mandates of judges at retirement age and dismiss and appoint court presidents.
    In another unprecedented development, Warsaw has also ignored a ruling by the EU's top court by continuing with large-scale logging in an ancient forest.
    Until now Berlin has let French President Emmanuel Macron take the lead on Poland since he took office last May. He says Warsaw is isolating itself and shunned Poland and its close EU ally, Hungary, during a recent tour of eastern Europe.
    But Merkel, who will seek a fourth term as chancellor in an election on Sept. 24, showed her concern by speaking out against Poland last Tuesday and by discussing Poland last week with the head of the Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker.
    A diplomatic source said their talks included discussion of how quickly to proceed in the row with Warsaw.
    PiS denies accusations by the Commission, Western EU states, political opponents in Poland and rights groups that it is eroding democracy in the country of 38 million people.
    "Some EU politicians have made comments most recently that are unjust on Poland. That is why I want to stress that Poland is a democratic country, based on the rule of law," Prime Minister Beata Szydlo said in video footage released last week.
    Filmed standing in front of Polish and EU flags, she said: "Let's not allow particular interests of particular countries to overshadow the chief current task, which is to guarantee security to the people of our continent."

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/eu-heads-...104308117.html


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If I were Poland I would be worried that Germany (the EU) and Russia might both invade at the same time AGAIN.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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  3. #2
    Poland remembers taking it in the ass from both sides. They need all the support we can give them without taxation.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

  4. #3
    Top EU Court Threatens Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic With Fines If They Refuse Refugees

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-06/top-eu-court-threatens-poland-hungary-czech-republic-fines-if-they-refuse-refugees



    Polish Foreign Minister Demands Germany Pay $1 Trillion In Reparations

    Poland has escalated its demands for World War II reparations from Germany from "billions" a month ago, to "about $1 trillion" today as Poland’s foreign minister demanded "serious talks" were needed with Germany.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...on-reparations
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    German Chancellor Angela Merkel has urged Hungary to quickly implement a ruling by the European Union's top court that member states must take in a share of refugees who reach the continent.In its ruling last week, the court dismissed complaints by Slovakia and Hungary over the mandatory quotas introduced in 2015 to relocate asylum seekers from Greece and Italy.


    Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said on Friday his government would not change its anti-immigration stance.
    In an interview with Berliner Zeitung newspaper to be published on Tuesday, Merkel insisted that Hungary had to implement the court ruling.
    "It's unacceptable that a government says a ruling of the European Court of Justice does not interest them," Merkel said, according to a preview published by the daily late on Monday.
    Asked whether this meant that Hungary had to leave the EU, Merkel said: "This means that a very fundamental question of Europe is being touched -- because for me, Europe is an area of the rule of law. We will have to talk about this at the European Council in October."

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/merkel-ca...230946750.html


    The European Union warned Poland's right-wing government on Tuesday it had a month to tackle concerns over judicial reforms or risk being taken to court.
    Brussels and Warsaw have been at loggerheads since Poland's Law and Justice Party announced measures in 2015 the EU has said pose a "systemic threat" to the rule of law.
    The European Commission, the 28-nation EU's executive, sent another warning after it deemed Warsaw's response to legal action launched by Brussels in July to be inadequate.
    "The Polish authorities now have one month to take the necessary measures to comply with this reasoned opinion," the commission said in a statement.
    "If the Polish authorities do not take appropriate measures, the commission may decide to refer the case to the Court of Justice of the EU," it added.
    The European Court of Justice, the bloc's highest tribunal, can impose fines on Poland if it rules in favour of the EU's legal action over the overhaul of the Polish law on the ordinary courts organisation.
    Tuesday's warning was the second step in the commission's action, known as an infringement procedure, launched in July.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/eu-warns-...143108950.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Wait until they realize that NATO is destined to become the policing 'peace keeping' arm for global policy.

    .... here they come. Seasoned & battle hardened.

    Facing defeat Daesh transfers money to Europe – diplomat
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...rope-diplomat/

    Hundreds of former ISIS militants slip across the border into Turkey
    https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...border-turkey/
    Last edited by goldenequity; 09-13-2017 at 06:41 AM.

  7. #6
    Merkel and French President Emmanual Macron publicly agreed to back Article 7 proceedings against Poland for refusing to comply with EU immigration quotas and changes to its judicial system.
    Immigration quotas, I might add, that are becoming harder to defend as the war in Syria is mostly over and the flow of refugees from there has slowed to a trickle. But, those brought in and stranded in camps in Italy and Greece apparently need to go somewhere else.
    But, no one wants them. And the rest of the EU is trying to bully Poland and the rest of the Visigrad countries – Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia – into taking on their ‘fair share.’ The problem with this is that Merkel made this decision unilaterally and foisted it on the rest of the EU.
    And she is determined not to lose this fight to Poland, not because this is any kind of humanitarian issue at this point.
    No, this is about the primacy of EU diktats being enforced at the expense of logic and political cohesion. And, as I’ve been warning about all year, Merkel will put the EU before any practical consideration and bring Article 7 proceedings against Poland.
    Because she has to.
    Immigration and the destruction of individual European cultures is the guiding principle behind the EU’s biggest benefactors. This policy is part of the long-term strategic goals of the EU. It has created an army which will be used to quell secessionist movements in the name of ‘continental security.’
    Because despite the fevered dreams of a few hundred Latvians, the Russians are not invading Europe anytime soon.
    And I have to wonder who will staff this Grand Army of the Oligarchy? After impoverishing an entire generation of people thanks to a decade-long banking system bailout, you shouldn’t be expecting the crŤme de la crŤme of the vanishing European middle class.
    You can expect a number of these newly-integrated immigrants that Merkel invited at everyone else’s expense will be in their ranks. And only the most politically-acceptable members of the current armies of each country will be invited to positions of authority in this new EU army. Their loyalty will be to the EU first and their homes second.
    The very definition of a Vichy gendarme for the 21st century.
    Poland and the rest of the Visigrad Four – Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia – are headed for a collision course with the rest of Western Europe over this issue and many others.
    And invoking Article 7 will eventually allow the European Parliament to rescind all economic aid to Poland and its voting rights within the body. While at that same time not allowing Poland free access to international trade because it will not be an independent nation at that point.

    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...ticle-7-poland
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Eastern Europe vs. Western Europe War is coming soon, will Russia help the east? or will it reprise WWII and attack from the other side? or will they just sit back and laugh?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Merkel and French President Emmanual Macron publicly agreed to back Article 7 proceedings against Poland for refusing to comply with EU immigration quotas and changes to its judicial system.
    ...

    And the rest of the EU is trying to bully Poland and the rest of the Visigrad countries Ė Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia Ė into taking on their Ďfair share.í The problem with this is that Merkel made this decision unilaterally and foisted it on the rest of the EU. ...

    this is any kind of humanitarian issue at this point. No, this is about the primacy of EU diktats being enforced at the expense of logic and political cohesion. ...

    It has created an army which will be used to quell secessionist movements in the name of Ďcontinental security.í

    The very definition of a Vichy gendarme for the 21st century. Poland and the rest of the Visigrad Four Ė Hungary, Czech Republic and Slovakia Ė are headed for a collision course with the rest of Western Europe over this issue and many others.

    And invoking Article 7 will eventually allow the European Parliament to rescind all economic aid to Poland and its voting rights within the body. While at that same time not allowing Poland free access to international trade because it will not be an independent nation at that point.

    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...ticle-7-poland

    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.



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  11. #9

  12. #10
    On Wednesday morning, in a historic development - one which may herald the future fracturing of the EU - the European Commission launched an injunction against Poland for a "serious breach" of European common values and rule of law. The European Commission said it decided to take the next step in its infringement procedure against Poland for breaches of EU law by the Law on the Ordinary Courts Organisation, referring Poland to the EU Court of Justice. And while only a warning now, Article 7 could lead to sanctions and a suspension of EU voting rights.
    The unprecedented measure was taken amid two-year tensions between the EU and Poland over the latter’s judicial reforms. The bloc is concerned over "a serious breach of the rule of law" in the country, saying the reforms resulted in “the absence of judicial independence.” "It is up to Poland to identify its own model for its justice system, but it should do so in a way that respects the rule of law," it said in a statement.
    In a bizarre warning, European Council president Donald Tusk, who himself is a Polish citizen, said that "Poland is currently seen as a force for disintegration of the European Union (EU) and hence it is important to end the destruction of Warsaw's reputation."
    In a statement posted on Twitter, the Commission said that "despite efforts for a constructive dialogue for 2 years, we have concluded that there is a clear risk of a serious breach of the rule of law in Poland."
    Despite efforts for a constructive dialogue for 2 years, we have concluded that there is a clear risk of a serious breach of the rule of law in #Poland
    We therefore proposed to @EUCouncil to adopt a decision under #Article7 (1) of the Treaty on EU
    https://t.co/EFfnjTOlF6
    — European Commission (@EU_Commission) December 20, 2017
    "Judicial reforms in Poland mean that the country's judiciary is now under the political control of the ruling majority. In the absence of judicial independence, serious questions are raised about the effective application of EU law," the Commission added. One of the most worrying reforms in Poland, the Commission said, was the government's move to grant the president greater powers to appoint judges to the Supreme Court, whose duties include confirming election results.
    Germany and France are expected to back the commission’s recommendation when member states vote next year, in what is a dramatic escalation in tensions over the minimum obligations of EU membership. One senior EU diplomat tolf the FT it was a momentous decision to “cross the Rubicon”.
    When announcing the decision to launch the censure process against Poland, Commission Vice President Frans Timmermans said that the ruling Law and Justice party (PiS) had adopted 13 laws in the last two years that created a situation where the state "can systematically interfere with the composition, powers, the administration and the functioning" of the judiciary. Timmermans also accused Warsaw of ignoring three warnings by the EU executive that its judicial measures were undermining the rule of law. "At the end of the day it is only the law that can protect us against naked political power, at the end of the day it is the law that keeps the European Union together," he said.
    "It is with a heavy heart that we have activated Article 7(1). But the facts leave us with no choice. We have no other option. This is not just about Poland, it is about the EU as a whole. We continue to hope that we can enter into a more fruitful dialogue" Timmermans tweeted.
    It is with a heavy heart that we have activated Article 7(1). But the facts leave us with no choice. We have no other option. This is not just about Poland, it is about the EU as a whole. We continue to hope that we can enter into a more fruitful dialogue.
    — Frans Timmermans (@TimmermansEU) December 20, 2017
    * * *
    EU member states must now decide by a two-thirds majority whether they agree with the Commission's recommendation to trigger Article 7. If agreed, Poland could see its voting rights suspended.
    However, Poland also has three months to remedy the situation by implementing a series of recommendations by the Commission aimed at restoring judicial legitimacy.
    Responding to the triggering of Article 7, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said that the country is “as devoted to the rule of law as the rest of the EU,” and called on the EU partners for open and honest dialogue. “I believe that Poland’s sovereignty and the idea of United Europe can be reconciled,” Morawiecki tweeted.
    PiS spokeswoman Beata Mazurek dismissed the Commission's decision to trigger Article 7, saying the decision "had no merit" and that it was "solely a political decision." She also stated that the EU’s actions could be related to Warsaw’s opposition to accepting Muslim refugees, according to Reuters.
    Polish Justice Minister Zbigniew Ziobro told Polish state news agency PAP that he is puzzled over the “politically motivated” decision, stressing Warsaw strictly adheres to EU laws. Ziobro, who also serves as chief prosecutor as part of the judicial reforms, said Poland's government "must continue the reforms." Poland's national-conservative government has justified the measures, claiming the courts need to change because they are inefficient and remain steeped in a communist-era mentality.
    Siding with Poland, Hungarian Prime Minister Zsolt Semjen decried the Commission's decision, saying Budapest will "defend" Poland by vetoing any disciplinary measures.
    Meanwhile, setting the stage for a conflict between Poland and Germany, as we reported previously and ahead of Timmerman's announcement, the German government said it would support the Commission if it decided to open proceedings against Poland. "If it comes to the decision we will support," German Chancellor Angela Merkel's spokesman Steffen Seibert told reporters on Wednesday morning. Earlier reports suggested that France would back the move.

    More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...ons-may-follow
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    At a time when the United Kingdom and Poland are both facing increasing domestic and regional uncertainties, the two countries' governments are working to deepen political and defense ties. On Dec. 21, British Prime Minister Theresa May met with her Polish counterpart, Mateusz Morawiecki, in Warsaw, where they signed a bilateral defense treaty and discussed ways to counteract Russian propaganda.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/artic...ship-necessity

    1939 is calling, they want their strategic situation back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If I were Poland I would be worried that Germany (the EU) and Russia might both invade at the same time AGAIN.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 12-21-2017 at 09:47 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    EU member states are choosing sides in the dispute: Hungary said it will veto any EU sanctions proposed against Poland, EUObserver reported Dec. 21. And Romanian President Klaus Iohannis said that he believes Romania faces a similar risk of EU sanctions if its ruling coalition moves forward on proposed judicial reforms, Politico reported Dec. 20.

    https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...dicial-reforms
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Probably about time for the Poles to start looking at preemptive strikes on the nazis .

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Probably about time for the Poles to start looking at preemptive strikes on the nazis .
    First they need to secure an alliance with Austria and the Visigrad group and a non-aggression pact with Russia.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    First they need to secure an alliance with Austria and the Visigrad group and a non-aggression pact with Russia.
    That should have been done yesterday .

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    That should have been done yesterday .
    Or last year.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Merkelstan will be in deep $#@! if I offer my services to the Poles ......

  21. #18
    The Polish Armed Forces of the West basically never returned to Poland after the War and remained in exile to avoid the communism .

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Merkelstan will be in deep $#@! if I offer my services to the Poles ......
    What have you got against @merkelstan ?

    merkelstan
    Member


    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What have you got against @merkelstan ?

    merkelstan
    Member


    Once I defeat the germans it will be given to Luxembourg and all germans whose ancestors were nazis and all merkel supporters will have to wear T shirts with the Unabomber on it ea day so the normal people know not to trust them . I also am keeping all of the Reichelbrau for myself .
    Last edited by oyarde; 12-21-2017 at 11:41 PM.

  24. #21
    You lost the USA in 1913 so don't be so smug.
    "If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." - Thessalonians 3:10
    "I have a strong temperamental attachment to the meaning of words. In the age I find myself in, that condemns me to a daily dose of pain." - John Derbyshire
    "I can find millions of 'social problems' such as: 'Too many red-headed people have hangnails'." - Murray Rothbard

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    EU member states are choosing sides in the dispute: Hungary said it will veto any EU sanctions proposed against Poland, EUObserver reported Dec. 21. And Romanian President Klaus Iohannis said that he believes Romania faces a similar risk of EU sanctions if its ruling coalition moves forward on proposed judicial reforms, Politico reported Dec. 20.

    https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...dicial-reforms
    Romania's Senate has approved a set of laws to overhaul the country's judiciary, which opponents argue could give politicians too much influence over the judicial system, Reuters reported March 27.

    More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situa...udicial-system
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Do you think Poland and other bullied EU countries would look East toward Russia and join forces to defend against Weatern EU demands?

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by pao View Post
    Do you think Poland and other bullied EU countries would look East toward Russia and join forces to defend against Weatern EU demands?
    Anything is possible.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by pao View Post
    Do you think Poland and other bullied EU countries would look East toward Russia and join forces to defend against Weatern EU demands?
    Ain't gonna happen. The Russians $#@!ed Poland too hard.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Ain't gonna happen. The Russians $#@!ed Poland too hard.
    So did Germany and the EU is Grossdeutschland.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So did Germany and the EU is Grossdeutschland.



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