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Thread: Bitcoin Cracks $5000

  1. #781
    The banker who gave me the 6k tip now turned bullish to 23k

    unfortunately i only bought 30% of my position at 6k. Price didn't stay there long enough.

    Rumors of Saudi Princes wanting to buy positions in Bitcoin.



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  3. #782
    $10,035
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #783
    The projection from last year that it would end 2018 @ 40k still seems possible
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  5. #784
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    Go to a bitcoin atm. Scan your barcode. Walk away with fiat ANONYMOUSLY. Sorry IRS.



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  7. #785
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    I took a significant chunk of my bitcoins at 12500-9500 and reinvested in reputable alts. I can make multiples of my money in the runup.
    Last edited by AuH20; 02-15-2018 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    For what? Like taxes? Haven't you heard? Paying taxes on cryptos is for suckers. It's anonymous and decentralized and private and revolutionary and cool and 'cuz Bilderberger Peter Thiel and Hedge Fund Wall Streeter Novogratz like it the deep state hates it. So forget about taxes and P/L statements and lame stuff like that. Just be cool and edgy and trade da coins. You'll get a Lambo, promise!

    (Until the notice from the IRS shows up and the coiners realize that Coinbase's board of directors is full of fedgov)

    I’m a bookkeeper. I have a few people asking about how to keep track.

  9. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlybee View Post
    I’m a bookkeeper. I have a few people asking about how to keep track.
    Just send them my message.


    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Go to a bitcoin atm. Scan your barcode. Walk away with fiat ANONYMOUSLY. Sorry IRS.
    Except for that part where you turned over all of your personal info to the exchange to buy them in the first place. Ever since then, your name has been attached to everything you've done. You think you can cash out a bitcoin that has your name attached to it at an ATM and it not be on record? I fear there will be a lot of people in for a very, very rude awakening when it becomes clear what is meant by a GLOBAL currency.
    Last edited by devil21; 02-15-2018 at 02:53 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  10. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Just send them my message.




    Except for that part where you turned over all of your personal info to the exchange to buy them in the first place. Ever since then, your name has been attached to everything you've done. You think you can cash out a bitcoin that has your name attached to it at an ATM and it not be on record? I fear there will be a lot of people in for a very, very rude awakening when it becomes clear what is meant by a GLOBAL currency.
    However, there is no transaction available to the IRS of one actually selling the said coin(s). All they have is a point of origin and some blockchain traces in some instances. Understand that I have anonymous accounts on exchanges in the Far East. You can move it all over the internet to your heart's delight. Anonymous personal wallets exist. The burden of proof is on the IRS to prove that you sold the coin, but once it goes down the rabbit hole ( see Monero ), they are lost. ROFL This is the primary reason the TPTB are crying out for regulation.

    As long as you don't spend the washed fiat on a high profile luxury item that doesn't mesh with your annual income, you are in the clear. The IRS is completely powerless unless you are dumb enough to reconvert with an IRS assisting company like Coinbase.
    Last edited by AuH20; 02-15-2018 at 03:53 PM.

  11. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    However, there is no transaction available to the IRS of one actually selling the said coin(s).
    How do you figure? If you did it through an exchange that you had to log in to (which also has your IP address, device MAC address, etc) everything you did was recorded and attached to your name (it's not "your" name but that's outside the scope of this convo). What, exactly, do you think the purpose of total information awareness is? You want to bet there's a camera in that bitcoin ATM with facial recognition software? If you have an ID, your face is already in a global facial recognition database! Some of you seem to have no idea just how interlinked everything is now.

    All they have is a point of origin in some instances. Understand that I have anonymous accounts on exchanges in the Far East. You can move it all over the internet to your heart's delight. Anonymous personal wallets exist. The burden of proof is on the IRS to prove that you sold the coin, but once it goes down the rabbit hole, they are lost. ROFL
    So cute. Still clinging to a notion of anonymity even though you're surrounded by advanced cameras, your devices ID you to everything you interact with (IoT), the exchanges themselves obviously communicate with each other (otherwise there would be no network in the first place) and can/do send your ID info all over.

    As long as you don't spend the washed fiat on a high profile luxury item that doesn't mesh with your annual income, you are in the clear. The IRS is completely powerless unless you are dumb enough to reconvert with an IRS assisting company like Coinbase.
    You go ahead and believe that. Your only saving grace, for the moment, is that it may not be 100% completely integrated and operational yet. Yet. Do you feel lucky?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  12. #790
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    Like I said, the IRS is in trouble against an invisible foe, but it remains to be seen for how long this will continue.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/o...coin-fear.html

    Blockchain technologies can also make it difficult for the I.R.S. to tax cryptocurrency trading profits. Here is a simple tax dodge that would be hard for the I.R.S. to prove: Suppose A, B and C are electronic addresses you own. You let the I.R.S. know you own A, but not B and C. You buy one Bitcoin at $15,000 and park it at A, expecting the price to go up. Just a few hours later, when a Bitcoin is worth $15,500, you send that Bitcoin to B and then to C.

    A few months later, when your Bitcoin is now worth $25,000, you send it from C to A and tell the I.R.S., “I sold a Bitcoin to an anonymous counterparty at B back at $15,500 and just now bought a Bitcoin from another anonymous counterparty at C for $25,000.” As a result, you owe taxes on capital gains of just $500 rather than $10,000.

    The I.R.S. can observe all the transactions between A, B and C on the Bitcoin blockchain, but it cannot disprove that B and C are “arm’s length” counterparties (that is, independent and not colluding). Rules in the United States that require financial institutions to verify the identity of address holders do not solve the problem, because as far as the I.R.S. knows, B and C could have been set up by a foreign institution that does not comply with such rules.

  13. #791
    Not sure I'd quote an NYT opinion piece as a bastion of truth reporting, but hey I hope it works out for you.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  14. #792
    Dan Larimer creator of upcoming EOS says: remove all taxes.

    Pay for everything with inflation.

    That's how EOS will work. Block producers will be paid with inflation.



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  16. #793

  17. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    . The burden of proof is on the IRS to prove that you sold the coin,
    I'm pretty sure the irs puts the burden of proof on you to prove you didn't.

  18. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'm pretty sure the irs puts the burden of proof on you to prove you didn't.
    I made a typo and sent 'em to the wrong wallet address

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #796
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I made a typo and sent 'em to the wrong wallet address

    Then you should have no problem proving that. It's all public.

  20. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Then you should have no problem proving that. It's all public.
    Right, it's in the blockchain, I think part B in the NYT diagram.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #798
    11,091
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #799
    11,552
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #800



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  25. #801
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    10500
    $0

    $20 trillion in free bitcoin! Exchange glitch sells bitcoin for $0
    https://www.rt.com/business/419452-f...change-glitch/

    A computing error at a Japanese cryptocurrency exchange Zaif has allowed some customers to claim digital tokens for $0. This raises further questions about security at crypto exchanges.

    As Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun reports, this seventh client “purchased” 2,200 trillion yen ($20 trillion) worth of bitcoin and tried to withdraw it from the exchange.
    So this raises an important question. If a glitch like this happens and it actually processes, how does the chain go back and "undelete" the purchase???
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  26. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    $0

    $20 trillion in free bitcoin! Exchange glitch sells bitcoin for $0
    https://www.rt.com/business/419452-f...change-glitch/



    So this raises an important question. If a glitch like this happens and it actually processes, how does the chain go back and "undelete" the purchase???

    The exchanges don't actually do all the micro-transactions in crypto, they just hold a reserve like any other exchange and they keep their reserves at the proper levels.

    This guy bought $20 trillion worth of bitcoin, there isn't even $20 trillion worth of bitcoin in existence. He bought worthless tokens on their server, then tried to cash out the tokens. Obviously they don't have $20 trillion so he wasn't thinking very far ahead if he thought it was actually going to happen.

    What he should have done if he really wanted to screw over the exchange was actually attempt to send SOME of the bitcoin to another wallet. He couldn't have sent all of it because it doesn't exist, but if they had actually sent him some bitcoin to a wallet address that he has control over, then they would have been unable to reverse the transaction.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-21-2018 at 03:09 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #803
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The exchanges don't actually do all the micro-transactions in crypto, they just hold a reserve like any other exchange and they keep their reserves at the proper levels.

    This guy bought $20 trillion worth of bitcoin, there isn't even $20 trillion worth of bitcoin in existence. He bought worthless tokens on their server, then tried to cash out the tokens. Obviously they don't have $20 trillion so he wasn't thinking very far ahead if he thought it was actually going to happen.

    What he should have done if he really wanted to screw over the exchange was actually attempt to send SOME of the bitcoin to another wallet. He couldn't have sent all of it because it doesn't exist, but if they had actually sent him some bitcoin to a wallet address that he has control over, then they would have been unable to reverse the transaction.
    Sure, in that specific example it wouldn't have made a difference but otherwise say an exchange glitches out and offers bitcoin for $20 each and a crapton of people buy and the purchases do get processed into the chain before the mistake is realized. Then what? If coins can be "lost" or otherwise disappear or be stolen and the chain not reverted to make the victim whole again, what happens if this kind of issue happens? Seems to me the whole thing would be screwed. Also begs the question of how one knows for sure that their coin hasn't been rehypothecated over and over.

    It is nice to see someone admit that "buying" a bitcoin on an exchange isn't actually a purchase of a bitcoin on the blockchain, but rather is the purchase of a "tag" on an exchange.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  28. #804
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Sure, in that specific example it wouldn't have made a difference but otherwise say an exchange glitches out and offers bitcoin for $20 each and a crapton of people buy and the purchases do get processed into the chain before the mistake is realized. Then what? If coins can be "lost" or otherwise disappear or be stolen and the chain not reverted to make the victim whole again, what happens if this kind of issue happens? Seems to me the whole thing would be screwed. Also begs the question of how one knows for sure that their coin hasn't been rehypothecated over and over.
    That's why you keep your coins in a wallet like Mordan and most of us here have always said to do, only keep on the exchange what you want to trade.

    The worst thing that could happen, like I said, is the person actually gets their BTC off the exchange. The exchange will have decreased their BTC reserves without getting anything in return and they may have a difficult time fully compensating their customers.


    It is nice to see someone admit that "buying" a bitcoin on an exchange isn't actually a purchase of a bitcoin on the blockchain, but rather is the purchase of a "tag" on an exchange.
    What's wrong with admitting that? If you can't transfer the coin off the exchange into your own private wallet, people start complaining.. people start complaining, they start pulling their coin off the exchange. Bad day for the exchange.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  29. #805
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That's why you keep your coins in a wallet like Mordan and most of us here have always said to do, only keep on the exchange what you want to trade.

    The worst thing that could happen, like I said, is the person actually gets their BTC off the exchange. The exchange will have decreased their BTC reserves without getting anything in return and they may have a difficult time fully compensating their customers.




    What's wrong with admitting that? If you can't transfer the coin off the exchange into your own private wallet, people start complaining.. people start complaining, they start pulling their coin off the exchange. Bad day for the exchange.
    That's the thing, you're not transferring the actual coin code to your wallet afaik. You're transferring a "tag" to your wallet so the tag that identifies it as yours can't be lost on an exchange. How do you know that you and Mordan don't have a tag in your wallet to the same coin, thus making that coin essentially rehypothecated?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  30. #806
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That's the thing, you're not transferring the actual coin code to your wallet afaik. You're transferring a "tag" to your wallet so the tag that identifies it as yours can't be lost on an exchange. How do you know that you and Mordan don't have a tag in your wallet to the same coin, thus making that coin essentially rehypothecated?
    You really should just buy some crypto. You could buy like $20 worth or something. It would be a great learning experience.. Although a nice wallet costs over $100, if you have a small amount of crypto you could store it on a USB drive no need for the high security.

    But yes, you do actually transfer the actual coin to your wallet from the exchange. You can verify on the blockchain that it is yours, and only yours. Once it is off the exchange it is all yours. But transferring coin to your wallet from an exchange may take some time.. could be 2 minutes could be a couple hours potentially but usually it doesn't take too long. Pretty sure they send them out in batches.

    What's on the exchange is a user interface that simulates a bunch of wallets and a bunch of reserves behind it so that they can keep up with the demand of people transferring coins to and from the exchange, and having cash on hand if people want to cash out, etc.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-21-2018 at 05:26 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #807
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That's the thing, you're not transferring the actual coin code to your wallet afaik. You're transferring a "tag" to your wallet so the tag that identifies it as yours can't be lost on an exchange. How do you know that you and Mordan don't have a tag in your wallet to the same coin, thus making that coin essentially rehypothecated?
    An exchange is like a stock market in some ways, your account there is just an entry in a database. Problems may happen if the exchange has a problem. The worse that happens are those coins on that exchange may get stolen. The most the service can screw up is however many coins that service actually owns. Although exchanges also have other security steps, most exchanges only keep a small percentage of total coins in a "hot" wallet that is instantly usable, most deposits are offline in a cold wallet, brought in as needed. So an exchange may lose 20% of their total coin holding if there is a major problem with their service.


    When someone has a coin in their personal wallet it's like you're holding onto an actual stock certificate. It's yours, you have it in hand, no one else can have any claim to it.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  32. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    $0

    $20 trillion in free bitcoin! Exchange glitch sells bitcoin for $0
    https://www.rt.com/business/419452-f...change-glitch/



    So this raises an important question. If a glitch like this happens and it actually processes, how does the chain go back and "undelete" the purchase???
    see what Danno wrote.

    you sound like Warren Buffet. An old man who does not understand it because he refuses to try it. Fair enough. My grand father died without ever writing an email.

    It is annoying though because you argue on something you have no clue about..



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  34. #809
    Actually, I have many clues on what's going and have proven it in this thread repeatedly. No matter how much y'all want to argue that it's different, it's actually nearly the exact same as stock market exchanges. One could even call it a stock market for man buns lol. If you don't understand fundamentally how the stock exchanges work then you'll never understand what I'm posting. I don't have any skin in the crypto game so I can look at it from the 10,000 feet perspective. Y'all with skin in the game can't do that, for obvious reasons, but that's human nature. It's another banker game, like it or not, so the same rules apply. Nothin' new under the sun...

    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher
    When someone has a coin in their personal wallet it's like you're holding onto an actual stock certificate. It's yours, you have it in hand, no one else can have any claim to it.
    This is an example of the fundamental misunderstanding y'all have about stock markets, and by extension, crypto markets. You never own a share of stock even if you have a certificate. A stock certificate is a usage title (called equitable title), it is not an ownership title. It is the "tag" I keep referring to. Legal ownership of the stock is held by a Fed holding company! The "coin" in your crypto wallet is the equivalent of that equitable title stock certificate. It is a tag, an equitable title, but it is not legal ownership. Why is that? Because according to old banking philosophy, slaves can't own anything. Slaves can only use something for the benefit of the slave owner, slaves can not own.
    Last edited by devil21; 02-24-2018 at 02:13 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  35. #810
    This is now the second person of significance to call for the Flippening this year (other was a hedge fund owner that started one of the first crypto hedge funds).
    https://twitter.com/nictrades/status/967775779923914752

    Remember, ETH price massively outperformed BTC in 2017.
    Last edited by talkingbob; 02-26-2018 at 06:06 AM.

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