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Thread: Stefan Molyneux's Native American Genocide - A Response

  1. #1

    Stefan Molyneux's Native American Genocide - A Response



    This post is dedicated to @oyarde and his ancestors who have endured a lot over the centuries. This is one of those videos that you run into that you just have to share with you best m8s. You will cry a little, laugh a little and WTH a lot after viewing this debunking of a Molyneux fact based, well researched videos.

    This is a story about how the settlers royally fu*ked the native Americans with a dick 10x the size of Micheal Obama's alleged dick. This is one example of how biased Molyneux can be when trying to cater to his new audience of alt right retards.

    Enjoy

    @jmdrake
    @Danke
    @dannno


    Last edited by juleswin; 08-29-2017 at 02:18 PM.



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  3. #2
    Here is the original video, always good to have the original source when the video posted in the OP is highly suspect.

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    I have never watched any molyneaux , even his name is un American.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Here is the original video, always good to have the original source when the video posted in the OP is highly suspect.

    Thanks for the link, I will add it to the OP.

    Also, I have been trying to poke holes in his argument and I have a few weak ones like the word genocide which actually did not exist when the alleged genocide occurred. Plus using the UN definition of genocide put me off a bit. So please use this definition of genocide when viewing the video.

    Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

    So yea, I am in my fan boy mode so any help with critiquing the video would be very helpful. Thanks y'all

  6. #5
    Molyneux admits there were atrocities on both sides, neither side was perfect. In fact, I have ancestors whose entire family, including several young children were slaughtered by Native Americans totally unprovoked.

    One argument that Molyneux makes is that first of all, there are far more Native American genetics in the US today than there was when settlers came here. So to argue their genetics were wiped out doesn't make any sense. For actual numbers, check out the video, I haven't seen it in over a year. As far as pure genetics, you will want to go to the video for the actual numbers, but google says there are over 5 million native Americans today, and estimates say there were about 7 million or so before the settlers came, although there is no exact numbers and all we have are estimates.

    There was in fact a huge die off of Native Americans when the settlers came over, but Molyneux points out that this was not entirely the fault of the settlers, it was incidental. The stories about infecting blankets with disease only has two sources - one of them has been discredited, and the other is extremely vague - it doesn't say anything about how big the operation was or even whether it was carried out. Molyneux also makes the point that the viruses probably would not have survived very long in the blankets and that it would not have been effective had they done so.

    What seems more likely, from the historical data, was that there were diseases that the Native Americans got and these diseases were spread not by some white man's conspiracy, but that over a few decades they traversed the continent before the settlers made their way across the continent. As settlers began making their way across the continent, the natives had already largely been ravaged by disease.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-29-2017 at 02:25 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I have never watched any molyneaux , even his name is un American.
    I wonder if he eats a lot of frog legs.
    "The Patriarch"

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Molyneux admits there were atrocities on both sides, neither side was perfect. In fact, I have ancestors whose entire family, including several young children were slaughtered by Native Americans totally unprovoked.

    One argument that Molyneux makes is that first of all, there are far more Native American genetics in the US today than there was when settlers came here. So to argue their genetics were wiped out doesn't make any sense. For actual numbers, check out the video, I haven't seen it in over a year. As far as pure genetics, you will want to go to the video for the actual numbers, but google says there are over 5 million native Americans today, and estimates say there were about 7 million or so before the settlers came, although there is no exact numbers and all we have are estimates.

    There was in fact a huge die off of Native Americans when the settlers came over, but Molyneux points out that this was not entirely the fault of the settlers, it was incidental. The stories about infecting blankets with disease only has two sources - one of them has been discredited, and the other is extremely vague - it doesn't say anything about how big the operation was or even whether it was carried out. Molyneux also makes the point that the viruses probably would not have survived very long in the blankets and that it would not have been effective had they done so.

    What seems more likely, from the historical data, was that there were diseases that the Native Americans got and these diseases were spread not by some white man's conspiracy, but that over a few decades they traversed the continent before the settlers made their way across the continent. As settlers began making their way across the continent, the natives had already largely been ravaged by disease.
    It is true , the heathens spread disease like wild fire but it was not intentional . After living in the filth and squalor of europe they had built immunities that others could not have .

  9. #8
    If you think about it , white europeans probably had better immunities than anyone in the world at the time . They still had not learned to defecate downstream. Those still living were pretty tough sons of bitches .



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Molyneux admits there were atrocities on both sides, neither side was perfect. In fact, I have ancestors whose entire family, including several young children were slaughtered by Native Americans totally unprovoked.

    One argument that Molyneux makes is that first of all, there are far more Native American genetics in the US today than there was when settlers came here. So to argue their genetics were wiped out doesn't make any sense. For actual numbers, check out the video, I haven't seen it in over a year. As far as pure genetics, you will want to go to the video for the actual numbers, but google says there are over 5 million native Americans today, and estimates say there were about 7 million or so before the settlers came, although there is no exact numbers and all we have are estimates.

    There was in fact a huge die off of Native Americans when the settlers came over, but Molyneux points out that this was not entirely the fault of the settlers, it was incidental. The stories about infecting blankets with disease only has two sources - one of them has been discredited, and the other is extremely vague - it doesn't say anything about how big the operation was or even whether it was carried out. Molyneux also makes the point that the viruses probably would not have survived very long in the blankets and that it would not have been effective had they done so.

    What seems more likely, from the data, was that there were diseases that the Native Americans got and these diseases were spread not by some white man's conspiracy, but that over a few decades they traversed the continent before the settlers made their way across the continent. As settlers began making their way across the continent, the natives had already largely been ravaged by disease.
    I would wait till you actually watch the video, all the claims you just made in this post were addressed by the author, so please give it a listen before making a lengthy response. Its about the same length (36 mins as the Stefan video), you can do it.

  12. #10
    The Natives did as bad or worse to one another before Europeans arrived, some of them also attacked Europeans without just cause, no race is any more or less guilty when it comes to war and slaughter, some of the native tribes were far more savage and bloodthirsty than the Europeans but not than the Europeans' barbarian ancestors, there were tribes that were more peaceful than many of the Europeans.

    The entire subject is no more worth caring about than an attempt to make either the Romans or the Germans the "bad guy" or the "good guy" from our historical perspective or any other peoples from any other place and time, individuals and specific incidents can be judged but even then trying to apply a modern world view without understanding and compensating for the beliefs and cultures of the time is wrong, right and wrong may be constant but the handicapped understanding of them by those involved is not.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 08-29-2017 at 05:18 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    I wonder if he eats a lot of frog legs.
    Maybe his mom wanted a girl.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Natives did as bad or worse to one another before Europeans arrived, some of them also attacked Europeans without just cause, no race is any more or less guilty when it comes to war an slaughter, some of the native tribes were far more savage and bloodthirsty than the Europeans but not than the Europeans' barbarian ancestors, there were tribes that were more peaceful than many of the Europeans.

    The entire subject is no more worth caring about than an attempt to make either the Romans or the Germans the "bad guy" or the "good guy" from our historical perspective or any other peoples from any other place and time, individuals and specific incidents can be judged but even then trying to apply a modern world view without understanding and compensating for the beliefs and cultures of the time is wrong, right and wrong may be constant but the handicapped understanding of them by those involved is not.
    Yup, we've all heard that one before, the false equivalence nonsense some people use to whitewash historical crimes. The Israelis say the Palestinians teenagers threw stones at their bulldozers so that justified the use of white phosphorus on their homes. I didn't buy it when the Israelis made the excuse and I am not buying it from u. One side was clearly in the wrong and I think you know which side I am talking about.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    If you think about it , white europeans probably had better immunities than anyone in the world at the time . They still had not learned to defecate downstream. Those still living were pretty tough sons of bitches .
    I know this has been a long running joke with you HB and Danke since I got to this forums but serious question for a change, are you really native American? Not talking about Elizabeth Warren type Native but are you Full or even half blooded native?

    Just curious

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Yup, we've all heard that one before, the false equivalence nonsense some people use to whitewash historical crimes. The Israelis say the Palestinians teenagers threw stones at their bulldozers so that justified the use of white phosphorus on their homes. I didn't buy it when the Israelis made the excuse and I am not buying it from u. One side was clearly in the wrong and I think you know which side I am talking about.
    Sorry but the Natives did equivalent things to eachother and to the whites, your comparison to throwing rocks is ridiculous.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Yup, we've all heard that one before, the false equivalence nonsense some people use to whitewash historical crimes. The Israelis say the Palestinians teenagers threw stones at their bulldozers so that justified the use of white phosphorus on their homes. I didn't buy it when the Israelis made the excuse and I am not buying it from u. One side was clearly in the wrong and I think you know which side I am talking about.
    I had no idea you were 450 years old...
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I know this has been a long running joke with you HB and Danke since I got to this forums but serious question for a change, are you really native American? Not talking about Elizabeth Warren type Native but are you Full or even half blooded native?

    Just curious
    Are you really Nigerian? or are you lying to us?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I had no idea you were 450 years old...
    I don't get it, what happened 450 yrs ago?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I know this has been a long running joke with you HB and Danke since I got to this forums but serious question for a change, are you really native American? Not talking about Elizabeth Warren type Native but are you Full or even half blooded native?

    Just curious
    My Mother yes , all of my wifes Grandparents yes . We own our land , bought it .We have no reservations here in the state and we will never seek federal recognition or benefits and have no blood quantum requirements . I heard Danke or the Texan have naked pictures of Warren. If Danno had them he would share .

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    My Mother yes , all of my wifes Grandparents yes . We own our land , bought it .We have no reservations here in the state and we will never seek federal recognition or benefits and have no blood quantum requirements . I heard Danke or the Texan have naked pictures of Warren. If Danno had them he would share .
    That is fascinating, I have never talked to a native American before today. And the second line "all of my wife's grandparents yes" is that your way of saying your wife is full blood?

    The last line is a joke right? I hope so cos I don't wanna see Warren naked. That would just worsen my depression. But yea, pass the video on to your folks, I would love to hear their opinion of the presentation. And you too, try and watch it, I would love to hear what you have to say about it post watch

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    That is fascinating, I have never talked to a native American before today. And the second line "all of my wife's grandparents yes" is that your way of saying your wife is full blood?

    The last line is a joke right? I hope so cos I don't wanna see Warren naked. That would just worsen my depression. But yea, pass the video on to your folks, I would love to hear their opinion of the presentation. And you too, try and watch it, I would love to hear what you have to say about it post watch
    Well Warren ought to be better than everyone talking about the obamas nuts .

  24. #21
    Mrs O is a Kentuckian so she barely speaks english and is more wampus cat than human .

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Mrs O is a Kentuckian so she barely speaks english and is more wampus cat than human .
    Just when I thought u were getting serious, you hit me with this

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just when I thought u were getting serious, you hit me with this
    That was serious.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Mrs O is a Kentuckian so she barely speaks english and is more wampus cat than human .
    Well it's a daggum shame Kentuckians let their English slide so.Their forebears produced some of Murica's best literature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    That is fascinating, I have never talked to a native American before today. And the second line "all of my wife's grandparents yes" is that your way of saying your wife is full blood?

    The last line is a joke right? I hope so cos I don't wanna see Warren naked. That would just worsen my depression. But yea, pass the video on to your folks, I would love to hear their opinion of the presentation. And you too, try and watch it, I would love to hear what you have to say about it post watch
    They really aren't hard to find. For a nominal fee I can arrange for you to meet one in person.
    "The Patriarch"

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    They really aren't hard to find. For a nominal fee I can arrange for you to meet one in person.
    In North East Nebraska there are three reservations , Santee Sioux , Omaha and Winnebago and probably others .

  31. #27
    Jules could drive around Santee , little town on the Res of 400 or so , 90 percent Indian . Those reservation Indians are pretty tame , they probably will not scalp him or anything. President Lincoln scared them when he hung all the warriors in the 1860's.

  32. #28
    $#@!.. the fake irish accent guy? I've never heard him make one valid argument against steph, I've watched tons of his videos. He always strawmans his arguments and makes stuff up.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #29
    First 5 minutes are a strawman, I explained why in the first sentence in my post describing Stef's vid.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  34. #30
    Then he uses the UN's legal definition of genocide, which technically could mean if you kill even one person of a race because they are that race then you are committing genocide..

    Stef seems to be using a definition of genocide on the other end of the spectrum that the entire group must be killed, or they are attempting to kill the entire group, for genocide to occur, where genocide is allegedly the act of attempting to kill that group in part or in whole. I guess that brings up an interesting debate about the word genocide. If you are a black gang and you go and kill some members of a Mexican gang, are they committing genocide against Mexicans? That sort of takes away from what most people think of when they think of genocide.

    Semantics of the word genocide aside, the facts he presents in the video regarding the numbers of Native Americans make a strong case that the intentions of the settlers were different than what is portrayed by some modern historians.

    He doesn't provide any additional evidence that the blankets spread the disease (oyarde seems to agree on this point) - but he makes it sound like the evidence is actually quite strong when it is very weak - I'm not convinced it occurred ONCE let-alone a widespread tactic. See Stef's vid on this, because it's not in the response.

    So there could be some debate on the semantical definition of genocide and whether it might apply here, but this guy doesn't really disprove anything Stef says so far and I'm almost half way thru.. time to go walk my dog.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-29-2017 at 07:35 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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