View Poll Results: Should Rand Challenge Trump For The 2020 GOP Nomination?

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  • Yes

    32 61.54%
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    16 30.77%
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    4 7.69%
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Thread: Should Rand Challenge Trump For The 2020 GOP Nomination?

  1. #61

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    Add this to "BRING THEM HOME":
    Afghanistan Wants Russia, Not US to Help Restore Peace in Country - Ambassador

    Let Putin "fill the vacuum".
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Amash may be the best choice. He can articulate the libertarian position with an educational goal, and so much better if he has success. It would raise his visibility. Win-win.
    Amash has become a caricature of a libertarian. He sucks. Massie is the gold standard and even he is wise enough to see the forest and not the trees.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Amash has become a caricature of a libertarian. He sucks. Massie is the gold standard and even he is wise enough to see the forest and not the trees.
    How much does TrumpPac pay?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  5. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    How much does TrumpPac pay?
    I wouldn't know. I do know that Justin Amash has become a buffoon though and that's completely independent of Trump's flaws.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-26-2017 at 09:46 PM.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  6. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I wouldn't know. I do know that Justin Amash has become a buffoon though and that's completely independent of Trump's flaws.
    Ah..

    Does a person who continues the 16 year old, obviously failed war in Afghanistan qualify as a baboon buffoon, in your opinion?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ah..

    Does a person who continues the 16 year failed war in Afghanistan qualify as a baboon buffoon, in your opinion?
    Yes, but so does an infantile congressman who's become an absolute contrarian on all things Trump. It's become petty and predictable.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-26-2017 at 09:52 PM.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  8. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Yes, but so does an infantile congressman who's become an absolute contrarian on all things Trump.
    Which pro-liberty initiatives of Trump...



    Hold on, let me compose myself...

    Right, so, tell me which pro-liberty actions of Trump (a) existed, and (b) were opposed bv Amash.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  9. #68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Which pro-liberty initiatives of Trump...



    Hold on, let me compose myself...

    Right, so, tell me which pro-liberty actions of Trump (a) existed, and (b) were opposed bv Amash.
    I cut loose of Amash when he started pushing an independent commission on the alleged Russian connection. He's so far gone. It's comical now. If he can't decipher Deep State voodoo and maintain a level head, then he's useless. Ron Paul called out the Russian frame job from the start.
    Last edited by AuH20; 08-26-2017 at 10:00 PM.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  10. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    I cut loose of Amash when he started pushing an independent commission on the alleged Russian connection. He's so far gone. It's comical now. If he can't decipher Deep State voodoo and maintain a level head, then he's useless. Ron Paul called out the Russian frame job from the start.
    So, as to anti-liberty actions, none then.

    Right
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    So, as to anti-liberty actions, none then.

    Right
    Don't have a problem with this statement if it's factual and not exaggerated.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/34...-establishment
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  12. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Don't have a problem with this statement if it's factual and not exaggerated.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/house/34...-establishment
    You don't have a problem with someone pointing out that you're full of $#@! and are shilling for the President?

    Good
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post

    Only thing is, and I hate to say it, we have to be selective about who gets to do what when and where. Maybe a grassroots informational/ad based web site detached from this forum, perhaps. One with no platform for public commentary.

    This can't be emphasized enough. You don't always have to open up your social media information to comments. There are times when it should be done, but also times when it should not be done. One of those times is when you simply want people to view your information and only your information. They should walk away from your site thinking about what you are promoting, not some dumb argument they had with an anonymous detractor.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I do think that ID should be required for certain things like carrying a concealed weapon...




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  14. #73

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    If Rand does run again he should use this: Rand Paul 2020 A CLEAR VISION FOR AMERICA
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #74

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    Rand just doesn't possess the personality to win that position.

    It will take a person that never backs down and knows they are correct to win. If not Trey Gowdy somebody like him from a personality perspective.

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Rand just doesn't possess the personality to win that position.

    It will take a person that never backs down and knows they are correct to win. If not Trey Gowdy somebody like him from a personality perspective.
    So only psychopaths can be elected?

    And trustworthy, principled, libertarian psychopaths are readily available to us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So only psychopaths can be elected?

    And trustworthy, principled, libertarian psychopaths are readily available to us?
    Funny you should ask...

    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So only psychopaths can be elected?

    And trustworthy, principled, libertarian psychopaths are readily available to us?
    We do not want a psychopath, they can't be trusted, but we need someone with a confident inspiring "Leader" demeanor, the mass of the public is a herd, they don't respond to teachers, only to leaders.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So only psychopaths can be elected?

    And trustworthy, principled, libertarian psychopaths are readily available to us?
    Are you saying Trey Gowdy is a psychopath?

  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So only psychopaths can be elected?

    And trustworthy, principled, libertarian psychopaths are readily available to us?
    No essentially people who offer what people want, (easy answers for hard questions) you can't win. So basically only demagogues can win because people are too stupid. I think that this is what Ron Paul is talking about when he talks about ideas having power. He is talking about philosophical ideas that can't be unseen by the minds eye, or what I believe is the form of the good.
    Humans are compelled to pursue the good, but no one can hope to do this successfully without philosophical reasoning


    Imagine an election debate between two candidates, one who was like a doctor and the other who was like a sweet shop owner. (its like he watched the debates between Rand Paul and Trump)


    We have given the vote to all without connecting it to that of wisdom. And Socrates knew exactly where that would lead: to a system the Greeks feared above all, demagoguery. We have forgotten all about Socrates’s salient warnings against democracy. We have preferred to think of democracy as an unambiguous good – rather than a process that is only ever as effective as the education system that surrounds it.

    Crucially, Socrates was not elitist in the normal sense. He didn’t believe that a narrow few should only ever vote. He did, however, insist that only those who had thought about issues rationally and deeply should be let near a vote.

    If you were heading out on a journey by sea, asks Socrates, who would you ideally want deciding who was in charge of the vessel? Just anyone or people educated in the rules and demands of seafaring? Socrates’s point is that voting in an election is a skill, not a random intuition. And like any skill, it needs to be taught systematically to people.

    In 399 BC, the philosopher was put on trial on trumped up charges of corrupting the youth of Athens. A jury of 500 Athenians was invited to weigh up the case and decided by a narrow margin that the philosopher was guilty. He was put to death by hemlock in a process which is, for thinking people, every bit as tragic as Jesus’s condemnation has been for Christians.

  21. #80

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    Whether it's a proper strategic move remains to be seen, but Rand is totally incapable of winning the presidency and so is any prominent libertarian. The libertarian movement, and indeed, the entire right wing needs to be torn down and rebuilt, but only after the leaders and devotees study and understand power. No one seems to understand power less than libertarians, and until the root is torn out and replanted, the tree of liberty will always be diseased and malnourished.
    NeoReactionary. Anarcho-Feudalist.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

    Traditionalism is the most revolutionary ideology of our times.

    -Julius Evola


  22. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    No one seems to understand power less than libertarians, and until the root is torn out and replanted, the tree of liberty will always be diseased and malnourished.
    Oh, joy. Now the stormfront brigade is telling us we don't understand power. We understand power just fine, thank you very much. That's why we want to take it out of the hands of the few and spread it as thin as possible. But of course the right racists have no more use for liberty than the left racists. The right racists are giddy because the left racists have succeeded in brainwashing college students of color into begging for the return of segregation. The neo-Nazis are delirious with joy because they finally have the communists on their side, for the first time since 1939. Universal segregation now! Of course, you won't get along any better now than Hitler and Stalin did then. But don't let me stop you from enjoying the moment. Not that I could anyway--getting along with people is hardly your ideal, is it?

    Don't nurse the Tree of Liberty back to health while people still remember how sweet are its fruits. Oh, no! Tear it out by the roots ourselves and see if our new communist and fascist overlords suffer us to grow it from the seed. See, indeed, if they even allow us enough hours in the day off from our slave duties to tend that seedling. See if a whole new generation will come tend our pitiful little seedling when they have never tasted its sweet fruit at all. What sage advice!

    Rand can't win the presidency because sanity is boring. No one pointed a camera at him during his campaign not because his message ran counter to the brainwashing designed to lead us all to slavery, but rather because insanity boosts ratings better. Yeah, we've heard it all, and have been hearing it ever since you turkeys invaded this site during the campaign and drove off our bipartisan coalition of sane people. Repetition does not change the fact that none of you give two $#@!s in a sack about liberty. Repetition does not change the fact that we're not stupid enough to willingly give up what liberties we have left on your empty promise that we might grow some more after five generations of slavery, if only we let you have your evil way now.

    Where the $#@! am I? Tear out the Tree of Liberty. This place followed Alice through the Looking Glass. I look at the RPF banner and I see looking glass letters. What does FPR stand for? Fascist Public Radio? And what would Antifa's non-self-serving advice be? Tear the Tree of Liberty out by the roots. And what would George Soros' non-self-serving advice be? Tear the Tree of Liberty out by the roots. And what would Stalin's non-self-serving advice have been? Tear the Tree of Liberty out by the roots.

    Stop trying to redefine our movement. You are ThePaleoTotalitarian and it's about time you admitted it.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-03-2017 at 08:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

  23. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    We understand power just fine, thank you very much. That's why we want to take it out of the hands of the few and spread it as thin as possible.
    Ye Gods, your lack of self-awareness is astounding. This statement demonstrates that you have no understanding of power. What you just said is the most jejune kind of pro-democracy talking point. It would be totally at home at a Bernie Sanders rally.

    Power always concentrates into few hands. Man is a hierarchical animal. The liberty of the populace needs to benefit the aristocratic class, otherwise, liberty doesn't exist. This is why democracy (and yes, republicanism) always erodes liberty and why monarchy (or other forms of private governance) is the only way to create and maintain it. The incentive structure must be aligned properly.

    But of course the right racists have no more use for liberty than the left racists. The right racists are giddy because the left racists have succeeded in brainwashing college students of color into begging for the return of segregation. The neo-Nazis are delirious with joy because they finally have the communists on their side, for the first time since 1939. Universal segregation now! Of course, you won't get along any better now than Hitler and Stalin did then. But don't let me stop you from enjoying the moment. Not that I could anyway--getting along with people is hardly your ideal, is it?
    Dementia has taken what little was left of your mind, I see. That's the only explanation as to why you'd be bringing any of this up in this discussion, which has nothing to do with neo-nazis or communists.

    Don't nurse the Tree of Liberty back to health while people still remember how sweet are its fruits. Oh, no!
    Yes, let's hear your brilliant strategy on how to get a populace who despises the very concept of liberty to "nurse the tree". You are incapable of a cold, rational power analysis, all you can do is spew platitudes and insult your betters.

    Tear it out by the roots ourselves and see if our new communist and fascist overlords suffer us to grow it from the seed. See, indeed, if they even allow us enough hours in the day off from our slave duties to tend that seedling. See if a whole new generation will come tend our pitiful little seedling when they have never tasted its sweet fruit at all. What sage advice!
    When I say "tear it out", I'm talking about starting from scratch when it comes to political strategy. If you think I'm advocating handing over power to "fascist and communist overlords", you're even dumber than I thought, which is truly an achievement.

    Rand can't win the presidency because sanity is boring. No one pointed a camera at him during his campaign not because his message ran counter to the brainwashing designed to lead us all to slavery, but rather because insanity boosts ratings better. Yeah, we've heard it all, and have been hearing it ever since you turkeys invaded this site during the campaign and drove off our bipartisan coalition of sane people. Repetition does not change the fact that none of you give two $#@!s in a sack about liberty. Repetition does not change the fact that we're not stupid enough to willingly give up what liberties we have left on your empty promise that we might grow some more after five generations of slavery, if only we let you have your evil way now.
    "Yeah, I know libertarians have been completely ineffectual on a political level since at least World War II, but hey, it's everyone else's fault! We don't have to change. We don't have to reevaluate our strategy, even if it does consistently fail. Let's talk about how the media is against us and weren't fair to Ron or Rand! So what if it's never worked before? I'm old and change is hard. I need a nap. Where's my glasses? Nazis! Nazis and communists everywhere!"

    Where the $#@! am I? Tear out the Tree of Liberty. This place followed Alice through the Looking Glass. I look at the RPF banner and I see looking glass letters. What does FPR stand for? Fascist Public Radio? And what would Antifa's non-self-serving advice be? Tear the Tree of Liberty out by the roots. And what would George Soros' non-self-serving advice be? Tear the Tree of Liberty out by the roots. And what would Stalin's non-self-serving advice have been? Tear the Tree of Liberty out by the roots.
    Again, political strategy.

    Stop trying to redefine our movement. You are ThePaleoTotalitarian and it's about time you admitted it.
    I want liberty and civilizational renewal far more than you do. I'm young. I have to live in this society for several more decades. I don't want to live in this rotting husk of a once great civilization, but I'm smart enough to know that what's been tried doesn't $#@!ing work. You, on the other hand, are perfectly content taking potshots at the establishment while being part of an ineffectual movement that sees absolutely no substantial political victories. Do you ever get tired of failure?
    NeoReactionary. Anarcho-Feudalist.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

    Traditionalism is the most revolutionary ideology of our times.

    -Julius Evola


  24. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Ye Gods, your lack of self-awareness is astounding. This statement demonstrates that you have no understanding of power. What you just said is the most jejune kind of pro-democracy talking point. It would be totally at home at a Bernie Sanders rally.
    So would end the fed, end the wars etc., but unlike Sanders, acptulsa actually wants to prevent power from being concentrated, in that, you are more like Sanders and other leftists than acptulsa could ever be.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Power always concentrates into few hands.
    That doesn't make it right.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Man is a hierarchical animal. The liberty of the populace needs to benefit the aristocratic class, otherwise, liberty doesn't exist.
    This is necessarily true, except that it assumes there must be a ruling class. Many of us here believe that all men are created equal.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    This is why democracy (and yes, republicanism) always erodes liberty and why monarchy (or other forms of private governance) is the only way to create and maintain it. The incentive structure must be aligned properly.
    I'm pretty sure I agree with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Dementia has taken what little was left of your mind, I see. That's the only explanation as to why you'd be bringing any of this up in this discussion, which has nothing to do with neo-nazis or communists.
    Then why did you bring up a Bernie Sanders rally?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Yes, let's hear your brilliant strategy on how to get a populace who despises the very concept of liberty to "nurse the tree". You are incapable of a cold, rational power analysis, all you can do is spew platitudes and insult your betters.
    So much irony in this.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    When I say "tear it out", I'm talking about starting from scratch when it comes to political strategy. If you think I'm advocating handing over power to "fascist and communist overlords", you're even dumber than I thought, which is truly an achievement.
    That was not at all clear from your sentence. How did you think we would interpret the phrases "tear out the root" and "tree of liberty" used in the same sentence?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    "Yeah, I know libertarians have been completely ineffectual on a political level since at least World War II, but hey, it's everyone else's fault! We don't have to change. We don't have to reevaluate our strategy, even if it does consistently fail. Let's talk about how the media is against us and weren't fair to Ron or Rand! So what if it's never worked before? I'm old and change is hard. I need a nap. Where's my glasses? Nazis! Nazis and communists everywhere!"
    What makes you think he wants no change in strategy at all, merely because he doesn't support your changes? You are making the same logical fallacy that the socialists make regarding charity.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Again, political strategy.
    Again, not at all clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    I want liberty and civilizational renewal far more than you do.
    How did you measure that?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    I'm young. I have to live in this society for several more decades. I don't want to live in this rotting husk of a once great civilization, but I'm smart enough to know that what's been tried doesn't $#@!ing work. You, on the other hand, are perfectly content taking potshots at the establishment while being part of an ineffectual movement that sees absolutely no substantial political victories. Do you ever get tired of failure?
    Winning for the sake of winning is meaningless. That is what the Trumpists on this site (any who are philosophically libertarian) failed to realize. Victory must achieve something you actually want to achieve. We don't want to achieve racially motivated state power (or almost any state power).
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

    "Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77

    "ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

    "People who place their trust in government don't like competition from charities." - Origanalist

  25. #84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    So would end the fed, end the wars etc., but unlike Sanders, acptulsa actually wants to prevent power from being concentrated, in that, you are more like Sanders and other leftists than acptulsa could ever be.
    Power is fundamentally always concentrated. Constitutions and voting don't limit state power in any discernable way. Good, efficient, limited government is achieved by having the correct incentives in place and the correct dogmas believed.

    That doesn't make it right.
    If it's an inevitable feature of civilization, then it doesn't matter if it's right or not, it needs to be dealt with. It is all of the worst political philosophies that choose their theory when said theory is tested against reality.

    This is necessarily true, except that it assumes there must be a ruling class.
    There must be. Leadership (good or bad) takes certain qualities, that not everyone has. Human hierarchies will always reflect this. The issue at hand is to engineer a system where the rulers err on the side of more liberty, not less like in today's world.

    Many of us here believe that all men are created equal.
    That is simply a falsehood.

    I'm pretty sure I agree with this.
    Okay.

    Then why did you bring up a Bernie Sanders rally?
    Because he was spewing platitudinous pablum that would be at home there or at pretty much any demotic cluster$#@!.

    So much irony in this.
    Is there? Whether you agree with my analysis or not, it is at least analysis. acptulsa is just raving about phantom neo-Nazis and communists, as though that has anything at all to do with the discussion at hand.

    That was not at all clear from your sentence. How did you think we would interpret the phrases "tear out the root" and "tree of liberty" used in the same sentence?
    How is it unclear when I'm specifically talking about Rand and his inability to win the Presidency? This whole thread is about political strategy FFS.

    What makes you think he wants no change in strategy at all, merely because he doesn't support your changes? You are making the same logical fallacy that the socialists make regarding charity.
    Because he talks about how Rand's failures weren't his fault when in large part they absolutely were. Did the media give him a raw deal? Of course they did, but a truly savvy operator would have had some $#@!ing plan in place. Rand failing to produce his father's numbers and indeed, failing to get into $#@!ing double digits are his $#@!ing fault. You can't fix a problem until you accept that there is one.

    If little tulsa has strategic theories, I'd love to hear them. I couls use a good laugh.

    Again, not at all clear.
    See above.

    How did you measure that?
    I'm young, I'm a gun owner, I'm self-employed and I live in the most leftist state in the country. No one wants liberty more than someone in my shoes. I'm going to be living in this country a lot longer than he is.

    Winning for the sake of winning is meaningless. That is what the Trumpists on this site (any who are philosophically libertarian) failed to realize. Victory must achieve something you actually want to achieve. We don't want to achieve racially motivated state power (or almost any state power).
    It's not about winning for its own sake, it's about understanding power so libertarians can actually make intelligent strategic choices and get things to improve, even a little. I'm trying to play chess, while tulsa just wants to flip the board and yell about how the opposing player is a bad man and how he's surrounded by Nazis. Listening to rubes like him os what got the movement in such a sorry state.
    NeoReactionary. Anarcho-Feudalist.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

    Traditionalism is the most revolutionary ideology of our times.

    -Julius Evola


  26. #85

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    Ye Gods, your lack of self-awareness is astounding. This statement demonstrates that you have no understanding of power. What you just said is the most jejune kind of pro-democracy talking point. It would be totally at home at a Bernie Sanders rally.
    I have a lack of self awareness, yet you are on a libertarian website screaming that we should let you and your ilk set up some sort of collectivist kaiser because the concept of spreading power out among the many is Bernie Sanders socialism. Buddy, Bernie Sanders is The Man Who Would Be King. In that respect, you are Bernie Sanders.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    "Yeah, I know libertarians have been completely ineffectual on a political level since at least World War II, but hey, it's everyone else's fault! We don't have to change. We don't have to reevaluate our strategy, even if it does consistently fail.
    Failure is a relative term. Our band has slowed the march of tyranny from time to time. And your grumpy band of segregationists? The second half of the Twentieth Century was a string of unmitigated failures for the lot of you. Never in history has your brand of collectivism suffered more spectacular setbacks in terms of policy. In fact, the greatest gains your brand of feudalism have seen since Reconstruction have come at the hands of your mortal enemies, who have of late been convincing minorities they don't want to hang with you, and accomplishing the segregation you drooled over for a century by relegating white college students to the ghetto dorms.

    And you sit here screaming like a bad characture of a fascist pedagogue about how we're ineffective? Got news, bub. You're not only totally ineffective, but we're among the overwhelming majority of the people of the world who are damned glad you're totally ineffective.

    Now. What the $#@! makes you think your totalitarian would-be kingmaking ass has anything in common with us; have any strategies we would care use, thus setting aside all our principles so we can go down in flames as your ilk always, always does; have anything in common with us at all? So why are you here again? If you're getting paid for plaguing us, that's one thing. But if you're just trolling us to make it easy for the mainstream media to slander us by accusing us of being you, then I guess your political ineffectiveness isn't just the inherent ugliness of the way you'd sacrifice all peace, prosperity, beauty, reason and everything else on the altar of racism. I guess part of it is the lot of you are too stupid to realize when you are trolling in a place where you'll never make friends, and too stupid to avoid aiding your strongest enemies by feeding them the enemies who are doing you far, far less harm.

    Because for all you lecture us about how stupid and ineffective we are, you people have exactly one power. One and only one. Like a person with bad body funk, you can completely isolate anyone--just by hanging out with them. At least we aren't you people.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-04-2017 at 11:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    'An SEP is something we can't see, or don't see, or our brain doesn't let us see, because we think that it's somebody else's problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it's like a blind spot.'
    This government is Not Somebody Else's Problem

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