View Poll Results: Should Rand Challenge Trump For The 2020 GOP Nomination?

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  • Yes

    32 61.54%
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    16 30.77%
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Thread: Should Rand Challenge Trump For The 2020 GOP Nomination?

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  1. #1

    Should Rand Challenge Trump For The 2020 GOP Nomination?




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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Dump needs pressure to keep him from drifting left even if we don't win.

    Here is my list of who should run:
    https://www.thenewamerican.com/freedom-index
    Idaho

    Dist.1: Raul Labrador - 91%

    Kentucky

    Sen. Rand Paul - 93%

    Dist.4: Thomas Massie - 98%

    Utah

    Sen. Mike Lee - 92%

    Michigan

    Dist.3: Justin Amash - 94%


    I am open to suggestions.
    ...
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Paul/Massie 2020
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    This is 2017, wrong question at the wrong time.

    At this stage, RP should stay clear of any such public talk and focus on "serving people" and even strategically where feasible push Trump to expose/scrutinize/weaken fakenews media, neocon lobbies, ISIS's founding father's political slave masters etc.





    Related

    Rand Paul: Let's Destroy ISIS — Not the Constitution
    time.com/4140983/rand-paul-isis-constitution/

    Rand Ties Benghazi Annex to Gun Running to Syria


    Rand Paul: "Look Where ISIS Gets Its Weapons From"
    Nov 6, 2015

    Trump Ends Covert Obama-era CIA Program Which Sent Arms To Jihadists





    Days after Kissinger warned against removing ISIS, it claims Spain Van attack killing 13

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    This is 2017
    The general election will be November 2020.

    The party conventions will be summer 2020.

    The primaries will start at the end of 2019.

    People will announce their candidacy summer of 2019.

    People planning to run will need to make a decision (privately) in the spring of 2019, at the latest.

    That gives us about a year and a half.

  7. #6
    Yes. Challenge every single time possible. Every single time. You can't win if you never learn how to lose nice and good. Lose over and over and over and over and over again until you win. Maybe you won't ever win. But don't say you didn't try to win every single chance you had the opportunity to try.

    He's got my money and efforts.

    And really we should have some kind of elevated site-wide effort kind of like the good old days when Ron was in it.

    Only thing is, and I hate to say it, we have to be selective about who gets to do what when and where. Maybe a grassroots informational/ad based web site detached from this forum, perhaps. One with no platform for public commentary. We have people with mad skills here who can get it done right. Maybe try to train and send competent delegates nation-wide again.

    Sorry, that's my view on it. But we're often our biggest liability. We don't always act right. And I'm included in that. I'm no angel either, admittedly.

    I've linked friends to our site only to have them come back at me that they thought we were a bunch of anti-government, reckless, vigilante, cowboys, after only reading a few posts here. They kind of got scared away because they thought that Rand and Ron thought the way random people do on the Internet. Crazy stuff.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 08-22-2017 at 06:57 PM.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post

    Only thing is, and I hate to say it, we have to be selective about who gets to do what when and where. Maybe a grassroots informational/ad based web site detached from this forum, perhaps. One with no platform for public commentary.

    This can't be emphasized enough. You don't always have to open up your social media information to comments. There are times when it should be done, but also times when it should not be done. One of those times is when you simply want people to view your information and only your information. They should walk away from your site thinking about what you are promoting, not some dumb argument they had with an anonymous detractor.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  9. #8
    A pipe dream. What evidence has shown he has any willingness or can expand his level of support and popularity?
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.



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  11. #9
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


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    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    A pipe dream. What evidence has shown he has any willingness or can expand his level of support and popularity?
    Exactly. Rand is too squishy to make a run at Trump. He's been branded. I wish there was someone in the political realm with the fire and record to take Trump on, but that person doesn't exist at the moment.

  12. #10
    Two morons said NO.

    Pitiful.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    @r3volution 3.0,

    Yes. That said, with Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Mark Zuckerberg, and possibly Chris Kennedy. I reckon that Trump would be the least of his concerns.
    "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever." - Founding Father Thomas Jefferson

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by uncharted View Post
    @r3volution 3.0,

    Yes. That said, with Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Mark Zuckerberg, and possibly Chris Kennedy. I reckon that Trump would be the least of his concerns.
    One battle at a time, gotta win the primary first.

    Just ask Jeb.

  15. #13
    If there are any other challengers, then absolutely he should. If it means stepping up to Donald Trump one on one, well, that's a choice Rand will have to make. Does he want to spend his political capital that way? If he thinks it is a good decision, I'd support him without hesitation.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If there are any other challengers, then absolutely he should. If it means stepping up to Donald Trump one on one, well, that's a choice Rand will have to make. Does he want to spend his political capital that way? If he thinks it is a good decision, I'd support him without hesitation.
    He should do it even if he is the only challenger. Hell, he should do it especially if he is the only challenger. If there are multiple challengers then Rand will be seen as just another "establishment republican." If he is the only challenger then he will reclaim the title of "anti-establishment" from that phony, pro war, anti liberty, pro asset forfeiture, race baiting, toupee' wearing, smirking, loudmouthed, jackass, POS, POTUS we currently have. The liberty movement will not survive another 4 years of Donald J. Trump. I seriously wish Steve Bannon were president instead of Trump. In doing all of my research I have found zero evidence that Steve Bannon is racist. Post Charlottesville Steve Bannon simply called the nazi thugs "clowns" and said the left is engaging in "identity politics." Had Trump said that, this Charlottesville nonsense would be over. Steve Bannon in that same interview said that a military option against North Korea is unthinkable because North Korea's conventional arsenal could wipe out our armed forces in South Korea. The only way to take out North Korea would be to withdraw our forces from South Korea first. Guess what? He's freaking right! Trump got rid of the only sensible person in his entire cabinet. The time for going along with Trump because he's "sticking it to the establishment" IS OVER! He is doing more damage to us and our brand than he is doing to the establishment. Wake up and smell the tyranny.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #15
    Yes, without question or hesitation.

  18. #16
    Not if he's going to support creating new nations and arming other established nations, like last go 'round.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Not if he's going to support creating new nations and arming other established nations, like last go 'round.
    Was/Is he better than Dump?

    If you find someone better than Rand who will run let me know.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Was/Is he better than Dump?

    If you find someone better than Rand who will run let me know.
    Yes, he was better than Trump.

    However, merely being better than Trump isn't reason enough to support him in a primary challenge. He needs to be radically different for enough people to attach themselves to his candidacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    Yes, he was better than Trump.

    However, merely being better than Trump isn't reason enough to support him in a primary challenge. He needs to be radically different for enough people to attach themselves to his candidacy.
    The point is to pressure Dump to move our direction even if we lose, and if we win any improvement is better than none, certainly better than what the Demoncrats will put up in 2020.

    Like I said if you find someone better than Rand to run let me know.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The point is to pressure Dump to move our direction even if we lose, and if we win any improvement is better than none, certainly better than what the Demoncrats will put up in 2020.

    Like I said if you find someone better than Rand to run let me know.
    Merely being better than Trump isn't going to bring Ron supporters over to Rand. Many of whom were attracted to Ron not because of his libertarianism, but his contrarian, anti-establishment position in the GOP. Those people didn't join up with Rand, and neither did the establishment of the GOP; expecting Rand to do any better against a sitting president in his own party without those types is a fool's errand.

    If being better than Trump is the standard, you might as well throw your support behind whatever schmuck the Libertarian Party will nominate this cycle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  24. #21
    Much can happen between now and then, but someone I respect once stated "Let it not be said that we did nothing." Rand should listen to this remarkable individual.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Much can happen between now and then, but someone I respect once stated "Let it not be said that we did nothing." Rand should listen to this remarkable individual.
    One doesn't have to run for president in order to be doing something. He does plenty in his role as senator and given the way he was treated even by those that should have supported him last time, I wouldn't blame him one bit for not wanting to waste his time.

  26. #23
    Well, there are a limited number of things that sell to the ignorant voters, and it has to be short and simple (vulgar is fine).

    - Call everyone else names, insult all other candidates.
    - Free sh!t for everyone, tax the rich to do it.
    - America first, limited immigration.
    - Big globalist government with open borders.
    - Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.
    - Israel first.
    - Kill all the white people.

    Which ones should Rand run on? Randomly going through the whole list might work.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Well, there are a limited number of things that sell to the ignorant voters, and it has to be short and simple (vulgar is fine).

    - Call everyone else names, insult all other candidates.
    - Free sh!t for everyone, tax the rich to do it.
    - America first, limited immigration.
    - Big globalist government with open borders.
    - Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.
    - Israel first.
    - Kill all the white people.

    Which ones should Rand run on? Randomly going through the whole list might work.
    I appreciate your cynicism, I do - I'm chocked full of it - but it's still possible (if an uphill battle) to win on other issues.

    And, in any event, let me ask you this: what do we have to lose?



    And as Swordsmyth points out, we can win even without winning; we can change the narrative.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-22-2017 at 08:13 PM.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    And as Swordsmyth points out, we can win even without winning; we can change the narrative.
    The current political narrative and climate won't be changed if Rand reprises his last run. The establishment isn't going to back him unless he fully sells out (and even then, why not just back someone who has been with them for years or decades?), in which case every one of us would be gone, and the anti-establishment isn't going for Rand unless he sheds his whole persona for 2020 - and those who value consistency would be suspicious of such a change, anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul
    Perhaps the most important lesson from Obamacare is that while liberty is lost incrementally, it cannot be regained incrementally. The federal leviathan continues its steady growth; sometimes boldly and sometimes quietly. Obamacare is just the latest example, but make no mistake: the statists are winning. So advocates of liberty must reject incremental approaches and fight boldly for bedrock principles.
    The epitome of libertarian populism

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Feeding the Abscess View Post
    The current political narrative and climate won't be changed if Rand reprises his last run. The establishment isn't going to back him unless he fully sells out (and even then, why not just back someone who has been with them for years or decades?), in which case every one of us would be gone, and the anti-establishment isn't going for Rand unless he sheds his whole persona for 2020 - and those who value consistency would be suspicious of such a change, anyway.
    The establishment is never going to back him under any circumstances whatever, because his goal is to burn them to the ground.

    The "anti-establishment" is mostly a rather confused floating vote that could potentially go with Rand.

    The nationalists err if they think they own "anti-establishment"; as we did in the past, before the nationalists took it from us.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Well, there are a limited number of things that sell to the ignorant voters, and it has to be short and simple (vulgar is fine).

    - Call everyone else names, insult all other candidates.
    - Free sh!t for everyone, tax the rich to do it.
    - America first, limited immigration.
    - Big globalist government with open borders.
    - Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.
    - Israel first.
    - Kill all the white people.

    Which ones should Rand run on? Randomly going through the whole list might work.
    THE issue is "BRING THEM HOME"
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    THE issue is "BRING THEM HOME"
    That'll get about 5%.

    There is no more anti-war left, and the anti-war right is small.

    But "no nation building" is close, and that's pretty popular.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    There is no more anti-war left...
    Now that they aren't motivated to give Obama cover, and now that the sitting president has finally gone full neocon, it's about to be rekindled.

    Between that and the fact that we know we can make hay with them arguing that local governments do a better job of helping people than the federal government does, also especially when Republicans are in control in Washington, we can seriously gain traction on that side of the aisle.

    Seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That'll get about 5%.
    And if there are seventeen candidates running in the Democratic primaries? Trump won the first few he took with about six percent of the total population in those states. He did. We can totally work with a number like that.

    There won't be seventeen candidates trying to primary Trump. But if they try to rat$#@! Democrats the way they ratfucked Republicans, by running seventeen candidates in the primaries so the craziest faction wins, then we can totally throw it to the superdelegates with six percent of the population of Iowa. If Trump can do it, we can sure as hell do it.

    I know all the former Democrats who came to Ron Paul got run off by official and unofficial means during this last election, and most of the people who are not currently afraid to log in here would rather eat glass than even talk to Democrats. But you see the words I typed here. We need numbers. We desperately need the people who are as alienated from this Brave New Antifa Left as we are from the neocons. And we can damned well get them, if we try. I'm damned if we can't.

    Antiwar, anti-corruption, anti-violence Democrats. We can work with them. Tulsi Gabbard deserves us, and we deserve the allies we'd befriend in the process.

    Come on you lurkers, you people who have been afraid to log in since Bryan and Brian made us stop being mean to racists, you people who saw the handwriting on the wall and spent a cycle reluctantly pulling for Sanders because of the Wicked Witch of the West. You remember your password. Chime in here. Look at this pile of lameness...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...to-run-in-2020

    ...and chime in!
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-22-2017 at 09:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Now that they aren't motivated to give Obama cover, and now that the sitting president has finally gone full neocon, [the anti-war left is] about to be rekindled.

    Between that and the fact that we know we can make hay with them arguing that local governments do a better job of helping people than the federal government does, also especially when Republicans are in control in Washington, we can seriously gain traction on that side of the aisle.

    Seriously.

    ...

    We desperately need the people who are as alienated from this Brave New Antifa Left as we are from the neocons.
    Sound points

    Come on you lurkers, you people who have been afraid to log in since Bryan and Brian made us stop being mean to racists, you people who saw the handwriting on the wall and spent a cycle reluctantly pulling for Sanders because of the Wicked Witch of the West. You remember your password. Chime in here. Look at this pile of lameness...

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...to-run-in-2020

    ...and chime in!
    Seconded

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