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Thread: Chinese automaker looking to buy Chrysler/Jeep from Fiat

  1. #1

    Exclamation Chinese automaker looking to buy Chrysler/Jeep from Fiat

    Chinese Automaker’s Bid for Jeep Raises National Security Concerns

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...rity-concerns/

    AFP

    by John Carney22 Aug 2017

    A Chinese automaker kicking the tires at Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and its most profitable asset, Jeep, is raising alarms and could run into strong opposition from the U.S. government.

    China’s Great Wall Motor Company on Monday said it was interested in buying Jeep from Fiat Chrysler. It’s not yet clear whether Great Wall has already submitted a bid for Fiat Chrysler’s Jeep or whether one is being prepared. Fiat Chrysler said on Monday that it had “not been approached by Great Wall in connection with the Jeep brand or any other matter relating to its business.”

    Any attempt to sell Jeep to the Chinese could be scuttled by the Trump administration. Critics of Chinese economic ambitions in the U.S. are already saying the deal should be blocked.

    “It cannot possibly be in America’s interest for China’s Communist government and companies associated with it to win a larger footprint in the U.S. economy,” said Alan Tonelson, an economist and founder of the Reality Chek blog.

    “I think the United States should look long and hard before allowing such a deal to go forward as I think Chinese style state guided and state run capitalism does not necessary mesh well with U.S. free market capitalism,” said Clyde Prestowitz, president of the Economic Strategy Institute.

    One concern is that the deal could be used to capture U.S. technology.

    “Given that U.S. car companies have been prohibitted from either setting up a factory in China without doing a joint venture with a Chinese company and are for all intents and purposes prohibited from buying Chinese companies as majority shareholder and that Chinese companies use purchases of U.S. companies to take technology back to China, this, in my view, would be a bad deal for the U.S.,” said Rob Atkinson, president of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation.

    Some say the deal could be killed because it raises national security concerns. The acquisition would likely be assessed by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the U.S., a panel that oversees foreign mergers and investments to determine if they pose a threat to national security.

    “I cannot imagine this making it past CIFIUS. It would probably be be stopped on the grounds that it would transfer important U.S. technology into Chinese hands,” said a Washington D.C. trade lawyer who has successfully overseen deals approved by the committee.

    Atkinson was not sure CIFIUS would block the deal.

    “Given that this does not appear to involve national security, it’s not clear what legal tool the Trump administration could use to block it, other than public pressure,” he said.

    The idea is even receiving a skeptical reception from inside Fiat Chrysler.

    “Can you actually imagine us selling to China while Donald Trump is in the White House?” one senior company official told the Financial Times.

    It is likely that Great Wall would have to turn to the Chinese government or the banks it controls for funding. On its own, Great Wall is far to0 small to fund the acquisition. But any explicit role by the Chinese government in the acquisition could ring alarm bells on Capitol Hill.

    Fiat Chrysler’s attempt to find a buyer for itself has mostly ended in dead-ends. The company was rebuffed when it reached out to General Motors in 2015. Volkswagen has also shown no interest, particularly after its recent emissions scandals.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11



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  3. #2
    NO!!!!
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  4. #3
    Fiat Chrysler’s attempt to find a buyer for itself has mostly ended in dead-ends.
    Why is it looking for buyers? Is it not profitable?

    Or are executives just looking to cash out at the expense of shareholders, employees, customers and the nation?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Why is it looking for buyers? Is it not profitable?

    Or are executives just looking to cash out at the expense of shareholders, employees, customers and the nation?
    The latter:

    From 1st quarter 2017

    Fiat Chrysler quarterly profits rise 34% to $698 million

    http://www.freep.com/story/money/car...ion/100904900/

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The latter:

    From 1st quarter 2017

    Fiat Chrysler quarterly profits rise 34% to $698 million

    http://www.freep.com/story/money/car...ion/100904900/
    A downside of public corporations with disinterested management. Businesses operate best when the leadership has more of a motivation than pure self-enrichment. Most businesses do not survive the death of the founder. It is the founder that has the vision, and is truly motivated for the success of the business.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    A downside of public corporations with disinterested management. Businesses operate best when the leadership has more of a motivation than pure self-enrichment. Most businesses do not survive the death of the founder. It is the founder that has the vision, and is truly motivated for the success of the business.
    Should I wait until someone holds this up as an example of why socialism is better than capitalism, or should I go ahead and point out now that the majority stockholder in Fiat from 1921 was the Italian government?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Should I wait until someone holds this up as an example of why socialism is better than capitalism, or should I go ahead and point out now that the majority stockholder in Fiat from 1921 was the Italian government?
    Actually it's an example of why socialism is always bad, whether it is government socialism, or the type of socialism that exists at large publicly owned corporations.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Should I wait until someone holds this up as an example of why socialism is better than capitalism, or should I go ahead and point out now that the majority stockholder in Fiat from 1921 was the Italian government?
    Exor is the Italian government?

    Exor N.V. is a leading[3] investment company, incorporated in The Netherlands and now controlled by Italy's Agnelli family. It has a capitalization of over $13 billion USD, with a history of investments running over a century. Its principal investments include Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, CNH Industrial and Ferrari.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exor_(company)
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Exor is the Italian government?
    No.

    1. Just because Fiat is a principal investment of Exor does not mean Exor is the principal investor in FiatChrysler.

    2. I did say Fiat, not FiatChrysler. Chrysler represents enough of that company, and Chrysler stockholders wound up with enough FiatChrysler stock, that the equation has changed.

    3. The Italian government has not been announcing any divestitures it may have been making lately, so far as I can tell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No.

    1. Just because Fiat is a principal investment of Exor does not mean Exor is the principal investor in FiatChrysler.

    2. I did say Fiat, not FiatChrysler. Chrysler represents enough of that company, and Chrysler stockholders wound up with enough FiatChrysler stock, that the equation has changed.

    3. The Italian government has not been announcing any divestitures it may have been making lately, so far as I can tell.
    Exor is the largest shareholder of FCA through its 29.19 percent shareholding interest in our issued common shares (as of February 27, 2015). See “The FCA Merger.” Exor also purchased U.S.$886 million (€730 million) in aggregate notional amount of mandatory convertible securities that were issued in December 2014 (see Note 23 of the Consolidated financial statements included elsewhere in this report). As a result of the loyalty voting mechanism, Exor’s voting power is approximately 44.31 percent.

    Consequently, Exor could strongly influence all matters submitted to a vote of FCA shareholders, including approval of annual dividends, election and removal of directors and approval of extraordinary business combinations.

    Exor is controlled by Giovanni Agnelli e C. S.a.p.az., (“G.A.”) which holds 51.39 percent of its share capital. G.A. is a limited partnership with interests represented by shares (Societa’ in Accomandita per Azioni), founded by Giovanni Agnelli and currently held by members of the Agnelli and Nasi families, descendants of Giovanni Agnelli, founder of Fiat. Its present principal business activity is to purchase, administer and dispose of equity interests in public and private entities and, in particular, to ensure the cohesion and continuity of the administration of its controlling equity interests. The managing directors of G.A. are John Elkann, Tiberto Brandolini d’Adda, Alessandro Nasi, Andrea Agnelli, Gianluigi Gabetti, Gianluca Ferrero, Luca Ferrero de’ Gubernatis Ventimiglia and Maria Sole Agnelli.
    "Giovanni Agnelli, founder of Fiat". Now that's the kind of fully vested founder I was talking about. His descendents seem to have been able to hold it together until now. But they are probably just trying to unload Jeep/Chrysler, because they don't have that founding-style loyalty to that portion of the conglomerate.

    I don't see that the Italian government was ever an owner of Fiat, unless Mussolini nationalized it for a period.

    Chrysler on the other, was owned by the US and Canadian governments after they went bankrupt and were bailed out.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    That's not how Italy worked. The fascism became institutionalized, and didn't really end until the 1990s.

    Perhaps 'majority stockholder' is a poor way to describe how Italy privatized profits and subsidized losses. Try this on for size:

    http://www.nber.org/chapters/c10273.pdf

    The results of our analysis can be explained as the joint effect of laws and politics on the Italian financial market. During the beginning of the cen- tury, Italian capitalism was characterized by a limited and indirect inter- vention of the government in the economy and in the stock market. The Great Depression forced the government to intervene on a much larger scale because the crisis led to the collapse of Italy’s three main investment banks. Since then, the government has maintained a direct role in the econ- omy by bailing out companies in trouble, as well as by controlling compa- nies, especially in capital-intensive sectors.

    Direct intervention by the state as an entrepreneur partially replaced and crowded out the role of the private sector in the accumulation of capi- tal. Since the state took a direct and massive role in allocating capital, Italian legislators did not consider the improvement of investor protection important for Italy. This is at odds with the experience of countries such as the United States, where the government faced similar challenges to those of Italy but chose to intervene as a regulator of capital markets rather than as a substitute. In an environment with no regulatory reforms, and frequent direct intervention by the state, Italian stock market activity declined in the 1950s and 1960s to a level lower than that of the early twentieth century.

    With low investor protection and underdeveloped capital markets, new entrepreneurs found it very expensive to go public. Conversely, incumbent groups thrived in the market by allying themselves with politicians. During the fascist regime, autarchy protected them from foreign imports. By the postwar period, family capitalism firmly controlled the Italian economy. Important families enjoyed both economic and political power, which was transmitted from generation to generation. New publicly traded family groups seldom emerged. When they did, it was always due to strong political connections.

    In this environment the majority of Italian firms stayed away from the stock market, were closely held by the founders’ families, and operated on a relatively small scale in niche markets. Family-controlled pyramidal groups and state-controlled conglomerates dominated the stock market. Because poor investor protection made Italian stock market unattractive, investors preferred to invest in government bonds rather than in equities.

    To finance the costs of its active role in the economy, the government increased taxation and public debt. Eventually, public debt soared out of control, and in the 1990s the government engaged in a sweeping privatiza- tion program in an effort to reduce this debt. The government coupled the sale of assets with substantial improvement of the legal protection for minority shareholders. These changes made going public more appealing...
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-22-2017 at 03:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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