What exactly is America?

[Swordsmyth]

Given that; what then does it mean to be American?

A belief in Liberty and GOD given rights which were imperfectly embodied in the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist papers, the Anti-Federalist papers, the Articles of Confederation the Constitution and the Bill of rights. And going farther back into our ancestral heritage the Magna Charta and Saxon common law along with some Roman law. We are also a Christian nation with an imperfect history of religious tolerance that few other cultures have matched.
There are other incidental cultural elements like apple pie. baseball, football, etc. but they are unimportant.

[otherone]

A belief in Liberty and GOD given rights which were imperfectly embodied in the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist papers, the Anti-Federalist papers, the Articles of Confederation the Constitution and the Bill of rights. And going farther back into our ancestral heritage the Magna Charta and Saxon common law along with some Roman law. We are also a Christian nation with an imperfect history of religious tolerance that few other cultures have matched.
There are other incidental cultural elements like apple pie. baseball, football, etc. but they are unimportant.

So what you are saying then, is what unifies a redneck in Baton Rouge with a meth addict in Portland is shared values, as embodied in America's founding documents?

BTW, I started this topic after reading this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ist-America-is

The word "America" and "American" is used as if it has an unspoken definition

[Swordsmyth]

So what you are saying then, is what unifies a redneck in Baton Rouge with a meth addict in Portland is shared values, as embodied in America's founding documents?

Like I said:

Our culture has been only partially homogeneous from the beginning, the south never should have joined the union with the Yankees in the first place, and it has been deliberately attacked to cause greater division, we are sorely in need of CALExit (Minus the red counties), MASSExit, NYCsession, NJExit etc.

We are Americans, any one who does not believe in what I said is not one.

[otherone]

Like I said:



We are Americans, any one who does not believe in what I said is not one.

Thank you for your input.

[Raginfridus]

If you feel that way you should move to Greenland.

If I felt that way, I wouldn't have made a joke of it.

[oyarde]

There are very few americans 110 yrs ago that would recognize the lowly avg american today . This is even including the fact that they were not really very bright . Even though they were not bright they would still recognize the list of things lacking today by the peasantry that was once common . Independence , continual effort , initiative , personal responsibility etc .These things are gone . They will not be coming back until society collapses and then it will be ugly .

[oyarde]

So , America , never really all that great , well the best parts of it are gone . Those are replaced with unjust taxes , welfare , food stamps and other tomfoolery.

[oyarde]

You are left with two americas . Six in ten Americans work , of those , three pay more federal tax than the benefits they receive , So you can be the American that pays for the others or the american that gets free $#@! . None of that sounds very american to me .

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I'm an Americant.

[helmuth_hubener]

A country is defined by its people. Also by its land (geography, climate, topography, animals) to a lesser extent. But most especially by its people.

America has been predominantly defined by an original stock that was particularly hard-working, disciplined, hardy, and adventurous. The extremity of the American situation made the hardiness a requirement, of course, as he was a stern executioner of all who did not meet his exacting standards. The nature of the migrations made for very tight-knit, homogeneous settlements with unusually high mutual trust. Imagine the tiny community of Massachusets Bay Colony after living through 100 winters together.

High trust is the life-blood of civilization, and so this spawned one of the highest civilizations known, and perhaps history still yet may label it as *the* highest civilization of all... if we save and rehabilitate it, that is, for there shall be no historians after the collapse. We reached up to the Moon itself. Our Anglo ambition was boundless, our optimism -- and our grit to accomplish it! -- knew no limits.

I am not a believer in American Exceptionalism. But there certainly does seem to have been something special about America. Even the casual student of history cannot mistake it. But to define it, one should look to earlier attempts: to Tocqueville, for instance, to Jefferson, to the very journals of the pilgrims and the pioneers. There, you will find the more undiluted spirit, the more pure essence, still alive.

How does one keep the Frontier Spirit when one runs out of frontier? My hard-nosed and unwelcome conclusion is: one can't. There is no substitute.

And so how do we define America? If it is to have a future as itself, very simply. In one word:

Astrodamai

Not sailors only, but pioneers, colonists, settlers, tamers of the stars. White, Christian settlers, by the way. That is a very important part of who we are as a people.

[Swordsmyth]

There are very few americans 110 yrs ago that would recognize the lowly avg american today . This is even including the fact that they were not really very bright . Even though they were not bright they would still recognize the list of things lacking today by the peasantry that was once common . Independence , continual effort , initiative , personal responsibility etc .These things are gone . They will not be coming back until society collapses and then it will be ugly .

So , America , never really all that great , well the best parts of it are gone . Those are replaced with unjust taxes , welfare , food stamps and other tomfoolery.

You are left with two americas . Six in ten Americans work , of those , three pay more federal tax than the benefits they receive , So you can be the American that pays for the others or the american that gets free $#@! . None of that sounds very american to me .

[Danke]

AF running off to spend the night with the RVs at Walmart's parking lot.

...

[Natural Citizen]

It's talked about, it's written about.
The idea of "America" is considered axiomatic.
Activities and words are deemed "American" or "Un-American".
What defines "America"? How are Americans linked?

What does it mean?

Basically just a common sense understanding of the sentiments expressed in the Declaration.

Problem is that it's far easier to just reject the founding documents completely when there exists a shortcoming in the uderstanding of the significance of the Twin Revolution.

[Anti Federalist]

What defines "America"?

There used to be a distinct "American" set of ideals all roughly defined by the concept that an American was entitled to nothing more than a "fair shake", that they would be more or less free to do what they wished with a minimum amount of interference from government or other people.

Maybe somebody else can help me, years ago there were a set of videos, I believe produced by JBS, that laid out these basic ideas, or some of the Capra "Why We Fight" films from WWII for example, can somebody post them for me? Thanks.

Granted, these were "propaganda" films I suppose, but anything can be labeled thus. Point is, the general ideals and principles were what defined America, and this was reinforced in the public sphere, in schools, in churches, in fraternal organizations, in community celebrations, traditions, holidays and so on. Yes, even in statues and art.

And most Americans, more or less, believed in those things.

That is no longer the case.

You are seeing the last of that being swept away as we speak.

How are Americans linked?

They are not. I share no common bond, no common purpose, no common ideals, no common politics, no common heritage with, oh, I'd say roughly 80 percent of the American people today. And they have none with me. In fact, based on what I have seen over the last year, a goodish chunk of them want me, my family and my history dead.

We're a Balkanized mob, all connected 24/7 to our electronic hate machines, able to communicate anywhere on the planet with anybody at any time, with not a $#@!ing thing to say to one another, and lacking the common courtesy once that is clear, to just walk the $#@! away and leave the other guy free to do as he wishes, because everybody has a stick up their ass and a chip on their shoulder about every stupid, petty and insignificant thing in life, because on a personal level, a gut check level, they know they are becoming superfluous and unneeded and are scared about it.

What does it mean?

The end of America as a political body.

It is ungovernable, unmanageable and broke beyond the ability to ever pay back.

Secession and separation.

Failing that, war, upheaval and genocide, more than likely.

[Natural Citizen]

And most Americans, more or less, believed in those things.

That is no longer the case.

I'm in agreement that basic comprehension of those traditional American principles and values has been lost. As a consequence there cannot and will not exist any loyalty to that heritage. And certainly the ability is lost to fulfill the duty as temporary trustees of it for future generations.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

It's talked about, it's written about.
The idea of "America" is considered axiomatic.
Activities and words are deemed "American" or "Un-American".
What defines "America"? How are Americans linked?

What does it mean?

White Anglo Saxon Protestants, their culture, values, mythos, telos, etc.

More over, this deconstructionists of "what is x", how is Y really Y is just naval gazing.

Anything that undermines a nation, its rightful owners IE its people (founding stock and posterity) their rights, wealth, political, national, and personal sovereignty regardless of intent is un-American, full stop.

[RestorationOfLiberty]

America- like life- is what you make of it. It means different things to everybody.

So it can be a Arab Wabisit, honor killing is daughter because she looked a boy? Yeah, NO.

[specsaregood]

They were too weak to last here .

Some say they made it all the way to MN.

[oyarde]

Some say they made it all the way to MN.

Looks like Douglas County , Minn was the last stop for those 30 mentioned on the Kensington Rune Stone . Some serious loafing must have been going on to allow those barbarians to reach that far .

[helmuth_hubener]

How are Americans linked?

They are not. I share no common bond, no common purpose, no common ideals, no common politics, no common heritage with, oh, I'd say roughly 80 percent of the American people today. And they have none with me. In fact, based on what I have seen over the last year, a goodish chunk of them want me, my family and my history dead.

We're a Balkanized mob, all connected 24/7 to our electronic hate machines, able to communicate anywhere on the planet with anybody at any time, with not a $#@!ing thing to say to one another, and lacking the common courtesy once that is clear, to just walk the $#@! away and leave the other guy free to do as he wishes, because everybody has a stick up their ass and a chip on their shoulder about every stupid, petty and insignificant thing in life, because on a personal level, a gut check level, they know they are becoming superfluous and unneeded and are scared about it.

You are making the situation sound more complex ("Balkanized") than it really is.

Actually, there are just two main sides to this. There is the Historic American Nation. And then there is the Totalitarian Left, the CTRL-Left let us say, and their hordes of dark-minded peasant pawns. That's it. Just those two sides. There are always many esoteric agendas and many fights going on when you have enough people (and 300 million is enough, believe me). But only those two sides matter. Those are the only sides of importance. Let me quote Peter Brimelow, a smart man:

We have a Totalitarian Left in this country. We saw them outside today. And they really believed that they were all on the brink of knocking out the Historic American Nation—the American Nation as it had evolved by the time the 1965 Immigration Act, which opened the floodgates after a 50-year pause. They were going to do this final surge of Third World immigration. They were going to import enough demographic change to make their election irreversible.

What does it mean?

The end of America as a political body.

It is ungovernable, unmanageable and broke beyond the ability to ever pay back.

Secession and separation.

Failing that, war, upheaval and genocide, more than likely.

It is very broken, but I have a penchant for fixing unfixable things.

I would strongly guess that you do too, come to that.

Check this article out. I come across lots of interesting articles and never have anyone to share them with. People in general simply wouldn't appreciate them. But since you've already determined (correctly) that we're in the midst of a colossal civilization-level catastrophe, that means the only people who could possibly say anything to cheer you up -- or, more importantly, anything useful and relevant to you -- are the people who have reached that same conclusion. And the only (intellectually significant) people who are 100% on-board with this civilizational collapse realization is the Alt-Right. The hard right. The real right. The reactionaries. Whatever you want to call them. They have realized and accepted the bleak reality, unlike everyone else who is hiding and cowering from it, and they are full of all kinds of interesting competing ideas, strategies, and tactics to seize victory from that reality.

http://www.amerika.org/politics/targ...-high-average/

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm in agreement that basic comprehension of those traditional American principles and values has been lost. As a consequence there cannot and will not exist any loyalty to that heritage. And certainly the ability is lost to fulfill the duty as temporary trustees of it for future generations.

It's not just ideals and ideas. It's not all abstraction and theory. This is *not* a "proposition" nation as much as Bill Kristol, Mitt Romney, and Dinesh D'Souza may wish it to be so. There is no such thing.

It's not a "proposition" nation.

It's just a nation.

Like, the regular kind.

Made up of, uhh, what was it? Oh yeah: people.

People are biological organisms. Their genetics matter. Different gene pools will give you different nations, different results. They do. Demonstrably. The remarkable determination to rail upon, hate, and refuse to affect this obvious reality is the distinguishing hallmark of the so-called left -- more aptly called r-selected excess-exploiters; scavengers and control-freaks. Uganda is Uganda and England is England not just because of oppression or discrimination or whatever. You will never build a London in Uganda without, what would you estimate, NC, 5,000 years?, of a selective breeding program using a very difference criteria than they've been using for the past 5,000 (or however long). Even then, are you as doubtful as me that it would work? Probably nothing short of wholesale extermination of the existing people and replacing them with a new set of people would do it. The existing Ugandans simply have no interest in building a London, nor ability to do it.

People are also spiritual organisms, I'm sure you would agree. Their spiritualities matter, and matter a great deal. Here too we see strong patterns of inheritance in familial lines. The Mossulman feels nothing profound nor special, no great yearnings in his heart gazing upon the Sistene Chapel, listening to Beethoven, or reading Plato, while the Christian, European man is overwhelmed in awe at the beauty he has encountered. Weeping, or 'meh'? Different spirits.

So it is not all about abstract ideals. But it's not even all about genetics, either. Epigenetics is the key to understand. Epigenetics is what's causing the collapse. Mass immigration is changing the character of the nation, yes, but also the historic stock has plunged very rapidly into decay. Why? Decadence. Excess. We got too rich and the restraints of our religion could not keep up. Thus we are experiencing this rapid collapse, much more rapid a change than would be possible with just genetics. No, the expression of the genes can change and do so within single generations. So even though chances are good that all your great-grandparents were stoic, stalwart, tough Americans, chances are good that you are not, and it's all down to gene expression. Free will, you could call it, if you like (I do).

So we have free will. Our fate is not set in stone. Let's use that freedom to chart a new course and save the West from ruin. Into the stars!

[Raginfridus]

I'm in agreement that basic comprehension of those traditional American principles and values has been lost. As a consequence there cannot and will not exist any loyalty to that heritage. And certainly the ability is lost to fulfill the duty as temporary trustees of it for future generations.

That reminds me of a talk I heard by someone from Mises Institute. The imperative of the trustee is completely lost. As a rule, a lessee has no actual incentive to invest in the rental, only to rob what value they can from it before the lessor signs with the next lessee. That's more analogous to reality, if you ask me.

[oyarde]

What would you wish America to be in the future ? Because the only chance to change what it is now may come after the next great financial collapse .

[Natural Citizen]

It's not just ideals and ideas. It's not all abstraction and theory. This is *not* a "proposition" nation as much as Bill Kristol, Mitt Romney, and Dinesh D'Souza may wish it to be so. There is no such thing.

It's not a "proposition" nation.

It's just a nation.

Like, the regular kind.

Made up of, uhh, what was it? Oh yeah: people.

People are biological organisms. Their genetics matter. Different gene pools will give you different nations, different results. They do. Demonstrably. The remarkable determination to rail upon, hate, and refuse to affect this obvious reality is the distinguishing hallmark of the so-called left -- more aptly called r-selected excess-exploiters; scavengers and control-freaks. Uganda is Uganda and England is England not just because of oppression or discrimination or whatever. You will never build a London in Uganda without, what would you estimate, NC, 5,000 years?, of a selective breeding program using a very difference criteria than they've been using for the past 5,000 (or however long). Even then, are you as doubtful as me that it would work? Probably nothing short of wholesale extermination of the existing people and replacing them with a new set of people would do it. The existing Ugandans simply have no interest in building a London, nor ability to do it.

People are also spiritual organisms, I'm sure you would agree. Their spiritualities matter, and matter a great deal. Here too we see strong patterns of inheritance in familial lines. The Mossulman feels nothing profound nor special, no great yearnings in his heart gazing upon the Sistene Chapel, listening to Beethoven, or reading Plato, while the Christian, European man is overwhelmed in awe at the beauty he has encountered. Weeping, or 'meh'? Different spirits.

So it is not all about abstract ideals. But it's not even all about genetics, either. Epigenetics is the key to understand. Epigenetics is what's causing the collapse. Mass immigration is changing the character of the nation, yes, but also the historic stock has plunged very rapidly into decay. Why? Decadence. Excess. We got too rich and the restraints of our religion could not keep up. Thus we are experiencing this rapid collapse, much more rapid a change than would be possible with just genetics. No, the expression of the genes can change and do so within single generations. So even though chances are good that all your great-grandparents were stoic, stalwart, tough Americans, chances are good that you are not, and it's all down to gene expression. Free will, you could call it, if you like (I do).

So we have free will. Our fate is not set in stone. Let's use that freedom to chart a new course and save the West from ruin. Into the stars!

Hm. So the short answer is that you're saying the gene pool is fudged up? Ha. lolol. That's actually true, too.

[helmuth_hubener]

Hm. So the short answer is that you're saying the gene pool is fudged up? Ha. lolol. That's actually true, too.

Actually, the genetics are not that bad, at least for many of us (see 2nd-to-last paragraph). The more immediate problem is too much prosperity, too many free resources. This bonanza undermines all the cultural technology -- mostly religion -- which undergirds our civilization and makes it possible.

[Natural Citizen]

That reminds me of a talk I heard by someone from Mises Institute. The imperative of the trustee is completely lost. As a rule, a lessee has no actual incentive to invest in the rental, only to rob what value they can from it before the lessor signs with the next lessee. That's more analogous to reality, if you ask me.

Yep. That sums it up well.

[Natural Citizen]

What would you wish America to be in the future ? Because the only chance to change what it is now may come after the next great financial collapse .

As Pete is fond of saying, what needs to be done cannot be spoken here. The black flag should have been raised a long time ago. Truer words have never been spoken.

[helmuth_hubener]

Actually, the genetics are not that bad, at least for many of us (see 2nd-to-last paragraph). The more immediate problem is too much prosperity, too many free resources. This bonanza undermines all the cultural technology -- mostly religion -- which undergirds our civilization and makes it possible.

I realized by using technical terminology I am being confusing.

Epigenetics is different from, and in contrast to, regular genetics.

Genetics is traditional heredity. It changes slowly -- though a whole lot quicker than most people think: an experiment in selective wolf breeding showed what amounted to the recreation of dogs in just a few generations of breeding the most friendly wolves. But anyway, relatively slowly.

Epigenetics you can think of as essentially related to environmental effects, which cause your genes to express differently. Same genes, different results. Different behaviors. This allows species to make much quicker on-the-fly adjustments to environmental changes such as asteroid hits, plague outbreaks, or (worst of all) free satellite TV and all the Cheetos and beer you can hold.

[helmuth_hubener]

Jews, the IDF and What Does It Mean To Be American

[Raginfridus]

There used to be a distinct "American" set of ideals all roughly defined by Boston, Massachusetts.

Remember that Capra was Army/Air PSYOPS, but here's his movie.