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Thread: Trump Monday Prime Time Address: Afghan Strategy

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Now we have THE ISSUE for a primary challenge.

    Will someone rise to champion it?
    Sen. Rand Paul: 16 Years On, It's Past Time To Bring Our Troops Home From Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sen. Paul
    The Trump administration is increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan and, by doing so, keeping us involved even longer in a 16-year-old war that has long since gone past its time.The mission in Afghanistan has lost its purpose, and I think it is a terrible idea to send any more troops into that war. It’s time to come home now.

    Our war in Afghanistan began in a proper fashion. We were attacked on 9/11. The Taliban, who then controlled Afghanistan, were harboring al Qaeda, and after being warned, and after an authorization from Congress, our military executed a plan to strike back. Had I been in Congress then, I would have voted to authorize this military action.But as is typical, there was significant mission creep in Afghanistan. We went from striking back against those who attacked us, to regime change, to nation-building, to policing their country for them. And we do it all now with an authorization that is flimsy at best, with the reason blurred, and the costs now known. We do it with an authorization that was debated and passed before some of our newest military personnel were out of diapers. This isn’t fair to them, to the American people, or to a rational foreign policy.

    The Afghanistan war going beyond its original mission has an enormous cost. First and most important is the cost to our troops. Deaths, injuries and unnecessary deployments causing harm to families are certainly the most important reason as to why you don’t go to wars that aren’t necessary.

    Then comes the taxpayer. We have spent over $1 trillion in Afghanistan, and nearly $5 trillion on Middle East wars in the past 15 years. Would we not be better off with $5 trillion less in debt or using these funds in other, more productive ways?

    Nation-building should not be our job, and it has consistently been a fool’s errand for us, particularly in this region. There is no reason to believe we can do it in Afghanistan, and certainly no reason to believe we can do it without a permanent, costly presence in the country.

    So I strongly disagree with the administration’s actions here. I’ve spoken to the president, and I know he wants to end this war. We’ve all heard him say it. But talk won’t get it done. Although I’ve been informed that the president rejected larger expansions of troops than the one announced this week, that’s not good enough. He should have rejected this one and stuck to his principles. He knows this war is over, and he – unlike the last two presidents – should have the guts to end it for real, on his watch.

    Regardless of the argument over the number of troops, I also will insist my colleagues take up a larger argument over the power to declare war. I believe we have allowed the executive to exercise far too much power in recent years.

    This is one of the reasons I objected just before the recess when the Senate moved to consider the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). I have an amendment that I will insist be considered that would repeal the 2001 AUMF on Afghanistan. That AUMF is outdated, overcome by events, and provides a feeble bit of cover for people who still want to be there.

    If the president and my colleagues want to continue the war in Afghanistan, then at the very least Congress should vote on it. I’ll insist they do this fall, and I’ll be leading the charge for “no.”



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  3. #152
    But will he run again?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But will he run again?
    If enough people want him to run and express their support, I think he will. What he doesn't want to do, I'm sure, is repeat the experience of last primary, where he killed himself campaigning only to have his alleged base desert him last minute for an anti-liberty television clown. If the libertarian movement, along with enough genuine conservatives, rallied behind Rand, I think he'd love to have a second go at this creature in the White House.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-22-2017 at 05:10 PM.

  6. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If enough people want him to run and express their support, I think he will. What he doesn't want to do, I'm sure, is repeat the experience of last primary, where he killed himself campaigning only to have his alleged base desert him last minute for an anti-liberty television clown. If the libertarian movement, along with enough genuine conservatives, rallied behind Rand, I think he'd love to have a second go at this creature in the White House.
    In one of his more candid interviews he said he would do it again if he was given the chance. Just having an anti war POV on the debate stage was worth it to him probably, if he wasn't there Trump would of never ran on the platform he did.

  7. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If enough people want him to run and express their support, I think he will. What he doesn't want to do, I'm sure, is repeat the experience of last primary, where he killed himself campaigning only to have his alleged base desert him last minute for an anti-liberty television clown. If the libertarian movement, along with enough genuine conservatives, rallied behind Rand, I think he'd love to have a second go at this creature in the White House.
    That seems like an inaccurate statement, considering Rand didn't even run past Iowa. No doubt the writing was on the wall that the media was placing Trump front and center in order to hand him the nomination on a platter but I think it's pretty hard to say everyone deserted Rand for Trump after only a single caucus. Sure, some did after Rand dropped but one caucus does not make a campaign.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That seems like an inaccurate statement, considering Rand didn't even run past Iowa. No doubt the writing was on the wall that the media was placing Trump front and center in order to hand him the nomination on a platter but I think it's pretty hard to say everyone deserted Rand for Trump after only a single caucus. Sure, some did after Rand dropped but one caucus does not make a campaign.
    He got 5% in Iowa, less than a quarter of what Ron got in 2012. The desertions had already happened.

    I don't blame him for dropping out at that point...

    Anyway, how about this: let's not argue. Instead, let's try again, and this time let's just win Iowa, as we should have last time.

    Deal?

  9. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He got 5% in Iowa, less than a quarter of what Ron got in 2012. The desertions had already happened.

    I don't blame him for dropping out at that point...

    Anyway, how about this: let's not argue about. Instead, let's try again, and this time let's just win Iowa, as we should have last time.

    Deal?
    Meh. At this point, I'm pretty well convinced the entire process is scripted. We'll see what the future holds.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  10. #158
    The rule is "once a spook, always a spook," but could Scheuer be the exception that proves the rule? I haven't heard from him in awhile, but he might make a good running mate.

    Then again, if he's no exception, he could sink the candidacy.

  11. #159
    Pakistan on Trump’s Afghanistan plan: Nope

    https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-plan-for-afghanistan-925a9aae10fc/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #160
    China defends ally Pakistan after Trump criticism

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-defends-ally-pakistan-trump-criticism-080912095.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #161

  15. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    The rule is "once a spook, always a spook," but could Scheuer be the exception that proves the rule? I haven't heard from him in awhile, but he might make a good running mate.

    Then again, if he's no exception, he could sink the candidacy.
    He viciously attacked Rand back in 2014 for allegedly selling out to the hawks: then, later, jumped on the Trumpwagon.

    ...Raimondo syndrome.

    So, I don't know if he's "always a spook" or nuts, but, either way, I'd want him nowhere near Rand's campaign.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 08-23-2017 at 12:34 PM.

  16. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He viciously attacked Rand back in 2014 for allegedly selling out to the hawks: then, later, jumped on the Trumpwagon.

    ...Raimondo syndrome.

    So, I don't know if he's "always a spook" or nuts, but, either way, I'd want him nowhere near Rand's campaign.
    It's part of waking up to the truth that damn near everything surrounding the 9/11 and OBL/AQ narrative was crap. Dare I say that even Ron's blowback statements weren't completely accurate (probably a political necessity however), so if one accepts that blowback wasn't what caused 9/11 then one must accept that Scheurer's OBL commentaries were crap. He, of all people, would know the real story about OBL. If he wasn't honest then indeed, once a spook, always a spook.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  17. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So I'm not watching, but from what you guys are posting, it looks pretty much like what we were expecting. Sorry for the ones who got fell for his sales pitch.
    I don't think many of the people who supported him are happy about this at all. I know I am not. But, I am also not going to sit here and claim he hasn't done anything right. Because that would be a lie. Right out of the gate he shut down the Trans Pacific Partnership, he got us out of the Paris Climate deal, he has curtailed the growth of federal regulations, etc.

    Damn sight short of what he promised and I am not at all happy about this interventionist crap. But, given the alternative, I would vote for him again. At least the way things sit right now.

    Note: He is getting advice on foreign policy from the globalist pukes in his cabinet. Garbage in, garbage out. He needs to get rid of them. When he chose them, they were on the advice of others. I doubt he knew who to pick for foreign policy. This is one of the reasons I hoped that Ron would reach out to him on recommendations, when Trump was looking for candidates. As often as Trump changes staff, I suppose it's never too late. There certainly isn't anything to lose from Ron doing this.
    Last edited by LibertyEagle; 08-23-2017 at 03:09 PM.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  18. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    He viciously attacked Rand back in 2014 for allegedly selling out to the hawks: then, later, jumped on the Trumpwagon.

    ...Raimondo syndrome.

    So, I don't know if he's "always a spook" or nuts, but, either way, I'd want him nowhere near Rand's campaign.
    It would be better if Commies, pretending to be libertarians, stayed away from him too.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  19. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    Trump Monday Prime Time Address: Afghan Strategy
    Rand has a good relationship with Trump. I hope and pray that he gets in Trump's ear over this. We have no business being in Afghanistan. Trump's instincts were right and now, he's being led into it by the freaking globalists in his cabinet.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  20. #167
    Think the hegemons didn't intend this move? It's aimed directly at India.


    China And Russia Defend Pakistan Against Trump’s Strategy
    https://www.valuewalk.com/2017/08/ch...medium=twitter


    Addressing a daily news briefing on Tuesday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying defended Pakistan after Trump’s speech and praised her country’s “all-weather” friend for making “great sacrifices” and “important contributions” in the fight against terrorism. Mrs. Chunying also called on the international community to “fully recognize” Islamabad’s struggle against terrorism.

    Russia echoed a similar sentiment on Tuesday. When speaking to Russia’s “Afghanistan” daily, Russian Presidential Envoy to Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov lambasted Trump’s Pakistan strategy and insisted that Islamabad is “a key regional player to negotiate with.”

    “Putting pressure [on Pakistan] may seriously destabilize the region-wide security situation and result in negative consequences for Afghanistan,” the Russian presidential envoy to Kabul said.

  21. #168
    Wait... those on the Trump train didn't see this coming? Really?



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  23. #169

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