Lies Anti-Vaxxers Tell: "Too Many Vaccines Overloads The Immune System"

[angelatc]

And my point remains, quite simply, that the converse is not proven,

.

Again, science doesn't work that way. Nobody can prove something that does not exist.

[Ender]

My point remains, quite simply, that there is literally no evidence that too many vaccines somehow overload young immune systems.

So- you believe in global warming because it supported by "scientists".

And, there is plenty of evidence- reading is your friend- oops! I forgot that if it didn't come from .gov, it means nothing.

[acptulsa]

Again, science doesn't work that way. Nobody can prove something that does not exist.

You don't appear to be listening, so I give up. But the fact remains that things have been proven which were once thought not to exist--by people who prefer jumping to conclusions to the scientific method. And some of them used the fact that scientists hadn't proven the thing to exist as proof it didn't--right up until better scientists proved it did.

[angelatc]

Are you sure that, in the heat of the moment, you didn't encourage that imagination of his?

Yes, I am. And I can explain exactly why. This isn't emotional for me, therefore it isn't a heated moment.

'No such thing'? No doctor anywhere on earth ever concocted such an ill-advised regimen? Would it be a bad thing if one did? If that's a bad thing, doesn't that sort of contradict what you said above?

Back to the title of the thread. But in a more general position, there are reasons that the vaccines are spread out. I'm not up to speed on all of them, but if that's something you're interested in I can dig data out. I do know that some vaccines require multiple doses, and I certainly believe that if someone could develop a single dose version of those vaccines, (the MMR for example) the market would gladly adopt it.

[euphemia]

Science says that the longer you're not vaccinated, the more likely you are to get sick.

Are you kidding? It is a scientific fact that people get sick when they are exposed to disease. No exposure = no sickness.

[angelatc]

You don't appear to be listening, so I give up.

I am absolutely listening. There is no evidence that too many vaccines overload the immune system. At best, some parents worry that there might be some undiscovered issues.

But the fact remains that things have been proven which were once thought not to exist--by people who prefer jumping to conclusions to the scientific method. And some of them used the fact that scientists hadn't proven the thing to exist as proof it didn't--right up until better scientists proved it did.

And when those things are proven, I'll revise my position. But until then, there is no evidence that too many vaccines overload young immune systems.

[angelatc]

Are you kidding? It is a scientific fact that people get sick when they are exposed to disease. No exposure = no sickness.

Your point doesn't negate mine.

[angelatc]

So- you believe in global warming because it supported by "scientists".

.

Any time a sentence begins with the word so, the odds are good that a strawman will follow.

[acptulsa]

But in a more general position, there are reasons that the vaccines are spread out. I'm not up to speed on all of them, but if that's something you're interested in I can dig data out.

I am, actually. And as often as you have this conversation, I'd have thought you were too.

Are you kidding? It is a scientific fact that people get sick when they are exposed to disease. No exposure = no sickness.

Of course. But you must admit that getting a vaccine is easier than avoiding something that floats on the wind, and is too small to see.

If there's no risk to any child, regardless of their unique genetic makeup, in getting all vaccines at once, then she's right. If there is risk there, if only to a few children, then you're right. That's a question science has no definite answer for, yet, or if there is proof too many vaccines at once harmed a child we're not being let in on it. So it becomes a matter of risk of exposure v. risk this one child is the one who can't handle it. She may be right to say the one child in a million who can't take the regimen is the smaller risk. You are certainly right to say exposure is a risk that a mother does have some degree of control over.

Neither of you is going to win this particular argument right away.

And when those things are proven, I'll revise my position. But until then, there is no evidence that too many vaccines overload young immune systems.

Well, that's certainly fair enough. But in the meantime, I have empathy for parents who don't want their baby to provide you with that proof.

[donnay]

I am still waiting for Angela to answer the question I posted in the last page about how whistleblower Senior scientist from the CDC came out about how the CDC destroyed scientific evidence that the MMR, specifically, does in fact cause autism in black boys.

In 2013, biologist Dr. Brian Hooker received a call from a Senior Scientist at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) who led the agency’s 2004 study on the Measles-Mumps-Rubella (MMR) vaccine and its link to autism.

The scientist, Dr. William Thompson, confessed that the CDC had omitted crucial data in their final report that revealed a causal relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism. Over several months, Dr. Hooker records the phone calls made to him by Dr. Thompson who provides the confidential data destroyed by his colleagues at the CDC.

[angelatc]

If there's no risk to any child, regardless of their unique genetic makeup, in getting all vaccines at once, then she's right. .

That's a strawman, but aside from that the future of medicine indeed involves customizing dosages to individuals based on numerous factors, genetics being one. I think that's exciting.

In the interim, good isn't the enemy of perfect.

[acptulsa]

That's a strawman, but aside from that the future of medicine indeed involves customizing dosages to individuals based on numerous factors, genetics being one. I think that's exciting.

In the interim, good isn't the enemy of perfect.

No, it is not a strawman. And neither one good nor another is the enemy of perfect. And there is more than one way to achieve good, in this case.

[angelatc]

I am still waiting for Angela to answer the question I posted in the last page about how whistleblower Senior scientist from the CDC came out about how the CDC destroyed scientific evidence that the MMR, specifically, does in fact cause autism in black boys.

For one, this has already been addressed ad nauseum. Here's one thread, for example. For two, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

[angelatc]

No, it is not a strawman. And neither one good nor another is the enemy of perfect. And there is more than one way to achieve good, in this case.

Of course it's a strawman. Nobody would ever say,

there's no risk to any child, regardless of their unique genetic makeup, in getting all vaccines at once

.

[euphemia]

Of course. But you must admit that getting a vaccine is easier than avoiding something that floats on the wind, and is too small to see.

Actually, they don't really float on wind. They mostly require close exposure to someone with the disease.

I have had the four major childhood diseases. I remember having chicken pox and mumps. They were miserable, but were over in a week. No complications. Our daughter had chicken pox. Again, she was sick for a week, then fine.

I don't understand the paranoia.

[angelatc]

Actually, they don't really float on wind. They mostly require close exposure to someone with the disease.

Transmission of Measles. Measles is a highly contagious virus that lives in the nose and throat mucus of an infected person. It can spread to others through coughing and sneezing. Also, measles virus can live for up to two hours in an airspace where the infected person coughed or sneezed.

I have had the four major childhood diseases. I remember having chicken pox and mumps. They were miserable, but were over in a week. No complications. Our daughter had chicken pox. Again, she was sick for a week, then fine.

I don't understand the paranoia.

The fact that most of us don't personally know anybody who died from, or suffered long lasting side effects from, these childhood diseases is a strong testament to the efficiency of vaccines.

[Zippyjuan]

I am still waiting for Angela to answer the question I posted in the last page about how whistleblower Senior scientist from the CDC came out about how the CDC destroyed scientific evidence that the MMR, specifically, does in fact cause autism in black boys.

The data was removed because it was faulty and misleading. A group of black males were found to be at higher risk of autism following vaccines because the asked a group of them (or their families) if they were vaccinated. The problem was that most were vaccinated AFTER they were diagnosed with autism- the vaccine was required in order for them to get into a special schooling program for autistic kids. The vaccine could not have caused their autism because they had the autism before they got their shot. Once the data was removed, no connection between the vaccine and autism was found for any group.

[donnay]

For one, this has already been addressed ad nauseum. Here's one thread, for example. For two, it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Ad nauseum? One thread from a science blog. Seriously? Brush up on your Latin while you're at it.

It has everything to do with the topic, if one vaccine can hurt children then what would happen to the child who receives 49 doses of vaccines before they are 6 years old?

[euphemia]

Then how come the reported cases at Disneyland did not result in mass epidemics of measles?

Honey, I grew up at a time when there were no vaccinations to measles, rubella, chicken pox, or mumps. The polio vaccine was new. I have had the actual diseases. I, my sibling, and most of my friends had the diseases. We all lived.

I do not understand the paranoia over being sick.

[Zippyjuan]

Then how come the reported cases at Disneyland did not result in mass epidemics of measles?

Honey, I grew up at a time when there were no vaccinations to measles, rubella, chicken pox, or mumps. The polio vaccine was new. I have had the actual diseases. I, my sibling, and most of my friends had the diseases. We all lived.

I do not understand the paranoia over being sick.

Ron Paul experienced polio- in friends and family. He called the polio vaccine a "blessing". Why wasn't there a mass epidemic of measles after the Disneyland outbreak? Because most of the country is vaccinated. (a few of the infected were vaccinated- the vaccine is not fully 100% effective).

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/health...les/index.html

Overall, 82% of those infected in this outbreak were not vaccinated, either because they're too young or because they elected not to be, officials said.

[donnay]

The data was removed because it was faulty and misleading. A group of black males were found to be at higher risk of autism following vaccines because the asked a group of them (or their families) if they were vaccinated. The problem was that most were vaccinated AFTER they were diagnosed with autism- the vaccine was required in order for them to get into a special schooling program. The vaccine could not have caused their autism because they had the autism before they had it. Once the data was removed, no connection between the vaccine and autism was found for any group.

CDC Blocking Testimony

Disconcertingly, Thomas Frieden (see picture above), the Director of the Centres for Disease Control (CDC), has blocked Dr. Thompson’s attempt to testify on scientific fraud and the destruction of evidence by senior CDC officials.

Attorneys Smith and Kennedy have been seeking to have Thompson testify on medical malpractice, specifically with regard to fraud in a series of studies that found no link between vaccines and autism, which are cited earlier in the article.

Mr. Kennedy writes that, according to Thompson, “for the past decade his superiors have pressured him and his fellow scientists to lie and manipulate data about the safety of the mercury-based preservative thimerosal to conceal its causative link to a suite of brain injuries, including autism.”

Ecowatch, Dr. Frieden said that “Dr. William Thompson’s deposition testimony would not substantially promote the objectives of CDC or HHS [Health and Human Services].”

Despite the fact that Thompson revealed a casual link between vaccines and autism, or autistic features, Frieden stated that “Dr William Thompson’s deposition testimony would not substantially promote the objectives of CDC or HHD.”

The case seeking the testimony of Dr. Thompson is from the family of 16-year-old Yates Hazlehurst. A lawsuit is currently underway implying that Yates is autistic as a result of vaccine administration that occurred in 2001.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...l-malpractice/

A sample of the Thompson quotes:

“Oh my God, I did not believe that we did what we did, but we did. It’s all there… This is the lowest point in my career, that I went along with that paper. I have great shame now when I meet families of kids with autism, because I have been part of the problem.”“We’ve missed ten years of research because the CDC is so paralyzed right now by anything related to autism. They’re not doing what they should be doing because they’re afraid to look for things that might be associated.”

CDC releases a statement on their web site confirming that the study parameters were changed and that there were two sets of children studied. One was all the children initially recruited for the study; the other was a subset of children who had Georgia birth certificates. The statement also confirmed that a higher association was found between MMR and autism in children given the vaccine before the age of 36 months.

8/27/14 – Dr. William Thompson releases a statement through his whistleblower attorneys confirming the claims made about him and about the paper. He expresses regret that he and his colleagues omitted statistically significant data on the vaccine autism link, he confirms that it was he on the audio speaking to Dr. Hooker on the phone, and he states that he is providing information to Congressman Bill Posey and will continue to cooperate with Congress on the matter.

[...]

[10/18/16 – Robert F. Kennedy Jr., via his organization, the World Mercury Project, announce that a judge has allowed a civil case for a vaccine induced autism claim against a physician to move forward to trial in Tennessee. Because the case involves the MMR vaccine, the judge has allowed Dr. William Thompson to be subpoenaed, and CDC Director Tom Frieden is attempting to block Thompson from testifying in the first civil hearing before a jury of a vaccine injury case in more than 30 years.

http://canaryparty.org/commentary/ti...lower-scandal/

[angelatc]

Then how come the reported cases at Disneyland did not result in mass epidemics of measles?

Because the population is largely vaccinated.

I grew up at a time when there were no vaccinations to measles, rubella, chicken pox, or mumps. The polio vaccine was new. I have had the actual diseases. I, my sibling, and most of my friends had the diseases. We all lived.

I do not understand the paranoia over being sick.

Anecdotal evidence doesn't portray the entire picture. For example, when a pregnant woman gets measles the side effects include birth defects as well as spontaneous abortion. So only examining the data of people who managed to be born and were exposed to a particular strain doesn't paint the whole picture.

Hope that helps.

[euphemia]

Ron Paul experienced polio- in friends and family. He called the polio vaccine a "blessing". Why wasn't there a mass epidemic of measles after the Disneyland outbreak? Because most of the country is vaccinated. (a few of the infected were vaccinated- the vaccine is not fully 100% effective).

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/21/health...les/index.html

I don't disagree with the polio or smallpox vaccines. I'm just saying the paranoia over a lot of things is unseemly. It seems like a lot of policy is made when the risk of death is small from the actual diseases for which vaccines are given.

It's really not worth all the drama and animosity.

[acptulsa]

Of course it's a strawman. Nobody would ever say, .

I didn't say anyone had. I said that was the hill you seemed for a bit there to want to die on.

[angelatc]

Ad nauseum? One thread from a science blog. Seriously?

Search the forums for "Brian Hooker." It has been discussed repeatedly.

It has everything to do with the topic.

No, the topic is that too many vaccines overwhelm the immune system. Hooker was trying to make a different point about vaccines, although he failed to provide evidence to do so.

[angelatc]

I don't disagree with the polio or smallpox vaccines. I'm just saying the paranoia over a lot of things is unseemly. It seems like a lot of policy is made when the risk of death is small from the actual diseases for which vaccines are given.

It's really not worth all the drama and animosity.

Death isn't the only side effect of the diseases we're discussing.

[donnay]

Search the forums for "Brian Hooker." It has been discussed repeatedly.


No, the topic is that too many vaccines overwhelm the immune system. Hooker was trying to make a different point about vaccines, although he failed to provide evidence to do so.

So you totally ignored what I said: "It has everything to do with the topic, if one vaccine can hurt children then what would happen to the child who receives 49 doses of vaccines before they are 6 years old?"

Then you can look at this study:

Review of Vaccine Induced Immune Overload and the Resulting Epidemics of
Type 1 Diabetes and Metabolic Syndrome, Emphasis on Explaining the Recent
Accelerations in the Risk of Prediabetes and other Immune Mediated Diseases
http://www.vaccines.net/vaccine-indu...e-overload.pdf

[William Tell]

The fact that most of us don't personally know anybody who died from, or suffered long lasting side effects from, these childhood diseases is a strong testament to the efficiency of vaccines.

What is the fact that so many know people with vaccine damaged children a strong testament of?

[Zippyjuan]

So you totally ignored what I said: "It has everything to do with the topic, if one vaccine can hurt children then what would happen to the child who receives 49 doses of vaccines before they are 6 years old?"

Then you can look at this study:

Review of Vaccine Induced Immune Overload and the Resulting Epidemics of
Type 1 Diabetes and Metabolic Syndrome, Emphasis on Explaining the Recent
Accelerations in the Risk of Prediabetes and other Immune Mediated Diseases
http://www.vaccines.net/vaccine-indu...e-overload.pdf

"Study" says that vaccinations are up and that diabetes/obesity is up. Therefore, vaccines are causing diabetes/ obesity. Correlation is not necessarily causation.

[donnay]

"Study" says that vaccinations are up and that diabetes/obesity is up. Therefore, vaccines are causing diabetes/ obesity. Correlation is not necessarily causation.

No it is a study on vaccine overload and chronic illnesses cropping up because the immune system has been compromised.