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Thread: what About Those who Have Never heard of Jesus- Answering Common Objections to the Bible

  1. #1

    what About Those who Have Never heard of Jesus- Answering Common Objections to the Bible

    What of Those That Have Never Heard of Christianity

    This objection is, however, fallacious, because it assumes that those who have never heard about Christ are judged on the same basis as those who have. But the Bible says that the unreached will be judged on a quite different basis than those who have heard the gospel. God will judge the un reached on the basis of their response to His self-revelation in nature and conscience. The Bible says that from the created order alone, all persons can know that a Creator God exists and that God has implanted His moral law in the hearts of all persons so that they are held morally accountable to God (Rom. 1.20;2.14-15). The Bible promises salvation to anyone who responds affirmatively to this self-revelation of God (Rom. 2.7). Now this does not mean that they can be saved apart from Christ. Rather it means that the benefits of Christ's sacrifice can be applied to them without their conscious knowledge of Christ. They would be like people in the Old Testament before Jesus came who had no conscious knowledge of Christ but who were saved on the basis of his sacrifice through their response to the information that God had revealed to them. And, thus, salvation is truly available to all persons at all times. It all depends upon our free response.

    The book or Romans says anyone who would be saved, will be saved. So it matters not where someone is born as everyone willing will be saved.God knows who will accept him by there reaction to nature and there conscious. No one is sent to hell for not hearing the bible, but for sinning against a holy god.

    12 Some people do not know God's law when they sin. They will not be judged by the law when they die. Others do know God's law when they sin. They will be judged by the law. 13 For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous. 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law,are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men
    Romans2 13-16

    31“Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God,and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
    Jeremiah31 31-34

    all know god through creation and what is made

    20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse
    Romans1.20

    The heavens declare the glory of God;
    the skiesproclaim the work of his hands.
    2 Day after day they pour forthspeech;
    night after night they revealknowledge.
    3 They have no speech, they use no words;
    nosound is heard from them.
    4 Yet their voice goes out into all theearth,
    their words to the ends of the world.

    Psalm19.4

    so he will sprinkle many nations,
    and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
    For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.

    Isiah 52.15

    Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
    Acts14.17

    In Colossians 1.23 Paul says every creature under haven has had gospel preached to them, the book was written in 60-62 A.D I believe some people who claim to be atheist will be in heaven

    I was sought by those who did not ask for Me;
    I was found by those who did not seek Me.
    Isaid, ‘Here I am, here I am,’
    To a nation that was not called by My name.

    Isaiah 65.1

    but many that hear about god will not accept him

    I spread out My hands all day long
    to arebellious people
    who walk in the wrong path,
    following their own thoughts

    Isiah 65.2

    In Matthew chapter 25 Jesus says he will reap were he has not yet sown, i believe in context this parable talks of those who have not herd of Jesus. In v 34-39 gentiles will be saved and entire paradise and say to Jesus when did I know you?

    In Jeremiah 22.16 it says
    16 He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
    andso all went well.
    Is that not what it means to know me?”
    declares the LORD.


    no one will be judged for sins they were unaware of

    for where there is no law there is no transgression.
    Romans chapter 4. 15

    If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
    John15.22 also 9.41

    13In fact, sin was in the world before the law, but sin is not chargedto one's account when there is no law.
    Romans 5.13

    Paul argues with the Jews in Romans chapter 3 saying how can the law save? Is god, god only to those that have the law?

    28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
    Romans3 28-30


    A example of a believer in god who had not yet heard gospel message in Acts 16 v 14 it reads

    14 One of those listening was a woman from the city of Thyatir a named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth. She was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message. 15 When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. “If you consider me a believer in the Lord,” she said, “come and stay at my house.” And she persuaded us.

    C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity said

    "There are people in other religions who are being led by God's secret influence to concentrate on those parts of their religion which are in agreement with Christianity, and who thus belong to Christ without knowing it. For example a Buddhist of good will may be led to concentrate more and more on the Buddhist teaching about mercy and to leave in the background (though he might still say he believed) the Buddhist teaching on certain points. Many of the good Pagans long before Christ's birth may have been in this position."

    According to world famous evangelist Billy Graham, people can love or know Jesus without being conscious of it. If unbelievers who do not know the name of Jesus turn to the "only light they have" they are going to be in heaven:

    "I think that everybody that loves or knows Christ, whether they areconscious of it or not, they are members of the body of Christ. .. . [God] is calling people out of the world for his name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not know the name ofJesus but they know in their hearts that they need something they do not have, and they turn to the only light they have, and I think that they are saved and they are going to be with us in heaven."
    -Billy Graham
    The official stance of the catholic church agrees.

    Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart,and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they knowit through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation” (quoting, Lumen Gentium, 16).

    Although in ways known to himself God can lead those, who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men” (quoting AdGentes,7, another document from VaticanII).

    I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me” (John14:6),which I quoted above, this same Jesus also said, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” (John15:22;see also John9:41).Jesus presents a very important principle here. Aperson is not responsible for what they could not have known. …... “those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of Godand with His grace strive to lead a good life” will not be denied by Divine Providence what the Council fathers called “the helps necessary for salvation” (LumenGentium,16).
    Last edited by 1stvermont; 08-17-2017 at 02:38 PM.



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  3. #2
    Doesn't that clash with "no way to the father except through me" and all that? So you're saying that millions of hindus, Buddhists, aborigines, and tribal people, etc, WON'T go to hell? Only if they are presented with 'god's word' and reject it? Where is that line drawn? Say you tried to hand an aborigine a bible and he says 'no thanks', did he just condemn himself to a fiery eternity in the pit or is there some other measure?
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Doesn't that clash with "no way to the father except through me" and all that? So you're saying that millions of hindus, Buddhists, aborigines, and tribal people, etc, WON'T go to hell? Only if they are presented with 'god's word' and reject it? Where is that line drawn? Say you tried to hand an aborigine a bible and he says 'no thanks', did he just condemn himself to a fiery eternity in the pit or is there some other measure?
    I respond to that twice I believe in my op, once quoting catholic doctrine at the end small section here

    I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me” (John14:6),which I quoted above, this same Jesus also said, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” (John15:22;see also John9:41).Jesus presents a very important principle here. Aperson is not responsible for what they could not have known. …...

    and in my first paragraph

    Now this does not mean that they can be saved apart from Christ. Rather it means that the benefits of Christ's sacrifice can be applied to them without their conscious knowledge of Christ. They would be like people in the Old Testament before Jesus came who had no conscious knowledge of Christ but who were saved on the basis of his sacrifice through their response to the information that God had revealed to them. And, thus, salvation is truly available to all persons at all times. It all depends upon our free response.



    Great question. I am saying millions of those people are going to hell, and i am also saying many of them are not. Your example would not be a rejection of gods word. It would be a rejection of the person or an intellectual rejection such as they were told false info about the bible so they dont consider it. Had they known that was gods word from him and rejected it, that would be different.

    But what I am saying is of those who have never heard of Jesus are judged by their conscious and what God has reveled to them through nature. God judges them by their reaction to his revelation to them that is built into all people.

    13 For the hearers of the law are not righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be declared righteous. 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law,are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men
    Romans2 13-16

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Doesn't that clash with "no way to the father except through me" and all that? So you're saying that millions of hindus, Buddhists, aborigines, and tribal people, etc, WON'T go to hell? Only if they are presented with 'god's word' and reject it? Where is that line drawn? Say you tried to hand an aborigine a bible and he says 'no thanks', did he just condemn himself to a fiery eternity in the pit or is there some other measure?
    Nope.

    Acts 17:16-34
    16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. 17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there. 18 Then[b] certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?”

    Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.

    19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? 20 For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean.” 21 For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.

    Addressing the Areopagus
    22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

    TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

    Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood[c] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

    32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.


    And going further....

    Colossians 1:19-21
    19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

    21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled


    2 Corinthians 5:18-21

    18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

    20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


    There is a difference between having a knowledge of the truth and rejecting and never coming into a knowledge of the truth in the first place. Hebrews points this out.

    Hebrews 10:26
    26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins

    What is the willful sin Hebrews 10:26 is talking about?

    Matthew 12:31-32
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

    32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


    God could not justly hold a person accountable for not believing in Jesus who never heard of Jesus. And if He was going to forgive the sins of the believer, but not forgive the sins of those who never heard of Jesus, that wouldn't be just either. All who are saved are saved through Jesus sacrifice. They are "brought unto the Father" by Him even if they die never knowing Him. Salvation isn't about us. It's about Jesus.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  6. #5
    The people using the conscience argument from Romans 2 never seem to understand Paul's argument from chapter 2 to 3.

    It's true that gentiles who don't have the law will be judged without the law... And they are condemned. This is what Paul explains in chapter 3. No matter if you are a Jew with the law, or a gentile without the law, you are alike under sin and condemned.

    There is no salvation outside of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    There is no salvation outside of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus.
    This is true..
    but is does not negate Gods ability to judge as He will,, and Save all who He will.

    and even those in Hell

    For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, while the ark was being built. In the ark a few people, only eight souls, were saved through water.…
    Last edited by pcosmar; 01-13-2018 at 06:56 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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