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Thread: The libertarian movement has no affinity with the Unite the Right Rally

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    uhm, seeing as people are still in the air from being hit by it, I'm pretty sure that is the car that hit them.
    Yeah, I could be wrong.



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Am I correct that one group had a permit to protest the removal of the statues?

    Seems like somebody decided to send in a second group to protest the group with the permit.

    Takes two to tango, so who bused in the second group? That's who should be blamed.
    Yes. The Unite the Right group got a permit to hold an assembly in Emancipation Park. Emancipation Park was formerly known as Lee Park after confederate General Robert E. Lee. The city council changed the name and then also decided to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee that is still in the park. White nationalists decided that this should be ground zero and obtained a permit. The city council after issuing the permit decided to move the rally to McIntyre park. The white nationalist coalition challenged it, the ACLU got behind them, and a federal judge decided the rally had to go ahead as permitted. Liberal special interest groups opposed to the white nationalist special interest groups decided to counter protest. The government decided to let them go head to head before stepping in. The two groups were purposely routed into each others path by cops. Then the cops stood back. And waited. For what eventually would happen.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Yes. The Unite the Right group got a permit to hold an assembly in Emancipation Park. Emancipation Park was formerly known as Lee Park after confederate General Robert E. Lee. The city council changed the name and then also decided to remove the statue of Robert E. Lee that is still in the park. White nationalists decided that this should be ground zero and obtained a permit. The city council after issuing the permit decided to move the rally to McIntyre park. The white nationalist coalition challenged it, the ACLU got behind them, and a federal judge decided the rally had to go ahead as permitted. Liberal special interest groups opposed to the white nationalist special interest groups decided to counter protest. The government decided to let them go head to head before stepping in. The two groups were purposely routed into each others path by cops. Then the cops stood back. And waited. For what eventually would happen.
    Thank you. That answered my question.

    Both groups are wrong but the third group that allowed the conflict is really to blame.

  5. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Thank you. That answered my question.

    Both groups are wrong but the third group that allowed the conflict is really to blame.
    Absolutely. This whole situation was fomented by special interests. Everyone involved were dupes.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  6. #65

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    interesting thread title change, I wonder what prompted that.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    interesting thread title change, I wonder what prompted that.
    Technical limits when putting a post on the front page.

    Eta, still a good headline to drive the point home.
    This site has a specific purpose defined in our Mission Statement.

    Members must read and follow our Community Guidelines.

    I strive to respond to all queries; please excuse late and out-of-sequence responses.

  8. #67

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    From Drudge;



    Police helicopter circling anti-Nazi protest in Charlottesville crashes in woods and explodes into flames

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...crash-10979445


    A pilot and another person are feared dead after a police helicopter crashed and exploded into flames amid violent counter-demonstrations in Charlottesville, Virginia.

    Two people were on board the aircraft when it went down in a wooded area south-west of the city.

    A photo posted online purported to show the wreckage in a ball of flames, while other images showed smoke billowing into the air and part of the helicopter stuck in a tree.

    A witness said the helicopter spiralled to the ground after it stalled and went out of control.

    People who live near the scene told the Daily Progress that the helicopter hovered low over houses before crashing.


    "This was terrorism": One protester confirmed dead after 'motorist deliberately drives into anti-Nazi activists' at white supremacist rally
    Witnesses told local media that the Virginia State Police helicopter, a Bell 407, crashed near a golf course.

    Witness Emma Eisner, who captured video of smoke rising into the air, wrote on Twitter: "To everyone asking about the helicopter crash: it basically started stalling, spiraled down to the ground & lost control ."

    Horrifying scenes as car ploughs into anti-Nazi activists after white supremacist rally descends into mass brawl
    A police helicopter had been seen earlier in the day circling over the counter-demonstrations in Charlottesville.

    The helicopter went down at about 5pm local time seven miles from Charlottesville, in Albemarle County, and away from the site of the protests where one person was killed and 34 others injured.

    The Federal Aviation Administration and National Transportation Safety Board are investigating the crash.


    The horrific incident was captured on camera, showing people being thrown into the air and receiving help on the floor in the aftermath.


    White supremacists chanted "You will not erase us" and anti-fascist demonstrators carried signs reading "Nazi go home" and "Smash white supremacy".

  9. #68

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    A lot of "what the hell is going on?" is going on today.

    One of the few stories of good will that happened today: A brutal Rep War was averted between me and Lamp. Thank goodness for some peaceful resolutions.
    Last edited by RJB; 08-12-2017 at 04:32 PM.

  10. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Thank you. That answered my question.

    Both groups are wrong but the third group that allowed the conflict is really to blame.
    Technically, the white supremacist group is not wrong in this story. They have permit to peacefully protest and they were doing just that up until they were confronted by anti fascist group(whatever that means). I won't fault them for refusing to share their protest time with their opponents.
    Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling…makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another, I’d rather not choose at all. Geralt of Rivia

    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Technically, the white supremacist group is not wrong in this story. They have permit to peacefully protest and they were doing just that up until they were confronted by anti fascist group(whatever that means). I won't fault them for refusing to share their protest time with their opponents.
    Having watched the feeds, I saw nothing that indicated any of them were "supremacist" anything. Sure, some/many might have been racist but that doesn't imply supremacist. In fact, most were simply asking for equality.

  12. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Having watched the feeds, I saw nothing that indicated any of them were "supremacist" anything. Sure, some/many might have been racist but that doesn't imply supremacist. In fact, most were simply asking for equality.
    You are right, I meant to say nationalists not supremacists.
    Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling…makes no difference. The degree is arbitrary. The definition’s blurred. If I’m to choose between one evil and another, I’d rather not choose at all. Geralt of Rivia

    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Having watched the feeds, I saw nothing that indicated any of them were "supremacist" anything. Sure, some/many might have been racist but that doesn't imply supremacist. In fact, most were simply asking for equality.
    Well, they self describe as white nationalists. I think that qualifies as supremacist. No?
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Well, they self describe as white nationalists. I think that qualifies as supremacist. No?
    Not necessarily.
    Note: I want nothing to do with these nuts, the fact that we share some enemies does not make them my friends.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulMall View Post
    Highest ranking Libertarian representative attending the rally, Augustus Invictus
    LOL
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Well, they self describe as white nationalists. I think that qualifies as supremacist. No?
    I dont think so. i can not want to live with or associate with you without thinking i should have dominion over you.

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    cop is announcing that it has been declared an unlawful assembly and warning them to git out
    or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
    Fight fascism by becoming...fascist?

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    From Drudge;

    Police helicopter circling anti-Nazi protest in Charlottesville crashes in woods and explodes into flames

  19. #78

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    Keep poking motherfuckers...

    THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON

    by Rudyard Kipling

    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy -- willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the Saxon began to hate.

    Their voices were even and low.
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd.
    It was not taught by the state.
    No man spoke it aloud
    When the Saxon began to hate.

    It was not suddently bred.
    It will not swiftly abate.
    Through the chilled years ahead,
    When Time shall count from the date
    That the Saxon began to hate.

  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Thank you. That answered my question.

    Both groups are wrong but the third group that allowed the conflict is really to blame.
    Should also be noted that the permitted rally at the Park was scheduled to begin at 12. City declared state of emergency and proclaimed everything an unlawful assembly around 11:55. Right was never allowed to enter park. Instead they were funneled to antifa who violently threw things at them and then were broken up in to smaller groups to further put our guys at a disadvantage. Right spent the next half hour or so walking back to cars and hotels being pestered by cops telling them anyone outside would be arrested. Cops allowed antifa to stay. That's why when the accident occurred all you see in the streets are Antifa. Remember, a state of emergency had been declared hours ago by that point, and everyone was supposed to clear the streets on pain of arrest. But Antifa is still there as if nothing happened and cops are doing nothing. Total screw job. Basically, Right showed, up, got spit on, left, and then somehow Antifa and the Cops managed to kill three of their own people without us even being there! Total and complete victory for our side.

  21. #80

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    Today (August 12th, 2017), the “Unite the Right” rally is scheduled to proceed in Charlottesville, VA. The “Right” being united there isn’t just any “Right,” but one that welcomes white supremacists and self-described fascists. Multiple speakers will say this themselves, and the chants at a chaotic pre-event march the night before included Neo-Nazi slogans.

    The purpose of this letter is to clarify the role for libertarianism in this rally – which is no role at all.

    That clarification is necessary because it might appear otherwise. Three of the listed speakers have at one time or another identified as libertarians: Mike Enoch, Augustus Invictus, and Christopher Cantwell. Mike Enoch previously called himself a libertarian, but now mocks the philosophy as “autistic.” Augustus Invictus previously attempted to run for Senate through the Libertarian Party. Recently, though, he publicly changed his registration to Republican in disgust. Christopher Cantwell now seems ambivalent about his relationship with libertarianism and anarchism, but his primary identification is with fascism.

    Regardless of how any speakers or attendees have identified in the past or present, we want to make clear that this event is not in any way a place for libertarianism. Among libertarians, some identify as “right-wing,” some as “left-wing,” and some as “radical centrists.” Virtually the entire outside political spectrum is mirrored within libertarianism, and this makes for no shortage of infighting. One area where the undersigned have consensus, however, is in a rejection of any attempt to connect white supremacy and fascism to libertarianism. Libertarians, including those who see themselves as on “the Right,” have no interest in uniting with the horrifically authoritarian “Right” – often called the “Alt-Right” – rallying in Charlottesville.

    All this should be exceedingly obvious from even a cursory glance at the two movements.

    On a historical note, modern-day libertarianism largely took root in the English-speaking world through Jewish intellectuals, some of whom fled the Nazis. Our movement grew as a revolt against fascism, Communism, and early twentieth-century progressivism. As Thomas Leonard has shown in his Illiberal Reformers, that third enemy’s intellectual history is closely interwoven with eugenics.

    On the level of philosophy, libertarianism stresses the freedom of individuals even when that freedom goes against some supposed collective will. The entire point behind a politics of white supremacy is to replace free association with endless central planning and regulation on collectivist racial grounds. “Unite the Right” speaker Richard Spencer actively seeks to turn the United States into a 100% white ethno-state. It is impossible to conceive of this happening without a return of the total state and its horrors.

    Despite the obvious incompatibility of that totalitarianism and libertarianism (of any kind), an attempted association between the two is unsurprising. Attempts at rebooting authoritarian movements often operate through a tactic called entryism. Entryism is where a smaller political movement attempts to capture a larger one and seize its resources. In cases like fascism and Communism, the tendency towards entryism is probably a joint product of amoral opportunism and an inability to rationally defend their views.

    It is necessary, then, for libertarians to restate the exceedingly obvious and insist on the stark differences between our views and those of anyone with any affinity for National Socialist Germany.

    We, the undersigned, affirm such a gulf between liberty and its opposite.
    Hear Hear
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  22. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Origanalist again.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

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    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  23. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Hear Hear
    Says the fascists who prevented Augustus Invictus from running for Senate, lol.

  24. #83

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    Strange how the media is blaming the group with the permit when there would have been no violence had BLM not been brought in.

    There should be an investigation as to how BLM came to be there. Whoever it was, who brought them to protest the rally should be the one who should be punished.
    Last edited by Dr.3D; 08-12-2017 at 08:24 PM.

  25. #84

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    Alright here's what I saw from being with the Alt-Right guys who were actually able to make it to the park.

    After 10AM we started moving towards Lee Park with several hundred people. We didn't make up everyone who attended but we had quite a force and riot shields up front. Antifa was completely blocking the stair entrance to Lee Park. The Virginia State Police were nowhere to be seen keeping anyone apart. We were able to push our way up to the rally point. Many people got spat on and maced and pepper sprayed in the face trying to enter the park by Antifa, including at least one camera man (from Infowars I think) Dozens of people were treated by medics in the groups to counteract the sprays. With that stuff in your eyes and nose you are pretty much helpless. Our guys were pretty much attacked the entire way up. As a side note, we were told there was an anti mask law in Virginia and that anyone wearing gas masks would be arrested so not everyone was equipped for the Antifa attacks. Of course many Antifa were seen wearing masks and I didn't see any arrested.

    Once we got into Lee Park it became more apparent that they may not let the rally take place. Most of the park was barricaded and the people attending the rally were forced to stay pretty close to Antifa. Lee's statue was behind the barricade so we couldn't really get that close to it. Interestingly enough, almost all the State Police were positioned not in between Antifa and the rally, but behind the Alt-right guys. While we had our own people blocking the entrance and keeping Antifa from coming up once we got in position, they pretty much continued to attack the entire time. They had homemade concoctions of some kind that they kept hurling at people up front. They threw rocks, urine, bottles and I think some sort of tear gas at us. A few times it was hard to breathe. I was told one guy got pulled into the Antifa crowd by several people and beaten pretty badly. This entire time the police just watched, mostly from behind us.

    After we made it to the park I'm not sure if any smaller groups were able to make it in. I spoke with a couple fellows who arrived late and had small numbers and were attacked by Antifa and they never made it to the rally spot.

    At some, I believe Antifa starting hurling some kind of tear gas and all the Virginia State police started backing up even further than they already were and sometime after 11:00 the Virginia State Police (who were still behind us) got on the bull horn and said it had been declared an "unlawful assembly" and we had 10 minutes to leave the park or be arrested. Well, then they finally started to go into action. They formed a long line behind us with riot shields and started inching towards us, forcing us towards the Antifa who were still attacking people. (So to stop this "violence" they were forcing us into the people committing violence?) At this point I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I know their barricades were knocked down because we had to get out of the park another way. I don't know how many people had to go down through Antifa as the groups all became fragmented at this point with the police pushing in with nowhere to go. We were unable to walk back to parking so I think most people had to be picked up from a different location. It appeared that Antifa was allowed to stay but they forced us out.

    It seems that they had no attention of ever letting the rally take place. They had most of the park barricaded off, forced us to be right on top of Antifa while ignoring attacks, and positioned themselves right behind us so they could push us right back into them. If I believed in Karma, I might say that's what the State Police helicopter crash was....
    Last edited by Southron; 08-12-2017 at 08:32 PM.

  26. #85

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    The main stream media tells me today that many prominent Republicans are disappointed that Trump did not denounce both white supremacists and the alt right. I didn't realize they were the same thing until the main stream media corrected my thinking today.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/12/politi...sts/index.html

  27. #86

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    The white nationalist movement doesn't have anything in common with libertarianism, but I still support their right to speak freely under the 1st Amendment. It's scary that so many people now seem to think that committing acts of violence against white nationalists is acceptable just because they have abhorrent views.

  28. #87

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    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  29. #88

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    White supremacy is a total canard. Fed speak. The true white supremacist population is minuscule, but the corporate media will never tell you this.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  30. #89

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    Look at these pathetic responses. I feel icky even retweeting. They sound like dolls when you pull the string in their backs.





    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  31. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brett85 View Post
    The white nationalist movement doesn't have anything in common with libertarianism, but I still support their right to speak freely under the 1st Amendment. It's scary that so many people now seem to think that committing acts of violence against white nationalists is acceptable just because they have abhorrent views.
    I'm not a WN but stuff that happened today is just going to radicalise more young people and push more of them into the WN camp. I have met several of them and I think many of them, had they been born a decade earlier, may have been libertarians. It really is becoming "us vs them" for many of these guys.
    Equality is a false god.

    Armatissimi e Liberissimi

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