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Thread: The Declaration of Independence: Where Do We Draw The Line?

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    Default The Declaration of Independence: Where Do We Draw The Line?

    In the first of his series of essays on the Declaration of Independence, George H. Smith began with a review of the case grounds against the Crown: https://www.libertarianism.org/publi...n-independence

    I found Thomas Hutchinson's Strictures earlier this year, and Smith provided some further links, which have been helpful in mapping colonial criticism against revolt. So I knew Hutchinson took Philadelphia to task on alleged crimes, but I wasn't aware the legal basis, and not the philosophical, lay at the crux of Revolution. It seems obvious in retrospect, what with the bulk of Jefferson's case devoted to allegations, but Smith surmises right when he says most people today hallow the second paragraph.

    I know I was never taught the middle-ground colonists on both sides shared. Sure, we learned the Patriots cracked down on the Tories, but always beginning from the implicit: Patriots loved life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but the Tories were pawns in the game of a wicked despot. They had to be silenced, you see, because they stood on the wrong side of history. Well, come to find out, the "Tories" weren't drones, they were skeptics and very reasonable men, with very coherent rebuttals against ascendant Whigism. Their criticisms of rebellion were legal in the mien, but after due investigation of the facts. The truth is, most voices on neither side were arguing from philosophy, but from political realities on the ground.

    Frankly, the loyalists were mostly right. I mean, let's not fool ourselves, the Patriots' ringleaders didn't revolt for warm and fuzzies; they naively believed independence would further their economic interests, not that independence was noble in itself. The assemblies general of several colonies stymied government, on several occasions incited revolt, notably in Boston, over petty and selfish causes. Yet these causes gradually flourished in the public discourse surrounding who was to blame for crumbling order in the colonies. Its interesting that Massachusetts, Hutchinson (rightly or wrongly) deduced, was the primary belligerent and disseminator of revolutionary fervor, because their assemblies often broke their colonial Charter, drawing pretty reasonable reactions from the governors.

    Again I say the loyalists were mostly right, because unfortunately, while many took up arms for the cause of Liberty, there are no winners when brother fights brother. Revolution seldom profits the people - quite often it kills them. As I research the causes of '76, I'm aware again that history is always the legend of the victorious, and the victors are never truly the people themselves. Not to victimize either camp as complete dupes, but I suspect the colonies were fairly divided over the question of revolution, even favoring the Crown, until the delegates in Philadelphia published their Declaration of Independence, effectively punctuating reasoned debate with a declaration of war. By then, there were still avenues for peace, but after the war faction seized the base, the Crown responded as anybody might guess.

    So far from the victims of tyranny and evil, the Patriots just so happened to stand on the right side of history. The American colonies weren't a philosophically bonded and self-aware front, merely factions of men seizing on revolutionary rhetoric and fraternal societies out of self-interest. Although this conclusion may sound familiar, its my point to kindle interest in an honest view of all the events and testimonies of the so-called "Revolutionary Era", as it was by most accounts the culmination of an age of Enlightenment and Liberty, yet the evidence contrarily reveals our Fathers were motivated by basest ambitions, sheer duplicity, and cynical greed the likes of which today make us sick. Maybe I've written a small caution against tossing in with the revolutionary-minded, or maybe I wrote a call for buffs to read through the victors' histories - no matter who they are.

    I guess the lesson is, there are no good guys and bad guys, but if you want to do good, at least have the virtus for political realities to inform your philosophy, before you go stirring mass movements and revolutions. That would be my advice for the democracy makers in Washington, as well as for the possible day, when individually we'll have to decide where, if at all, we draw "the line".
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 08-11-2017 at 03:15 PM.



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    The world is dominated by the corrupt, the virtuous must play "political judo" and choose the right time to latch on to whatever is going in the right direction and add to it's momentum.
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    After the previous 200 years, was the Revolution the right direction?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    After the previous 200 years, was the Revolution the right direction?
    Yes, I would rather live in America than the UK, Canada or Australia etc.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, I would rather live in America than the UK, Canada or Australia etc.
    If the American Revolution, and all that's sprung from it as a consequence, had not happened, its doubtful the UK, Canada, and Australia of today would be similar, so I'm unconvinced the Revolution was ultimately worth it. Which brings me back to the conclusion that gambling lives, and the liberties of the other 2/3 of America, on the revolt was a bad call, unjustified by the political realities themselves, but the war happened to turn out well for the Patriots. It could have easily gone the other direction, but more importantly the colonies didn't need a war in the first place. A faction within the Independence movement, harnessing bursts of mob violence and public fear, stole to the podium and basically sealed our fates in Philadelphia.

    If there's any question what spirit of "Liberty" really motivated our Founding Fathers, just read the various colonies' Test Laws, insane taxes, and raids on perceived or real Tories. Their crimes may pale beside the Terror, but the injustice against their own neighbors, wrapped in a sanctimonious cause as yet to be defined, was still far from under control. That's why I disagree that the American Revolution was ever headed in the right direction, on the ground independence was subverted for the profit of a few. Really, the Independence movement was held as collateral, on the wager a de facto congress would win their illegal war of piracy, against the subjects of a state de jure. Our rights were never so inalienable as they're made out to be, not according to the American way.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    If the American Revolution, and all that's sprung from it as a consequence, had not happened, its doubtful the UK, Canada, and Australia of today would be similar, so I'm unconvinced the Revolution was ultimately worth it. Which brings me back to the conclusion that gambling lives, and the liberties of the other 2/3 of America, on the revolt was a bad call, unjustified by the political realities themselves, but the war happened to turn out well for the Patriots. It could have easily gone the other direction, but more importantly the colonies didn't need a war in the first place. A faction within the Independence movement, harnessing bursts of mob violence and public fear, stole to the podium and basically sealed our fates in Philadelphia.

    If there's any question what spirit of "Liberty" really motivated our Founding Fathers, just read the various colonies' Test Laws, insane taxes, and raids on perceived or real Tories. Their crimes may pale beside the Terror, but the injustice against their own neighbors, wrapped in a sanctimonious cause as yet to be defined, was still far from under control. That's why I disagree that the American Revolution was ever headed in the right direction, on the ground independence was subverted for the profit of a few. Really, the Independence movement was held as collateral, on the wager a de facto congress would win their illegal war of piracy, against the subjects of a state de jure. Our rights were never so inalienable as they're made out to be, not according to the American way.
    Without the revolution the British empire probably would be worse than it is, even if it was better it would be worse than America is even though we never have yet lived up to the dream.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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    I sympathize with the Jeffersonians, but they misunderstood: right end, wrong means.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    I don't know how bad things would be today w/o the US, if things weren't that bad in the colonies to begin with, but its evident in hindsight we got rolling in the wrong direction. The Independence movement was hijacked by the ambitions of a few democratizers, who themselves had no interest in Liberty, only so far as it served theft and their prestige. As a history lesson, the Revolution's real worth is broadcasting the hypocrisy of usurpers as a rule often exceeds that of their predecessor. The informal hierarchies and double-dealing of our government are probably natural continuations of the Founding Fathers' formal work, so I don't know if we've really made inroads toward Liberty, or if we've been marching backwards to Hell with our eyes on a fading horizon. The progressive conceit that there's greatness in our future, if only we grasp it and hold tight, rings empty like the oracle of a fortune teller.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I sympathize with the Jeffersonians, but they misunderstood: right end, wrong means.
    By means, do you think independence could have been achieved peacefully in time, or do you have other means in mind?
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 08-11-2017 at 08:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    I don't know how bad things would be today w/o the US, if things weren't that bad in the colonies to begin with, but its evident in hindsight we got rolling in the wrong direction. The Independence movement was hijacked by the ambitions of a few democratizers, who themselves had no interest in Liberty, only so far as it served theft and their prestige. As a history lesson, the Revolution's real worth is broadcasting the hypocrisy of usurpers as a rule often exceeds that of their predecessor. The informal hierarchies and double-dealing of our government are continuations of the Founding Fathers' formal work, so I don't know if we've really made inroads toward Liberty, or if we've been marching backwards to Hell with our eyes on a fading horizon. The progressive conceit that there's greatness in our future, if only we grasp it and hold tight, rings empty like the oracle of a fortune teller.
    The revolution's "real worth" lies in discouraging lower case democrats from doing what they do.

    ...sort of, for a while...
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    I don't know how bad things would be today w/o the US, if things weren't that bad in the colonies to begin with, but its evident in hindsight we got rolling in the wrong direction. The Independence movement was hijacked by the ambitions of a few democratizers, who themselves had no interest in Liberty, only so far as it served theft and their prestige. As a history lesson, the Revolution's real worth is broadcasting the hypocrisy of usurpers as a rule often exceeds that of their predecessor. The informal hierarchies and double-dealing of our government are probably natural continuations of the Founding Fathers' formal work, so I don't know if we've really made inroads toward Liberty, or if we've been marching backwards to Hell with our eyes on a fading horizon. The progressive conceit that there's greatness in our future, if only we grasp it and hold tight, rings empty like the oracle of a fortune teller.

    By means, do you think independence could have been achieved peacefully in time, or do you have other means in mind?
    R3v wants a world wide Monarchy which he is convinced will bring peace and liberty.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 08-11-2017 at 08:56 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    R3v want[s] a world wide Monarchy which he is convinced will bring peace and liberty.

    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    I'd be alright with a monarchy in the post-apocalypse. Figuratively speaking, we already have a deeply centralized network of individuals and protected interests, but practically speaking? Power's become so compartmental, a monarchy probably can't helm the government without some serious house cleaning, and I don't know how Americans would receive a formal king - then again, we loved FDR.

    So are you NRx, r3v?
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 08-11-2017 at 09:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    I'd be alright with a monarchy in the post-apocalypse. Figuratively speaking, we already have a deeply centralized network of individuals and protected interests, but practically speaking? Power's become so compartmental, a monarchy probably can't helm the government without some serious house cleaning, and I don't know how Americans would receive a formal king - then again, we loved FDR.
    Franklin Delano Bolshevik ought to have been lined up against a wall and shot.

    So are you NRx, r3v?
    I don't identify with idiot nationalist peasants.

    Hear Hear for Moldbug.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  15. #14
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    I don't remember which blog it was, but he (not Moldbug) said something to the effect Landis had colonized Neoreaction. Landis must be one of the serfs, then. I haven't finished my Gentle Introduction, but I'm trying to take it slow on purpose.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 08-11-2017 at 10:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    I don't remember which blog it was, but he (not Moldbug) said something to the effect Landis had colonized Neoreaction. Landis must be one of the serfs, then. I haven't finished my Gentle Introduction, but I'm trying to take it slow on purpose.
    There are a number of people yelping about "neoreaction."

    Most of them have no business speaking, at all.

    ...it is not a mass movement.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  18. #17

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    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ

    They understood the populous needs to be vigilant, we failed, not them.
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just for the record, 99% of the time I say "In my country........" I am actually messing with you people because I know you guys have absolutely no idea what happens in my country.

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of apportionment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    There are a number of people yelping about "neoreaction."

    Most of them have no business speaking, at all.
    That's almost true in every case. Most people need a guru because they can't learn.

    ...it is not a mass movement.
    lol That won't stop Nationalists from popularizing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." TJ


    They understood the populous needs to be vigilant, we failed, not them.
    The USG kill patriots and tyrants all the time, I don't see no trees bro. I kid, I know he meant vigilance. Still, do you think he might have chosen the wrong patriots and tyrants? King George III and his governors weren't exactly tyrants.
    Last edited by Raginfridus; 08-11-2017 at 10:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    That's almost true in every case. Most people need a guru because they can't learn.

    lol That won't stop Nationalists from popularizing it.
    Nor will it stop me from personally insulting them until they shut the $#@! up.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Nor will it stop me from personally insulting them until they shut the $#@! up.
    We'll have to talk more Carlylean after I finish Moldbug. I probably can't quite meet you with respect to Reaction until then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    We'll have to talk more Carlylean after I finish Moldbug. I probably can't quite meet you with respect to Reaction until then.
    I love Moldbug, but Carlisle is an idiot: don't see why Mencius likes him. His "history" is an apology for French bolshevism.

    You want to get educated, read Mises.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  23. #22
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    This reminds me I have a goodreads profile to fix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    This reminds me I have a goodreads profile to fix.
    Who's your avatar?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Who's your avatar?
    My avatar's Matthew. I joined in April, and my picture's taken on top a cistern overlooking the plains.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    My avatar's Matthew. I joined in April, and my picture's taken on top a cistern overlooking the plains.
    I must be missing some allusion...

    ...the photo is you "on top a cistern overlooking the plains"..?
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I must be missing some allusion...

    ...the photo is you "on top a cistern overlooking the plains"..?
    That's right, the picture I use as my avatar - you wanted to know how to find my profile. There are probably a lot of avatars named "Matthew", mine's got a photograph of me standing on top an old cistern, looking out over the plains, somewhere in Kansas.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    That's right, the picture I use as my avatar - you wanted to know how to find my profile. There are probably a lot of avatars named "Matthew", mine's got a photograph of me standing on top an old cistern, looking out over the plains, somewhere in Kansas.
    You'll have to bear with me, perhaps whiskey has finally fried my brain.

    I wasn't trying to find your profile (not sure what that means...), I was just wondering who the person in the black and white photo was.

    If it's you, alright, cool photo.
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "The monarch is a responsible person. The fact that a monarch is responsible "to God alone," rather than to an assembly or a popular majority, is rather shocking to an agnostic mind; but while God cannot be fooled, the masses can. While it is perhaps true that "one cannot fool all the people all the time," it seems one can fool millions for centuries."

    -Ibid.

  30. #29
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    Ok, I thought you were replying directly to my post about my goodreads profile. My mistake, not yours. Anyway, its Eric Voegelin. I've been listening to some of his lectures, and he came to mind when I was looking for an avatar.

  31. #30

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    For myself the grievances were more important than the flowery language. See sig.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

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