Poll: Judge Roy Moore leads competitors in runoff

[Superfluous Man]

Looking for more information on that.

Did find this item: http://www.fox10tv.com/story/2781112...polling-places

That's still pretty different from sheriffs threatening to be on the look out at polling places for anyone with a warrant.

[sparebulb]

Based on the yard signs, Doug Jones is going to win. I haven't seen one Roy Moore sign and I live in Huntsville.

I have no clue how this election will turn out, but there were very, very few Trump signs in my area. Trump won my area and the state.

I think that there are a lot of people who don't want to be targeted.

Or, at least, their signs targeted.

[r3volution 3.0]

Well, anyone can look and see that's incorrect hyperbole.

He's written many dozens of articles over the years.

I took a random sample and found that virtually all of them were about social issues.

He has no voting record; his claim to fame is a stand against the feds for...you guessed it...religious liberty.

His interest in the Constitution or liberty in general is limited to the effect on religious issues.

...not unlike a lot of other GOPers (e.g. during the cake cake episode, it was all about religious liberty, not property rights).

Since our spending tends to fund planned parenthood you are in luck.

Perfect example.

Moore: "Mitch, I just can't vote for this bloated budget. The government needs fundamental reform."

Mitch: "I 'bout I cut the rate of increase in Planned Parenthood funding."

Moore: (heart aflutter) "Where do I sign?!"

Deace is just a fanboy, he has no influence on Moore. Moore was standing up before Deace was born.

Just an example (of a guy obsessed with social issues like Moore and how useful [or useless] they are in practice).

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/could-...e-to-roy-moore

Moreover, voter ID laws also decrease turnout among those who actually are eligible. A study cited in Ross’ case found that turnout in majority-black counties in Alabama decreased 8 percent after the voter ID law was passed—far higher than in majority-white counties.

So 8% of the votes in black majority democrat counties were fraudulent, it's a good thing they passed voter ID.

[William Tell]

Moore: "Mitch, I just can't vote for this bloated budget. The government needs fundamental reform."

Mitch: "I 'bout I cut the rate of increase in Planned Parenthood funding."

Moore: (heart aflutter) "Where do I sign?!"

That's pretty funny. That's how the religious right thinks the Pauls are on weed.

[Zippyjuan]

So 8% of the votes in black majority democrat counties were fraudulent, it's a good thing they passed voter ID.

Two votes in ten years were fraudulent.

[Swordsmyth]

Two votes in ten years were fraudulent.

8% were fraudulent.

[Zippyjuan]

8% were fraudulent.

Documentation?

[Swordsmyth]

He's written many dozens of articles over the years.

I took a random sample and found that virtually all of them were about social issues.

He has no voting record; his claim to fame is a stand against the feds for...you guessed it...religious liberty.

His interest in the Constitution or liberty in general is limited to the effect on religious issues.

...not unlike a lot of other GOPers (e.g. during the cake cake episode, it was all about religious liberty, not property rights).



Perfect example.

Moore: "Mitch, I just can't vote for this bloated budget. The government needs fundamental reform."

Mitch: "I 'bout I cut the rate of increase in Planned Parenthood funding."

Moore: (heart aflutter) "Where do I sign?!"



Just an example (of a guy obsessed with social issues like Moore and how useful [or useless] they are in practice).

Maybe it wasn’t meant that way. From the Times’ piece’s title, “In Sex Crimes and Other Cases, Roy Moore Often Sided With Defendants,” readers may assume the implication is that Judge Moore exhibited the common human tendency to go soft on that of which one is himself guilty. (As with seemingly everyone now, Moore currently faces sexual-misconduct allegations.) Instead, however, the Times paints a picture of a moral, principled judge who often sided with the little guy against the powers that be.

What may surprise many, however, is that judge Moore’s principles, as true principles will, extended to areas that his passions didn’t. As the Times reports, “‘He consistently was more interested in the arguments of the criminal defendants than many of his colleagues,’ said Matt Lembke, an appellate lawyer in Birmingham who has argued several cases in front of Mr. Moore. ‘And I think that stemmed from a distrust of government power reflected in his judicial philosophy.’”
As for Moore’s empathy, the Times provides some striking examples:
When a man on death row missed a filing deadline with a lower court, and when most of the Alabama Supreme Court opted not to review his case, Mr. Moore was one of two justices who voted the other way and said some of the evidence used to convict him seemed deficient.
In another instance, Mr. Moore wrote that a man’s “sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for a nonviolent, drug-related crime reveals grave flaws in our statutory sentencing scheme.”
And in another case, Mr. Moore dissented and said a man’s unpaid meal at a Waffle House should have led to a theft conviction, not a 35-year sentence for robbery. He called the case, which the majority voted not to review, “a serious miscarriage of justice.”
Two lawyers who worked with Moore told the Times that the judge sought to protect those wronged by the system. “‘He had no love for criminals, but he believed that every defendant was entitled to due process of law,’ one of the lawyers, Matthew Clark, said in an e-mail. ‘He saw many cases where the defendants, especially young black men, would be convicted solely on very weak circumstantial evidence.’”
Unsurprisingly — to those acquainted with the soul of a dutiful judge — Moore’s constitutionalism extended beyond social issues and to all areas of his jurisprudence. A good example was the case of a black 17-year-old named Eric L. Higdon, who received 23 years’ incarceration for sexually assaulting a younger boy at a daycare center. Moore dissented from the majority opinion in Higdon’s appeal, reasoning that “while Mr. Higdon was guilty of one form of sodomy, another sodomy law used to convict him was never meant to apply to abuse ‘of children by other children,’ the Times informs. “Mr. Moore wrote that ‘sodomy is an abhorrent crime and should be strictly punished’ but that ‘I am concerned the court is stepping into the shoes of the legislature in this case.’”
This dissent was used against Moore in the Republican primary by his opponent, Luther Strange, who accused the judge of being soft on child molesters. Yet Moore was merely exhibiting discipline, a quality required for a judge to rule contrary to his own will, feelings, or agenda. And without discipline there is no rule of law.

More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...e-on-roy-moore

[r3volution 3.0]

That's pretty funny. That's how the religious right thinks the Pauls are on weed.

They'd be wrong about the Pauls, but more or less right with respect to some of our hippier, nakeder associates...

Like I've been saying ad nauseam, we need to get away from both sides of the culture war.

If they either smell like patchouli or cite the Bible when you ask them what time it is, walk away.

[Swordsmyth]

Documentation?

Originally Posted by Zippyjuan

https://www.thedailybeast.com/could-...e-to-roy-moore
Moreover, voter ID laws also decrease turnout among those who actually are eligible. A study cited in Ross’ case found that turnout in majority-black counties in Alabama decreased 8 percent after the voter ID law was passed—far higher than in majority-white counties.

...

[Madison320]

That's because Jones outspent Moore 10-1. That's a lot of yard signs. And then you have the lefts penchant for vandalism and/or threatening supporters. I do not think yard signs are an indicator.

I know but that was what struck me about the Trump/Clinton race. I didn't see one sign for Clinton and I even traveled up to NJ/NY before the election.

[William Tell]

Based on the yard signs, Doug Jones is going to win. I haven't seen one Roy Moore sign and I live in Huntsville.

Interesting. One thing I've learned about yard signs from campaigns though is people don't get them of their own accord. Jones staffers clearly spent hundreds of hours canvassing your area finding supporters who would allow them to signs up. Generally campaigns like signs to boost morale and turnout. Should be interesting to see the results from your area.

[Zippyjuan]

...

Not having a government issued drivers license is not proof of voting fraudulently. I asked for documented cases. They only found two since 2000.

Now, if voter fraud were a real crisis, these rules would have some justification. But voter fraud is fake news.

In Ross’ litigation, investigators found only two cases of fraud between 2001 and 2010 that would have been prevented by the ID law. Not two thousand, not two hundred: two.

[Zippyjuan]

Interesting. One thing I've learned about yard signs from campaigns though is people don't get them of their own accord. Jones staffers clearly spent hundreds of hours canvassing your area finding supporters who would allow them to signs up. Generally campaigns like signs to boost morale and turnout. Should be interesting to see the results from your area.

Ron Paul used to have lots of yard signs.

[Superfluous Man]

Not having a government issued drivers license is not proof of voting fraudulently. They only found two actual cases of voter fraud since 2000. If you want to vote absentee, you have to send in a copy of your ID.

If they don't have a drivers license, they can use another form of ID, which they can get for free.

Valid ID at the Polls

A voter can use any of the following forms of photo ID at the polls starting June 3, 2014:

Valid Driver's License
Valid Non-driver ID
Valid Alabama Photo Voter ID
Valid State Issued ID (Alabama or any other state)
Valid Federal Issued ID
Valid US Passport
Valid Employee ID from Federal Government, State of Alabama, County Government, Municipality, Board, Authority, or other entity of this state
Valid student or employee ID from a college or university in the State of Alabama (including postgraduate technical or professional schools)
Valid Military ID
Valid Tribal ID
If a voter possesses any of these forms of ID, he/she is not eligible to receive a free Alabama photo voter ID card. The voter must bring one of these photo IDs to the polls on Election Day or place a copy of the ID in absentee ballot materials.

A voter who is required to present valid photo identification but who does not do so will be allowed to vote a provisional ballot as provided for by law.

In addition, a voter who does not have a valid photo ID in his or her possession at the polls shall be permitted to vote if the individual is positively identified by two election officials as a voter on the poll list who is eligible to vote and the election officials sign a sworn affidavit so stating.

http://sos.alabama.gov/alabama-votes/voter/voter-id

When I worked the polls on a university campus in a state that has a similar voter ID law, the majority of the people we turned away for lack of ID in that state were still using ID's issued in other states where they should have been voting, and very well might have voted. Voting in two states would definitely have been fraudulent, and those votes wouldn't turn up in your implausibly low-ball estimate of 2 votes in 10 years.

[r3volution 3.0]

Maybe it wasn’t meant that way. From the Times’ piece’s title, “In Sex Crimes and Other Cases, Roy Moore Often Sided With Defendants,” readers may assume the implication is that Judge Moore exhibited the common human tendency to go soft on that of which one is himself guilty. (As with seemingly everyone now, Moore currently faces sexual-misconduct allegations.) Instead, however, the Times paints a picture of a moral, principled judge who often sided with the little guy against the powers that be.

What may surprise many, however, is that judge Moore’s principles, as true principles will, extended to areas that his passions didn’t. As the Times reports, “‘He consistently was more interested in the arguments of the criminal defendants than many of his colleagues,’ said Matt Lembke, an appellate lawyer in Birmingham who has argued several cases in front of Mr. Moore. ‘And I think that stemmed from a distrust of government power reflected in his judicial philosophy.’”
As for Moore’s empathy, the Times provides some striking examples:
When a man on death row missed a filing deadline with a lower court, and when most of the Alabama Supreme Court opted not to review his case, Mr. Moore was one of two justices who voted the other way and said some of the evidence used to convict him seemed deficient.
In another instance, Mr. Moore wrote that a man’s “sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for a nonviolent, drug-related crime reveals grave flaws in our statutory sentencing scheme.”
And in another case, Mr. Moore dissented and said a man’s unpaid meal at a Waffle House should have led to a theft conviction, not a 35-year sentence for robbery. He called the case, which the majority voted not to review, “a serious miscarriage of justice.”
Two lawyers who worked with Moore told the Times that the judge sought to protect those wronged by the system. “‘He had no love for criminals, but he believed that every defendant was entitled to due process of law,’ one of the lawyers, Matthew Clark, said in an e-mail. ‘He saw many cases where the defendants, especially young black men, would be convicted solely on very weak circumstantial evidence.’”
Unsurprisingly — to those acquainted with the soul of a dutiful judge — Moore’s constitutionalism extended beyond social issues and to all areas of his jurisprudence. A good example was the case of a black 17-year-old named Eric L. Higdon, who received 23 years’ incarceration for sexually assaulting a younger boy at a daycare center. Moore dissented from the majority opinion in Higdon’s appeal, reasoning that “while Mr. Higdon was guilty of one form of sodomy, another sodomy law used to convict him was never meant to apply to abuse ‘of children by other children,’ the Times informs. “Mr. Moore wrote that ‘sodomy is an abhorrent crime and should be strictly punished’ but that ‘I am concerned the court is stepping into the shoes of the legislature in this case.’”
This dissent was used against Moore in the Republican primary by his opponent, Luther Strange, who accused the judge of being soft on child molesters. Yet Moore was merely exhibiting discipline, a quality required for a judge to rule contrary to his own will, feelings, or agenda. And without discipline there is no rule of law.

More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...e-on-roy-moore

That's fine, and speaks well of him as a judge, but doesn't address the issues I was talking about.

You can find many Dems, awful on everything else, with relatively sane positions on criminal justice.

[Swordsmyth]

Not having a government issued drivers license is not proof of voting fraudulently. I asked for documented cases. They only found two since 2000.

Anybody can get ID, they need it to get welfare, if the votes disappeared they were fraudulent.

[William Tell]

Ron Paul used to have lots of yard signs.

Yeah, presidential candidates with cult followings are a little different. Lots of us bought RP material, Bernie and Trump supporters are the same way. Still, if you run into a neighborhood full of signs someone's been busy.

[Swordsmyth]

That's fine, and speaks well of him as a judge, but doesn't address the issues I was talking about.

You can find many Dems, awful on everything else, with relatively sane positions on criminal justice.

Moore believes in the Constitution and has proven he will follow his principles no matter the consequence, he will follow the Constitution on ALL issues.

[r3volution 3.0]

Moore believes in the Constitution and has proven he will follow his principles no matter the consequence, he will follow the Constitution on ALL issues.

Well we'll see (or not, depending on this evening's events).

[Superfluous Man]

Moore believes in the Constitution and has proven he will follow his principles no matter the consequence, he will follow the Constitution on ALL issues.

OK. Now this is going overboard.

[Swordsmyth]

OK. Now this is going overboard.

Pardon me if I prefer my judgement to yours.

[Anti Federalist]

Roy Moore likes Ron Paul.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...96#post6563096

[Madison320]

Moore believes in the Constitution and has proven he will follow his principles no matter the consequence, he will follow the Constitution on ALL issues.

Based on what? Does he have a voting history? I thought this was his first legislative position. Every politician claims they follow the constitution until they get in office.

[Swordsmyth]

Based on what? Does he have a voting history? I thought this was his first legislative position. Every politician claims they follow the constitution until they get in office.

His judicial history, besides the well known incidents we have this:

Maybe it wasn’t meant that way. From the Times’ piece’s title, “In Sex Crimes and Other Cases, Roy Moore Often Sided With Defendants,” readers may assume the implication is that Judge Moore exhibited the common human tendency to go soft on that of which one is himself guilty. (As with seemingly everyone now, Moore currently faces sexual-misconduct allegations.) Instead, however, the Times paints a picture of a moral, principled judge who often sided with the little guy against the powers that be.

What may surprise many, however, is that judge Moore’s principles, as true principles will, extended to areas that his passions didn’t. As the Times reports, “‘He consistently was more interested in the arguments of the criminal defendants than many of his colleagues,’ said Matt Lembke, an appellate lawyer in Birmingham who has argued several cases in front of Mr. Moore. ‘And I think that stemmed from a distrust of government power reflected in his judicial philosophy.’”
As for Moore’s empathy, the Times provides some striking examples:
When a man on death row missed a filing deadline with a lower court, and when most of the Alabama Supreme Court opted not to review his case, Mr. Moore was one of two justices who voted the other way and said some of the evidence used to convict him seemed deficient.
In another instance, Mr. Moore wrote that a man’s “sentence of life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for a nonviolent, drug-related crime reveals grave flaws in our statutory sentencing scheme.”
And in another case, Mr. Moore dissented and said a man’s unpaid meal at a Waffle House should have led to a theft conviction, not a 35-year sentence for robbery. He called the case, which the majority voted not to review, “a serious miscarriage of justice.”
Two lawyers who worked with Moore told the Times that the judge sought to protect those wronged by the system. “‘He had no love for criminals, but he believed that every defendant was entitled to due process of law,’ one of the lawyers, Matthew Clark, said in an e-mail. ‘He saw many cases where the defendants, especially young black men, would be convicted solely on very weak circumstantial evidence.’”
Unsurprisingly — to those acquainted with the soul of a dutiful judge — Moore’s constitutionalism extended beyond social issues and to all areas of his jurisprudence. A good example was the case of a black 17-year-old named Eric L. Higdon, who received 23 years’ incarceration for sexually assaulting a younger boy at a daycare center. Moore dissented from the majority opinion in Higdon’s appeal, reasoning that “while Mr. Higdon was guilty of one form of sodomy, another sodomy law used to convict him was never meant to apply to abuse ‘of children by other children,’ the Times informs. “Mr. Moore wrote that ‘sodomy is an abhorrent crime and should be strictly punished’ but that ‘I am concerned the court is stepping into the shoes of the legislature in this case.’”
This dissent was used against Moore in the Republican primary by his opponent, Luther Strange, who accused the judge of being soft on child molesters. Yet Moore was merely exhibiting discipline, a quality required for a judge to rule contrary to his own will, feelings, or agenda. And without discipline there is no rule of law.

More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...e-on-roy-moore

[William Tell]

Real news article from fakenews aldotcom, last minute push to stop Moore.

Alabama man - citing Richard Shelby, Condoleezza Rice - votes Nick Saban for U.S. Senate

[Swordsmyth]

Real news article from fakenews aldotcom, last minute push to stop Moore.

Alabama man - citing Richard Shelby, Condoleezza Rice - votes Nick Saban for U.S. Senate

They found one!

[Madison320]

His judicial history, besides the well known incidents we have this:

I'm just not seeing how that helps predict how he'll vote on things like SS, minimum wage, defense, health care, etc.

About the only thing I've noticed that helps predict how a politician does once in office is when they refer to themselves as libertarian.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm just not seeing how that helps predict how he'll vote on things like SS, minimum wage, defense, health care, etc.

About the only thing I've noticed that helps predict how a politician does once in office is when they refer to themselves as libertarian.

It demonstrates his strict interpretation of the Constitution and a strict interpretation of the Constitution will yield correct votes on things like SS, minimum wage, defense, health care, etc.