Aetna Exit Obamacare Exchanges

[nikcers]

I think that the AMA indeed has far too much control over the markets, but that still doesn't give the federal government the right to dictate insurer standards within the individual states. Nor does it give the federal government the right to take away the rights of the states on behalf on the insurers.

I'm already resigned to the fact this is going to happen. And it will piss me off every time I have to say, "I told you so!" when costs don't go down and the number of providers shrinks.

JC Morgan/Chase? Try Kaiser-Humana! Highmark-Cigna!

It frustrates me to see people fall for the same exact shenanigans repeatedly.

Well yes less insurance, more health care. If I am shot I need insurance If I get a cold I need healthcare. This healthcare industry is a ponzi scheme that punishes sick people in order to enrich the state and the medical industrial complex. It frustrates me when people try to take someones argument and make absurd analogies in order to make the argument mean something else. How will cutting middle men out of the people exchanging value raise prices? How will making people price conscious and shop around raise prices?

[Ender]

Well yes less insurance, more health care. If I am shot I need insurance If I get a cold I need healthcare. This healthcare industry is a ponzi scheme that punishes sick people in order to enrich the state and the medical industrial complex. It frustrates me when people try to take someones argument and make absurd analogies in order to make the argument mean something else. How will cutting middle men out of the people exchanging value raise prices? How will making people price conscious and shop around raise prices?

The ONLY answer is: take .gov completely out of healthcare and let free markets reign.

[nikcers]

The ONLY answer is: take .gov completely out of healthcare and let free markets reign.

What people don't understand is if you take the government out of insurance markets it becomes insurance again and not the $#@! show ponzi scheme that it is where the government socializes the insurance companies losses.

[Ender]

What people don't understand is if you take the government out of insurance markets it becomes insurance again and not the $#@! show ponzi scheme that it is where the government socializes the insurance companies losses.

Agree.

[angelatc]

Well yes less insurance, more health care. If I am shot I need insurance If I get a cold I need healthcare.

If you get a cold, you don't need to visit the doctor at all. If you get shot, you need healthcare. Having insurance just means you are having someone else pay for it, with the caveat that the other payers agreed.

. How will cutting middle men out of the people exchanging value raise prices? How will making people price conscious and shop around raise prices?

It won't, of course. The argument is always that when you need emergency services you don't have the luxury of shopping around. But I don't think most medical care is actually emergency. And there's even different levels of emergencies. I can imagine a walk-in clinic advertising $5.00 per stitch. I might go to the hospital when I gash my hand, but if I saw they charged me $2000 for 10 stitches, I'm going to go to the walk-in next time. And tell my friends as well.

Not to mention when I look at my gushing hand, I would be inclined to think "Damn - that's gonna cost me $100 with the $50 office visit and the 10 stitches."

[nikcers]

If you get a cold, you don't need to visit the doctor at all. If you get shot, you need healthcare. Having insurance just means you are having someone else pay for it, with the caveat that the other payers agreed."

No that's how crony American health insurance monopoly one of the cogs of the failed ponzi scheme medical industrial complex fails. If i get into a car accident my insurance policy is in place with the insurance company. It has nothing to do with other people, and other people generally don't effect my costs unless I choose to live next to them, and its a risk for the insurance company, so the costs are higher. I am talking liberty, not state health care.

[angelatc]

Well yes less insurance, more health care. If I am shot I need insurance If I get a cold I need healthcare.

If you get a cold, you don't need to visit the doctor at all. If you get shot, you need healthcare. Having insurance just means you are having someone else pay for it, with the caveat that the other payers agreed.

. How will cutting middle men out of the people exchanging value raise prices? How will making people price conscious and shop around raise prices?

It won't, of course. The argument is always that when you need emergency services you don't have the luxury of shopping around. But I don't think most medical care is actually emergency. And there's even different levels of emergencies. I can imagine a walk-in clinic advertising $5.00 per stitch. I might go to the hospital when I gash my hand, but if I saw they charged me $2000 for 10 stitches, I'm going to go to the walk-in next time. And tell my friends as well.

Not to mention when I look at my gushing hand, I would be inclined to think "Damn - that's gonna cost me $100 with the $50 office visit and the 10 stitches."

[angelatc]

If i get into a car accident my insurance policy is in place with the insurance company. It has nothing to do with other people, and other people generally don't effect my costs unless I choose to live next to them, and its a risk for the insurance company, so the costs are higher. I am talking liberty, not state health care.

Actuaries set rates based on pools of people, and the costs of the area they live in.

[nikcers]

Not to mention when I look at my gushing hand, I would be inclined to think "Damn - that's gonna cost me $100 with the $50 office visit and the 10 stitches."

Yeah but that just means that this is america, and if I am not inclined to think, I should be able to employ someone to think for my best interests like a lawyer or broker, not the medical industrial complex who has to cover the costs of timmys Tumor, so my asprin costs 45 dollars. I've had my car insurance broker begging me to switch companies for months because i'll save so much money. I've never had that experience with health insurance.

[nikcers]

Actuaries set rates based on pools of people, and the costs of the area they live in.

bull$#@! costs go up because of government intervention

[angelatc]

bull$#@! costs go up because of government intervention not people.

Costs go up for multiple reasons.

[nikcers]

Costs go up for multiple reasons.

The government lets them choose the rates, which increase the costs. That's not how markets work, the consumer chooses the cost.

[angelatc]

[QUOTE=nikcers;6507634]The government lets them choose the rates, which increase the costs. That's not how markets work, the consumer chooses the cost.[/QUOTEs]

I'll let somebody else take over here. I have work to do.

[nikcers]

[QUOTE=angelatc;6507637]

The government lets them choose the rates, which increase the costs. That's not how markets work, the consumer chooses the cost.[/QUOTEs]

I'll let somebody else take over here. I have work to do.

your so dishonest you can't even consider the argument that there is an artificial scarcity of product for something that everybody needs that the government creates that never gets created under capitalism? You don't have these shortages and surpluses of product without your socialism. I gather you are part of the medical industrial complex and might be drinking the cool aid? You would be worth more money in a free society.

[angelatc]

[QUOTE=nikcers;6507641]

your so dishonest you can't even consider the argument that there is an artificial scarcity of product for something that everybody needs that the government creates that never gets created under capitalism? You don't have these shortages and surpluses of product without your socialism. I gather you are part of the medical industrial complex and might be drinking the cool aid? You would be worth more money in a free society.

Well, now you're literally imagining things.

[euphemia]

Not really- he didn't do anything at all. (and that is not sarcasm). Congress is to blame. Obamacare does need repairs. One major factor in companies dropping out or raising rates now is the uncertainty of what things will be like in the future. More uncertainty means higher risks and they respond by either not covering at all or charging a higher risk premium.

So you think that a company, responsible for paying salaries and benefits to employees should operate at a loss because governement mandated that they provide an unsustainable product?

[nikcers]

[QUOTE=angelatc;6507642]

Well, now you're literally imagining things.

Come on make your argument for the State's rights, the narrative that the medical industrial complex created to trump arguments of freedom.