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Thread: Breaking: Trump considers withdrawal from Afghanistan

  1. #31

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    If Trump actually pulled the troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria then I am sure we would all get what it is we demand. An actual Congressional declaration of war.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.



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  3. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    President Trump, searching for a reason to keep the United States in Afghanistan after 16 years of war, has latched on to a prospect that tantalized previous administrations: Afghanistan’s vast mineral wealth, which his advisers and Afghan officials have told him could be profitably extracted by Western companies.Mr. Trump has discussed the country’s mineral deposits with President Ashraf Ghani, who promoted mining as an economic opportunity in one of their first conversations. Mr. Trump, who is deeply skeptical about sending more American troops to Afghanistan, has suggested that this could be one justification for the United States to stay engaged in the country.

    In 2010, American officials estimated that Afghanistan had untapped mineral deposits worth nearly $1 trillion, an estimate that was widely disputed at the time and has certainly fallen since, given the eroding price of commodities. But the $1 trillion figure is circulating again inside the White House, according to officials, who said it had caught the attention of Mr. Trump.
    https://www.wired.com/2010/06/no-the...al-motherlode/

    NO, THE U.S. DIDN'T JUST 'DISCOVER' A $1T AFGHAN MOTHERLODE (UPDATED)

    Despite what you may read this morning, the U.S. military did not just "discover" a trillion dollars' worth of precious minerals in Afghanistan.

    The New York Times today proclaimed that Afghanistan is apparently poised to become "the Saudi Arabia of lithium" – a metal used to produce gadgets like iPods and laptops. The discovery will also, according to Pentagon documents quoted by the * Times*, fundamentally transform the country's opium-reliant economy.

    But the military (and observers of the military) have known about Afghanistan's mineral riches for years. The U.S. Geological Survey and the Navy concluded in a 2007 report that “Afghanistan has significant amounts of undiscovered nonfuel mineral resources,” including ”large quantities of accessible iron and copper [and] abundant deposits of colored stones and gemstones, including emerald, ruby [and] sapphire.”

    Not to mention that the $1 trillion figure is – at best – a guesstimate. None of the earlier U.S military reports on Afghan's mineral riches cite that amount. And it might be prudent to be wary of any data coming out of Afghanistan's own Mines Ministry, which "has long been considered one of the country's most corrupt government departments," *The Wall Street Journal*reports.

    And the timing of the "discovery" seems just a little too convenient. As Blake Hounshell at Foreign Policy notes, the Obama administration is struggling to combat the perception that the Afghan campaign has "made little discernible progress," despite thousands of additional troops and billions of extra dollars.

    Still, Pentagon officials are touting the find as a potential economic game-changer – and one that could end decades of conflict. But whether it's oil or coltan, rich pockets of resources are always a mixed blessing. Just ask children in Congo, home to 80 percent of the world's coltan supply, who were forced to mine for the precious metal that was later used to manufacture tech gadgets.

    It'll take years, and a ton of capital investment, before Afghanistan's deposits can even be mined. And when they can, it's anybody's guess who'll actually be profiting.
    But whatever the U.S military knows, and no matter how long they've known it, Russia likely has 'em beat. At a 2002 conference on rebuilding Afghanistan, reps from several countries complained that Russia continued to withhold decades-old information about mineral deposits in the country.
    "The only thing we have to fear is.... fear itself!" Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
    "Be afwaid. Be berry afwaid" Donald Trump.

    The optimists built this country and made it great- not the fearful. Fear can only destroy.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    If Trump actually pulled the troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria then I am sure we would all get what it is we demand. An actual Congressional declaration of war.
    it's much easier to get a new congress that way.

  5. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    If Trump actually pulled the troops out of Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria then I am sure we would all get what it is we demand. An actual Congressional declaration of war.
    Good point.

  6. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Trump considers withdrawal from Afghanistan


    Fake News
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre ó the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  7. #36

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    Trump considers withdrawal from Afghanistan
    "WaPo Neocons": With U.S. general under fire, Afghans fear being abandoned by Trump
    August 5
    washingtonpost
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post


    Fake News

    You may have a point, time will tell.

  8. #37

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    McCain threatens to give his own Afghanistan strategy to Trump

    By Jeremy Herb, CNN
    Mon July 31, 2017


    What is going on in Afghanistan? 01:48


    Story highlights


    • McCain said he would offer an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act in September
    • McCain started his treatment for brain cancer on Monday



    (CNN)Senate Armed Services Chairman John McCain on Monday threatened to present President Donald Trump with his own Afghanistan strategy if the Trump administration won't develop its own.

    McCain issued a statement saying he would offer an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act in September that would provide a strategy for Afghanistan, the 16-year war that has been a divisive issue within the White House.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/31/politi...egy/index.html





    Related

    $50 Million Bill: Army contractor in Afghanistan bought Porsches, Bentley, prohibited guns and alcohol

    by Travis J. Tritten Aug 9, 2017, 10:32 AM


    Details of a Pentagon audit released Wednesday show a contractor hired to train Afghan security forces bought luxury vehicles, alcohol, and prohibited automatic weapons while making lavish overpayments to staff.

    Sen. Claire McCaskill, D- Mo., published the Defense Contract Audit Agency findings of $50 million in questionable expenditures by New Century Consulting and asked Defense Secretary Jim Mattis to explain by Aug. 28 who was responsible for oversight of the contractor. She also wants to know what the Pentagon is doing to reclaim the costs.

    New Century was hired as the prime contractor in 2013. McCaskill said another DCAA audit on the more recent expenses is ongoing and results are expected next year. When contacted by the Washington Examiner, New Century Consulting said it would be inappropriate for the company to comment on an ongoing matter.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ar...rticle/2631006

  9. #38

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    Would love it if true.

    But I'm guessing he means troops to be replaced by Blackwater.

    Blackwater Founder Erik Prince Urges Trump to Privatize Afghan War & Install Viceroy to Run Nation.

    The White House is considering an unprecedented plan to privatize the war in Afghanistan at the urging of Erik Prince, founder of the now-defunct private mercenary firm Blackwater.

    Prince told USA Today the plan would include sending 5,500 private mercenaries to Afghanistan to advise the Afghan army. It would also include deploying a private air forceówith at least 90 aircraftóto carry out the bombing campaign against Taliban insurgents.

    The planís consideration comes as a federal appeals court has overturned the prison sentences of former Blackwater contractors who were involved in a 2007 massacre in Nisoor Square in central Baghdad, killing 17 civilians when they opened fire with machine guns and threw grenades into the crowded public space.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  10. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Would love it if true.

    But I'm guessing he means troops to be replaced by Blackwater.

    Blackwater Founder Erik Prince Urges Trump to Privatize Afghan War & Install Viceroy to Run Nation.
    As Alice said to Ralph "that would be an improvement too"
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Starting to wonder may be being a puppet of war profiteer lobbies is not among the many flaws of current POTUS...
    Well then...
    "The program of liberalism, ...if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property..."

    -Ludwig von Mises

    "Patriotism, not nationalism, should inspire the citizen. The ethnic nationalist who wants a linguistically and culturally uniform nation is akin to the racist who is intolerant toward those who look (and behave) differently. The patriot is a "diversitarian"; he is pleased, indeed proud of the variety within the borders of his country; he looks for loyalty from all citizens. And he looks up and down, not left and right."

    -Erik Maria Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn

    "All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre ó the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

    -H. L. Mencken

  12. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    As Alice said to Ralph "that would be an improvement too"
    It would be an improvement to have unaccountable private mercenary/assassins?

    We need to withdraw regardless but I would think that the privatization of this illegal occupation is worse.
    Last edited by unknown; 08-12-2017 at 11:18 AM.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    It would be an improvement to have unaccountable private mercenary/assassins?
    It would be an improvement to reduce the number of Americans in Afghanistan, It would be an improvement to have mercenary scum do the dying instead of patriotic citizens who joined up to defend their country.
    I want us to leave entirely, but this plan would be an improvement.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It would be an improvement to reduce the number of Americans in Afghanistan, It would be an improvement to have mercenary scum do the dying instead of patriotic citizens who joined up to defend their country.
    I want us to leave entirely, but this plan would be an improvement.
    Fewer Americans, I like.

    "Mercenary scum" being in harm's way vs regular military, I like.

    It was argued during their use in Iraq that they are not subject to the same rules of war.

    Having a bunch of unaccountable killers released onto a civilian population is definitely not a net improvement...
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Fewer Americans, I like.

    "Mercenary scum" being in harm's way vs regular military, I like.

    It was argued during their use in Iraq that they are not subject to the same rules of war.

    Having a bunch of unaccountable killers released onto a civilian population is definitely not a net improvement...
    We will have to disagree on the net value, but in any case I would not propose this plan, I would get us out entirely.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #45

    Default

    Why are we even in Afghanistan?

    Seriously.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  17. #46

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    In before John Bolton, Bill Kristol, and Lindsey Graham throw their tantrums.

  18. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, now he's threatening the government's drug running income.

    He does this, and he's a dead man walking.
    "Withdrawals" never seem to be complete. A contingency of "advisers" can remain to run the drug operation. Unless Trump really wants to go after the Deep State. Then he will need to cut off their black op money tree.

  19. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why are we even in Afghanistan?

    Seriously.
    The opiates, first of all. The CIA had been following him for decades, intelligence knew Osama was in Pakistan, but they also didn't want the Taliban burning their assets' poppy fields. We invaded Afghanistan, under the pretense the Taliban were jihadis, while the poor, secular warlords, who remember dindu nuffin, would bring everlasting security and Freedom to Afghanistan. Well, we remain there, as long as its profitable.

  20. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Would love it if true.

    But I'm guessing he means troops to be replaced by Blackwater.

    Blackwater Founder Erik Prince Urges Trump to Privatize Afghan War & Install Viceroy to Run Nation.
    This most likely would be a spectacular failure and lead to quick end of status quo/16 year old war.

    There were rumors that privatizer lobbyist had Betsy Devos' eyes.






    In some bad luck for Trump, NYT/WaPo neocons have started generating headlines about the war that was mostly pushed under the rug during DGP regime. Civilians' plight is news worthy again.



    US Airstrikes in Afghanistan Are Said to Kill 16 Civilians

    New York Times-Aug 11, 2017
    JALALABAD, Afghanistan — Afghan officials said on Friday that American warplanes killed 16 civilians as they tried to flee an area in eastern ...

  21. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why are we even in Afghanistan?

    Seriously.
    Osama, haven't you heard of him?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  22. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    The opiates, first of all. The CIA had been following him for decades, intelligence knew Osama was in Pakistan, but they also didn't want the Taliban burning their assets' poppy fields. We invaded Afghanistan, under the pretense the Taliban were jihadis, while the poor, secular warlords, who remember dindu nuffin, would bring everlasting security and Freedom to Afghanistan. Well, we remain there, as long as its profitable.
    The new algo is much better! Who did you train on?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  23. #52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Why are we even in Afghanistan?

    Seriously.
    Some reports suggested it was related to booming drug business but there are probably multi-dimensional factors.



    Brother of Afghan Leader Said to Be Paid by CIA - The New York Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/wo...a/28intel.html
    Oct 27, 2009 - KABUL, Afghanistan — Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan ... The ties to Mr. Karzai have created deep divisions within the Obama ...


    The Spoils of War: Afghanistan's Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-spo.....heroin.../91
    Apr 1, 2017 - First published in 2005, updated in January 2015 and April 2017. Author's Note. In the course of the last few, there has been a surge in Afghan ...


    U.N.: Afghan opiate use doubles since 2005
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/37830957/n...ed-last-years/
    Jun 21, 2010 - KABUL, Afghanistan — Use of opiate drugs such as heroin and opium has doubled in Afghanistan since 2005 — with nearly 3 percent of ...


    Heroin epidemic: Why Heroin availability/use has spiked under Obama presidency?





    Afghans' addiction to opium ravages adults, infants - USA Today
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...n.../22851573/
    Feb 8, 2015 - billion in U.S. aid fails to stem Afghanistan's growth as world's heroin supplier.

  24. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well then...
    Even Erik's sister Betsy won't be able to convince Trump.


    Plan to Privatize US War in Afghanistan Gets Icy Reception

    August 12, 2017

    Blackwater founder Erik Prince's controversial proposal to privatize a large portion of the U.S. war in Afghanistan is being met with growing opposition in Kabul and Washington.
    President Donald Trump is reportedly considering the proposal as part of his monthslong review of the war in Afghanistan, where the U.S. is locked in a stalemate with the Taliban after 16 years of fighting.
    Prince touts the plan as a cost-effective way to turn the war around. Under the proposal, about 5,000 contractors would replace U.S. troops currently advising Afghan forces. They'd be backed by a 90-plane private air force. The contractors would operate under Afghan control, Prince said.

    Unaccountable
    But a growing number of prominent Afghans fear that Prince's for-profit, private military would be unaccountable and say the move risks a repeat of the atrocities carried out by Blackwater guards in Iraq and Afghanistan during the 2000s.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/plan-priva...n/3983217.html

  25. #54

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    TODAY - 11:22 AM


    Full Withdrawal From Afghanistan Is An Option: Mattis

    US Defense Secretary said on Monday that “all options” remained on the table over a new strategy for Afghanistan and “full withdrawal” is also possible.

    The US Defense Secretary James Mattis said at a press conference on Monday that President Donald Trump's administration was "very, very close" to finalising its new strategy for Afghanistan but warned it had not been settled yet.

    http://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/...-option-mattis



    Related

    Taliban open letter to Trump urges Afghan withdrawal
    15 August 2017
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-40935422

  26. #55

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    To fair, pressure on him was relentless. Was there any other way for him to go overnight from White Supremacist booster to an anticipated war time hero Prez?


    Trump Gives White Supremacists an Unequivocal Boost
    New York Times Aug 15, 2017


    What an Afghanistan Victory Looks Like Under the Trump Plan
    New York Times Aug 22, 2017



    Esay to throw stones from outside, let's talk after we have walked in his shoes for few days.

  27. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Esay to throw stones from outside, let's talk after we have walked in his shoes for few days.
    I thought POTUS walked in our shoes?

  28. #57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    I thought POTUS walked in our shoes?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  29. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enhanced_deficit View Post
    Even Erik's sister Betsy won't be able to convince Trump.


    Plan to Privatize US War in Afghanistan Gets Icy Reception

    August 12, 2017

    Blackwater founder Erik Prince's controversial proposal to privatize a large portion of the U.S. war in Afghanistan is being met with growing opposition in Kabul and Washington.
    President Donald Trump is reportedly considering the proposal as part of his monthslong review of the war in Afghanistan, where the U.S. is locked in a stalemate with the Taliban after 16 years of fighting.
    Prince touts the plan as a cost-effective way to turn the war around. Under the proposal, about 5,000 contractors would replace U.S. troops currently advising Afghan forces. They'd be backed by a 90-plane private air force. The contractors would operate under Afghan control, Prince said.

    Unaccountable
    But a growing number of prominent Afghans fear that Prince's for-profit, private military would be unaccountable and say the move risks a repeat of the atrocities carried out by Blackwater guards in Iraq and Afghanistan during the 2000s.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/plan-priva...n/3983217.html
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  30. #59

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    Truth will win in the end, bankrupt empires not so much.
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
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