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  1. #61
    "Born in other countries, yet believing you could be happy in this, our laws acknowledge, as they should do, your right to join us in society, conforming, as I doubt not you will do, to our established rules. That these rules shall be as equal as prudential considerations will admit, will certainly be the aim of our legislatures, general and particular."

    --Thomas Jefferson to Hugh White, 1801. ME 10:258
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #62
    bump
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If I walk across a line on a map to seek a job or to try to sell you something or to buy something from you, am I invading? Or do I need to have a gun?
    When 20 million foreigners walk across that line and stay here, and breed like rats at the expense of American taxpaying Citizens, every thinking person would say that is an invasion which our federal government is charged with protecting us against.



    JWK


    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    When 20 million foreigners walk across that line and stay here, and breed like rats at the expense of American taxpaying Citizens, every thinking person would say that is an invasion which our federal government is charged with protecting us against.



    JWK
    So let's get 20 million more police and military (More government! Yay!!!) and search every house and every business and check the papers of every citizen and non- citizen until we find every last one of them! Then Liberty will be restored (or lost)! What did you say your address was? PS- we will need to increase your taxes to pay for it all.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So let's get 20 million more police and military (More government! Yay!!!) and search every house and every business and check the papers of every citizen and non- citizen until we find every last one of them! Then Liberty will be restored (or lost)! What did you say your address was? PS- we will need to increase your taxes to pay for it all.
    Or we can have a proportional response.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Here's an article that argues that the federal government's power over immigration is based on the Law of Nations Clause in Article I, Section 8, Clause 10:

    https://i2i.org/where-congresss-powe...on-comes-from/

    https://www.constitution.org/cmt/law_of_nations.htm

    The meaning of "Offenses against the Law of Nations"

    Art. I Sec. 8 Cl. 10 of the Constitution for the United States delegates the power to Congress to "define and punish ... Offenses against the Law of Nations". It is important to understand what is and is not included in the term of art "law of nations", and not confuse it with "international law". They are not the same thing. The phrase "law of nations" is a direct translation of the Latin jus gentium, which means the underlying principles of right and justice among nations, and during the founding era was not considered the same as the "laws", that is, the body of treaties and conventions between nations, the jus inter gentes, which, combined with jus gentium, comprise the field of "international law". The distinction goes back to ancient Roman Law.

    Briefly, the Law of Nations at the point of ratification in 1788 included the following general elements, taken from Blackstone's Commentaries, and prosecution of those who might violate them:

    (1) No attacks on foreign nations, their citizens, or shipping, without either a declaration of war or letters of marque and reprisal.

    (2) Honoring of the flag of truce, peace treaties, and boundary treaties. No entry across national borders without permission of national authorities.

    (3) Protection of wrecked ships, their passengers and crew, and their cargo, from depredation by those who might find them.

    (4) Prosecution of piracy by whomever might be able to capture the pirates, even if those making the capture or their nations had not been victims.

    (5) Care and decent treatment of prisoners of war.

    (6) Protection of foreign embassies, ambassadors, and diplomats, and of foreign ships and their passengers, crew, and cargo while in domestic waters or in port.

    (7) Honoring of extradition treaties for criminals who committed crimes in a nation with whom one has such a treaty who escape to one's territory or are found on the high seas established with all nations in 1788,

    (8) Prohibition of enslavement of foreign nationals and international trading in slaves.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Or we can have a proportional response.
    Are you suggesting even more police state? Or is the problem not that bad?


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Are you suggesting even more police state? Or is the problem not that bad?
    What do you think?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What do you think?
    More government! Yay!


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More government! Yay!
    Of course YOU think that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Of course YOU think that.
    I did not think you would say it was the other option- that the problem wasn't that bad. Since you want more security at the border you favor more government spending.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-17-2018 at 11:39 AM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I did not think you would say it was the other option- that the problem wasn't that bad.
    It isn't bad enough to nuke Mexico either but that doesn't mean it isn't very bad.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    Seems to me, somebody has been blurring the line between immigration and illegal immigration.

    So often, folks like to omit the illegal part of the later and call it all immigration.

    One is like inviting someone to live with us and the other is just letting someone who broke in to live with us.
    BINGO.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    BINGO.
    Most of those presently here illegally came legally. Should we search every business and household to try to find them and kick them out? Maybe we could get some sort of national biometric ID card to root out the ones using fake IDs. Papers please!


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Most of those presently here illegally came legally. Should we search every business and household to try to find them and kick them out? Maybe we could get some sort of national biometric ID card to root out the ones using fake IDs. Papers please!
    Your point, atop your histrionic head notwithstanding, is taken.

    Were the world different, I'd be on board. It's not. Welfare states attract vermin. Powerful, wealthy lands in conflict with other nations, rightly or otherwise, are vulnerable through borders. If one is serious about defense against malefactors coming across those borders, then he must control them. These are just two of the $#@!ty realities of a world infested with insane people. Half the world would like to eat us. Maybe we deserve that sentiment, maybe not. We either defend against those who would damage us or we lay down. That is the positive reality we face. Which would you rather?
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    Your point, atop your histrionic head notwithstanding, is taken.

    Were the world different, I'd be on board. It's not. Welfare states attract vermin. Powerful, wealthy lands in conflict with other nations, rightly or otherwise, are vulnerable through borders. If one is serious about defense against malefactors coming across those borders, then he must control them. These are just two of the $#@!ty realities of a world infested with insane people. Half the world would like to eat us. Maybe we deserve that sentiment, maybe not. We either defend against those who would damage us or we lay down. That is the positive reality we face. Which would you rather?
    Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Federal forms of welfare- like food stamps, Medicare, and Social Security. Legal immigrants are prohibited for their first five years in the country. It is less of a draw than the opportunity to make a better life is.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Are you suggesting even more police state?
    There is a fundamental difference between defense of the realm and police state, just as there is one between killing in self defense and murder. The acts are superficially indistinguishable, one from the other. But context is king. I shoot the ghost from a man entering my home, uninvited, at 2 AM and I am golden. I shoot the ghost from a man, take his wallet, car keys, and drive off with his Aston Martin, chances are I'm a murderer.

    I believe a "proportional response" was called for, not "more police state". You do this sort of strawman-ish thing a lot, leaving me wondering what is the deal.

    Or is the problem not that bad?
    The "problem" is plenty bad, but I don't think it is nearly what you seem to think it is.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Federal forms of welfare- like food stamps, Medicare, and Social Security. Legal immigrants are prohibited for their first five years in the country. It is less of a draw than the opportunity to make a better life is.
    People cheat and "refugees" get welfare immediately.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Most of those presently here illegally came legally. Should we search every business and household to try to find them and kick them out? Maybe we could get some sort of national biometric ID card to root out the ones using fake IDs. Papers please!
    We don't have to turn into a police state to have enough enforcement to minimize the problem.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    There is a fundamental difference between defense of the realm and police state, just as there is one between killing in self defense and murder. The acts are superficially indistinguishable, one from the other. But context is king. I shoot the ghost from a man entering my home, uninvited, at 2 AM and I am golden. I shoot the ghost from a man, take his wallet, car keys, and drive off with his Aston Martin, chances are I'm a murderer.

    I believe a "proportional response" was called for, not "more police state". You do this sort of strawman-ish thing a lot, leaving me wondering what is the deal.



    The "problem" is plenty bad, but I don't think it is nearly what you seem to think it is.
    I live in a large border city with many immigrants and the busiest border crossing in the world.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

    "I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

    "Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I live in a large border city with many immigrants and the busiest border crossing in the world.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201
    OK, so quoting LA Time is even less credible that NY Times, much less The Enquirer, so you lose point on that bit.

    There are valid reasons for defending a border. Those who cannot or do not acknowledge this are either bereft of sufficient intellect or have unpublished agenda items.

    Rumor has it there are 100K Chinese troops camped in the mountains of MX. I have no idea whether this is true, but if we assume so for entertainment purposes, were tens of thousands of Chinese to begin pouring across the MX border, would you assert that we should simply allow them to pass, unchallenged? Serious question to which I would like an actual answer and not some deflection. Give it a whirl.
    Last edited by osan; 11-14-2018 at 01:50 AM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    OK, so quoting LA Time is even less credible that NY Times, much less The Enquirer, so you lose point on that bit.

    There are valid reasons for defending a border. Those who cannot or do not acknowledge this are either bereft of sufficient intellect or have unpublished agenda items.

    Rumor has it there are 100K Chinese troops camped in the mountains of MX. I have no idea whether this is true, but if we assume so for entertainment purposes, were tens of thousands of Chinese to begin pouring across the MX border, would you assert that we should simply allow them to pass, unchallenged? Serious question to which I would like an actual answer and not some deflection. Give it a whirl.
    Forget the Chinese. We already have middle-easterners crossing. From Yemen specifically. The country we are supporting the Sauds bombing the $#@! out of.

    Jordanian Man Arrested for Smuggling Illegal Aliens From Yemen Across the U.S.-Mexico Border

    The Department of Justice announced Monday afternoon a Jordanian national has been arrested after allegedly smuggling a number of special interest illegal aliens from Yemen into the United States through the southern border with Mexico. Special interest aliens come from countries with ties to terrorism and pose a significant risk to the safety of Americans.

    Moayad Heider Mohammad Aldairi, who lives in Mexico, was arrested at JFK airport in New York. Aldairi is accused of being paid in 2017 to work as a human smuggler and trafficking six illegal aliens into the U.S. through Texas. Accrording to prosecutors, Aldairi worked with others on the scheme.

    ďAldairi allegedly smuggled six Yemeni citizens across the Mexican border and into the United States,Ē Assistant Attorney General Benczkowski released in a statement. ďAlien smuggling puts our national security at risk, and the Criminal Division is dedicated to enforcing our immigration laws and disrupting the flow of illegal aliens into the United States.Ē
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...order-n2505382

    Now, had these Yemeni caused some real civilian destruction in a shopping mall or amusement park I wonder if the open borders crowd would just shrug and say "We'll, that's the cost of freedom of travel."

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    OK, so quoting LA Time is even less credible that NY Times, much less The Enquirer, so you lose point on that bit.

    There are valid reasons for defending a border. Those who cannot or do not acknowledge this are either bereft of sufficient intellect or have unpublished agenda items.

    Rumor has it there are 100K Chinese troops camped in the mountains of MX. I have no idea whether this is true, but if we assume so for entertainment purposes, were tens of thousands of Chinese to begin pouring across the MX border, would you assert that we should simply allow them to pass, unchallenged? Serious question to which I would like an actual answer and not some deflection. Give it a whirl.
    The quote was Ron Paul. I can find other publications quoting it if you like. Tens of thousands of armed people are not the same as a handful of unarmed people looking for a better life (and I do not say we should allow all of them in- just that they are getting a very disproportional fear to any threat they actually pose).

    We do need to be afraid of somebody I suppose. Politicians say we do and they promise to protect us from those if you vote for them. Fear is a very good motivator- works much better than logic. I notice Trump has been pretty quiet on the topic since the election ended. On the campaign trail it was his #1 topic. I wonder why he doesn't talk about it much now. Perhaps it was less urgent than he tried to make it seem. He doesn't have to scare the voters anymore.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-14-2018 at 01:03 PM.


    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    "Yeah, I have to say these guys(trolls) are pretty sharp. Sort of good to get a challenge and sharpen your thoughts." NorthCarolinaLiberty

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The quote was Ron Paul. I can find other publications quoting it if you like. Tens of thousands of armed people are not the same as a handful of unarmed people looking for a better life (and I do not say we should allow all of them in- just that they are getting a very disproportional fear to any threat they actually pose).

    We do need to be afraid of somebody I suppose. Politicians say we do and they promise to protect us from those if you vote for them. Fear is a very good motivator- works much better than logic. I notice Trump has been pretty quiet on the topic since the election ended. On the campaign trail it was his #1 topic. I wonder why he doesn't talk about it much now. Perhaps it was less urgent than he tried to make it seem. He doesn't have to scare the voters anymore.
    A constant trickle of invaders is actually more deadly than a single army, if they came all at once or in a few large groups we would never have let 20+ Million of them in and nobody would be agitating to give them amnesty.

    The caravans are a gamble to see if we have grown so stupid that they can start coming in ever larger numbers but they are failing because the large groups are waking people up to the threat.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    The quote was Ron Paul.
    I don't care if it was said by Jesus, hopping up and down with his hair on fire. I respect Dr Paul much. That doesn't mean I fall on my face, wailing "all HAIL!" every time his name is mentioned. I reserve that for Peter Ross. Look him up.

    Tens of thousands of armed people are not the same as...
    Pity's sake man, use your imagination... those men would likely cross unarmed, pieemeal, only to be rearmed on OUR side of the border. THINK, then type.

    Weaponry could be easily arranged on the US side. The weapons are not the primary concern, but rather the TRAINING and objectives pursuant to which said training has been undertaken.

    ...a handful of unarmed people looking for a better life
    You're calling 10K people a handful? Shirley you jest.

    MX has offered them asylum. They have mostly refused. If a better life, free from whatever oppressions they purport to flee, has been made available and yet they refuse, I can only conclude that they are not nearly so dire of circumstance as someone, somewhere, is claiming. When my parents came across the Austrian border, fleeing the Soviets and Hungarian secret police, they didn't make a fuss when they were placed in a refugee camp outside of Innsbruck. They kissed the ground on which they trod, thankful to be free of the forces that would have seen them imprisoned or murdered. I was there, though yet unborn, so you can say that I am a first hand witness to what it means to be an actual and true refugee of things that merit one's flight.

    Now consider you this, Oh Juan!, and I suspect you've missed it: pray you tell us how, out of nowhere and so all of a suddenly, do ten thousands of people just come together by "coincidence" and decide to march their ways to America? For one thing, there has been no news from their corner of the world indicating anything extraordinary is afoot there, politically speaking. So the first question you should be asking yourself is "why?", or more particularly, "why NOW?" Seriously now, ask yourself that question with the expectation of an answer.

    Now, having been intimately involved with statistics for about three millions of years, I have developed a fair to middling sense of the statistical nature of many things, including most of all, human behavior, which for the most part is almost perfectly predictable along certain lines of consideration. Among those lines would be events such as that which we now see, ambling its way up the MX penninsula toward America the Beautiful.

    Generally speaking, you can't get six people to agree on where to eat lunch. How did ten thousand people agree to come to America all at once? I cannot say how it has come to be, but I can tell you without equivocation how it didn't: by mere chance or circumstance. Unless every news outlet on the planet is remaining silent WRT some major political upheaval in Guatemala, Honduras, or both, there is nothing going on in those places worthy of note. No mass incarcerations, disappearances, or what have you. Life appears as normal. Therefore, it would appear that the sudden congealing of ten thousand souls on the road to the USA represents a fourth-sigma statistical freak show occurrence. So sorry pal, but that dog don't hunt; not for a second.

    That means that those folks have been incentivized by other means. THERE is your $64 question. Who would endeavor to make it worthwhile to ten thousand people to WALK all the way the hell from Honduras to the US border? What would be the payoff for them? Those are the questions that you should be asking yourself, if you are honest and diligent pursuant to knowing the truth.

    There are several credible possibilities, but one that stands out to me is that of setting a precedent. Consider for a moment how this little human caravan resembles those that cross Europe from the Middle East. This one is far smaller, but that is an irrelevant detail, because what counts is the aforementioned precedent. Once we officially say "OK, what the hell, you can come in without any scrutiny", which is precisely that the "left" wants, the flood gates will then have to remain open in perpetuity, effectively eliminating the national boundaries of the United States. Once opened, it will be nearly impossible to close them again without the concurrence of the international "community". Why? Because that is how things like this roll these days. It has been what, nearly three years since Brexit, and UK is still bound to the EU, and that after having gone through the proper formalities. There are no defined formalities for the American situation, meaning that the world can make noises from the point of closing our borders until the sun goes nova. The troubles it would cause stand to be enormous, and that alone is all the reason we need to make sure the precedent is never set. I am, in fact, rather surprised that Obama was not called to face this caravan, as I am pretty confident he would have laid down and opened his legs as he has done so many times in the past. My only explanation is that Trump was truly unanticipated by Themme and perhaps it had been planned to have Hillary do the honors. Being white and born in America, the same objections that would have been raised with Obama's having done so could not be raised with Clinton. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, anyhow.

    (and I do not say we should allow all of them in- just that they are getting a very disproportional fear to any threat they actually pose).
    THEY are not the actual threat, but rather the precedent, particularly given that the "left" wants every one of them admitted without challenge, including Josť Rosa Miguel Vaya Con Dios Marisol Duarte Nosotros Tenemos Las Ebolas Santiago Rodriguez who, as his majestic name suggests, is carrying hemorrhagic fever. For the idiots who compose the so-called "left", it's all good to let them in and RAYcis to turn away even a single soul, though he carry one of several forms of deadly contagion.

    The loss of sovereignty, such as it may be, is the threat pal, not ten thousands of people of questionable motive and integrity. Loss of effective sovereignty, even if only in a comparatively small nibble, is the threat America faces through the loss of our prerogatives to decide who comes in and who remains at the door. Screw that noise.

    I would also point out that if the abstract constructs of nationality can be defeated in this manner, then so can the more tangible ones of individual claims. Giving in to the demands of those who would see America destroyed, whether through direct and intentional malice or simply the ill results of well intended ignorance, is potentially tantamount to renouncing the individual's fundamental rights. It is a VERY short step from "nation" to "individual" in this instance. You and the rest of the people here who are so eager to dismantle "the state" from one minute to the next, need to take a moment to step back and reconsider the practical implications of your lust. I am 100% in favor of autodiathism, the central column upon which anarchy rests. But it is not even remotely possible to achieve such an enlightened state of existence from out current fare through sudden means, barring a reset event, which puts all bets off.

    The world is hella pooched at this time, the minds of most men poisoned with the most deeply toxic fallacies and lies imaginable. One doesn't just come to clarity from one second to the next - not often anyhow. Therefore, the only means of getting to a better state of mind comes only with time and an implacable determination that drives constant pressure in a given direction. We see this today with the "left". They have been at it for 100 years and have done a fabulous job of corrupting each new generation. Unless they really blow it big time, those coming up as toddlers today will be so corrupted with false beliefs - those that destroy rather than affirm life - that we the old farts will not recognize them as human and will therefore be glad to shed our respective coils in escape from the bowels of this monster some of us refer to as the "prison planet".

    Make no mistake - the "left" is going to win almost certainly. Why? Because they have entropy on their side, especially that of attitude. Why work diligently when the man over there, the authority, tells me it's OK to be slacker? And is it not ever so easy to accept those as authorities who tell us the things that we think will make us happy? Something for nothing. No need to work. Don't worry, be happy. Oh $#@! IT. Time to get laid... and so on down the line?

    Let us also not forget the Brain, whose goal is to take over the world. The Brain no longer denies this objective publicly, but trumpets it proudly enough to the deaf ears of a public not wanting to hear, or no longer caring. Pursuant to that goal is the necessary step of the dissolution of independent sovereign states, not to mention the mongrelization of their populations pursuant to the destruction of the respective national cultures and with that, the identities of a people AS a people, thereby weakening the whole to the point it no longer exists effectively as such, but is nothing more than a conglomeration of individuals with no real sense of identity, thereby rendering the mass eminently and easily manipulable.


    We do need to be afraid of somebody I suppose. Politicians say we do and they promise to protect us from those if you vote for them.
    This is a valid point, but it cuts all ways, which you have failed to acknowledge. Bad Juan. Bad, BAD Juan. No soup for you!

    Similarly, spouting what you have spewed here can also mislead people into a false sense of "don't worry, be happy".

    FAIL

    Fear is a very good motivator- works much better than logic.
    True, and it is often valid. Other times, it is not. Here you are attempting to imply the latter when in fact it is likely you have no idea whether it is so.

    The likely case is that none of us know the deeper truths. I am certain we are being manipulated by all sides, but the questions of degree, motivation, and who is telling the greater net truth remains occluded. Therefore, your post fails the smell test every bit as much as do those items of which you have written here.

    But one thing I feel is nearly certain: our national identity, right or wrong, is being challenged in a most deep manner with this little inorganic stunt. Once gone, it will not be returning any time soon. Curse nationalism if it pleases you, but it is not inherently evil, but only when taken too far, which is admittedly often the case. But just because the bathwater has gone fetid with too many bodies in it, one does not toss the infant out the window along with it, eh?

    Simplistic solutions are no solutions at all.



    ETA: Whence the sustenance of these intrepid caravaners? Water? Food? Showers? Etc.? My understanding is that they are po' folk sans pot in which to pee. So how, then, are they surviving for months as they trek across the desert and through the grim Sonora to America? SOMEONE is paying for their provisions. One doesn't carry months worth of provisions on their backs for five seconds, much less months, while trudging ever northward.

    So who, exactly, is footing this bill? Oh, and why, if these people are so abused, do so many of them have cell phones? Whence the funding for months of continued cell service? Or have AT&T and Verizon gone soft?

    Questions. Many many questions, and no clear answers.

    Your apparent position on this matter, it would seem, needs much reconsideration.
    Last edited by osan; 11-15-2018 at 05:39 PM.
    Through lives and lives shalt thou pay, O' king.

    "Itís just interesting to note how constant government oppression can kill peopleís fighting spirit." - Withur We




    Pray for reset.


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