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Thread: Trump Administration to Send Thousands of ICE Agents to Target Sanctuary Cities

  1. #211
    As time has passed I lean more heavily towards regulating immigration with a free and open border being only possible once certain liberties are restored here at home. Pragmatically this will never happen.

    As our liberties erode, mass immigration only strengthens the liberal positions to tax us into submission and watch our every move. I know plenty of citizens support liberal ideals but why keep adding to more to the pot? I'm sick of them to be honest.

    So I've flip flopped a tad on this issue.
    Last edited by Wooden Indian; 07-26-2017 at 09:24 AM.



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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    As time has passed I lean more heavily towards regulating immigration with a free and open border being only possible once certain liberties are restored here at home. Pragmatically this will never happen.

    As our liberties erode, mass immigration only strengthens the liberal positions to tax us into submission and watch our every move. I know plenty of citizens support liberal ideals but why keep adding to more to the pot? I'm sick of them to be honest.

    So I've flip flopped a tad on this issue.

    I'm good with 'regulating immigration' by cutting government involvement....

    Our collective tax-dollars are making it possible for immigrants to live here, spending more isn't going to fix the problem.

    A wall does nothing for the dot-heads in techville or the Asians in healthcare......Repeal all government funding that permits these people advantage over citizens and then repeal all funding that lets lazy citizens eat and breed without working. Repeal all laws that require Dr's to see patients from foreign countries without payment up front, repeal funding for all programs that provide food where local churches won't.

    This $#@! is easy to fix but both sides of the issue want to keep their pets.

  4. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Wrong, the post speaks for themselves. You commented, were called out, you lied, said lie exposed, now you are running away.
    OK. I see what your on about now. The pic you posted shows as nothing but a pic icon to me. You're bent because I neg repped you.

    So, for all the forum to see. Just stop with the bull$#@!.

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    No, as they are no longer able to cross a border thanks to a wall, and laws that prevent them from getting anything for "free".

    Also immigration harms freedom/rights. http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art...3-vinson.shtml

    Maybe we would not have the Patriot Act if we did not allow in muzzies seeing how they always wage jihad. But hey, It guess its better we fall on our sword because "MUH principals" rather then swing them at the necks of our enemies because "MUH NAP".
    About half of those in the country illegally did not sneak across the border- they came legally and stayed. Building a completely Impenetrable wall (impossible) will not keep them out. Most today are coming from Asia anyways- will we build a wall around the ocean?


    Ron Paul:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201

    "I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

    "Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

    Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

    What the country does need, he said, is "a much better immigration service" fed by more resources.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-26-2017 at 12:07 PM.

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's right ignore the rest of what I said since it demolishes your argument, after seceding from those he disagreed with they would be excluded from "our territory" by IMMIGRATION CONTROL, like the immigration control already excersized against "persons infected with disease."
    Excluding people who are already citizens or otherwise members of the group is not immigration control, it is deportation, expulsion, exile, or ostracism.


    ... say to all individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise...
    This is addressing members of the community who wish to engage in enterprises which are detrimental to the society, not immigrants. This message is repeated several times throughout the letter:

    The exercise, by our own citizens, of so much commerce as may suffice to exchange our superfluities for our wants, may be advantageous for the whole. But it does not follow, that with a territory so boundless, it is the interest of the whole to become a mere city of London, to carry on the business of one half the world at the expense of eternal war with the other half.
    Not immigrants.

    We have most abundant resources of happiness within ourselves, which we may enjoy in peace and safety, without permitting a few citizens, infected with the mania of rambling and gambling, to bring danger on the great mass engaged in innocent and safe pursuits at home.
    Not immigrants.

    And all of this to feed the avidity of a few millionary merchants, and to keep up one thousand ships of war for the protection of their commercial speculations.
    Not immigrants.

    Had we carried but our own produce, and brought back but our own wants, no nation would have troubled us. Our commercial dashers, then, have already cost us so many thousands lives, so many millions of dollars, more than their persons and all their commerce were worth.
    Not immigrants.

    When war was declared, and especially after Massachusetts, who had produced it...
    Massachusetts: Also not an immigrant.



    For those interested in seeing the forest rather than fixating upon a single tree, the entire letter can be found here: https://books.google.com/books?id=E_...page&q&f=false It starts at the bottom of the linked page.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Excluding people who are already citizens or otherwise members of the group is not immigration control, it is deportation, expulsion, exile, or ostracism.
    He was talking about secession, after which they would be foreigners subject to immigration control like those who were "infected with disease" already were.


    "Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association, and to say to all individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens, on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease."
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He was talking about secession, after which they would be foreigners subject to immigration control like those who were "infected with disease" already were.
    Thank you for admitting that he is speaking about and referring to people who were already citizens of the United States, not immigrants or other foreigners. Now we can move on to the rest.

    The exclusion from association and territory that he refers to is the secession itself. He says that citizens or states that wish to engage in perilous trade relationships and take sides in wars can do so as part of their own country but not as part of the United States. Again, nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.


    The word exclude does not exclusively refer to those who are not part of the group. Lepers, for example, were excluded from societies and cities through shunning and exile. These people were not outsiders before their infection with the disease. No one would refer to exile as immigration control.
    Last edited by TheCount; 07-26-2017 at 02:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That makes no logical sense; the reference to secession came after the 'persons infected with disease' comment.
    I makes plenty of sense, what he is saying is: "If they don't change we will keep them out of our territory, we will separate from them and not allow them into our half".
    See how the separation comes second as an explanation of the preceding declaration?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    And again, exclusion does not mean immigration control. The word exclude does not exclusively refer to those who are not part of the group. Lepers, for example, were excluded from societies and cities through shunning and exile. These people were not outsiders before their infection with the disease. No one would refer to exile as immigration control.
    Exclusion means: to keep out or to put out.
    You are claiming that Jefferson is proclaiming a policy that is unconstitutional, namely the power to throw people out and strip them of their citizenship. That is ridiculous he is referring to keeping people out after separating from them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    About half of those in the country illegally did not sneak across the border- they came legally and stayed. Building a completely Impenetrable wall (impossible) will not keep them out. Most today are coming from Asia anyways- will we build a wall around the ocean?


    Ron Paul:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...forum-20120201
    We can chew gum and walk at the same time Zip. Have a visa tracking system long with a a wall.

    Keep repeating Ron Paul, he is man and is wrong on this issue.

  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    As time has passed I lean more heavily towards regulating immigration with a free and open border being only possible once certain liberties are restored here at home. Pragmatically this will never happen.

    As our liberties erode, mass immigration only strengthens the liberal positions to tax us into submission and watch our every move. I know plenty of citizens support liberal ideals but why keep adding to more to the pot? I'm sick of them to be honest.

    So I've flip flopped a tad on this issue.
    Because they cant win without rigging the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I'm good with 'regulating immigration' by cutting government involvement....

    Our collective tax-dollars are making it possible for immigrants to live here, spending more isn't going to fix the problem.

    A wall does nothing for the dot-heads in techville or the Asians in healthcare......Repeal all government funding that permits these people advantage over citizens and then repeal all funding that lets lazy citizens eat and breed without working. Repeal all laws that require Dr's to see patients from foreign countries without payment up front, repeal funding for all programs that provide food where local churches won't.

    This $#@! is easy to fix but both sides of the issue want to keep their pets.
    Good luck with that, how can you end those when so many vote for them/depend on them. Molyunx sums this up well. How can you get people to vote against their self interests. And every time you fail to answer it.

    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    OK. I see what your on about now. The pic you posted shows as nothing but a pic icon to me. You're bent because I neg repped you.

    So, for all the forum to see. Just stop with the bull$#@!.
    Wrong, you lied about it, are exposed as a liar, and now trying to change the subject.

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    STOP. NOW.

    THIS RIDICULOUS NAME-CALLING INSULT TIRADE MUST END.

    Only people with no argument insult and call names.
    Calling a liar a liar is not name calling.

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Calling a liar a liar is not name calling.
    One always calls others what they are themselves.
    Last edited by Ender; 07-26-2017 at 05:51 PM.
    There is no spoon.

  15. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Good luck with that, how can you end those when so many vote for them/depend on them. Molyunx sums this up well. How can you get people to vote against their self interests. And every time you fail to answer it.
    Every time eh?

    No imbecile you've never once posed that query to me...

    I'll predicate this response with I do not watch Molyneux.

    I'm not advocating trying to get people to vote against free $#@! and I never have, that is an exercise in futility.

    Hard financial pressure on legislators will get them to vote to repeal, so will social pressure at home, in church and anywhere they try to lead a life.

    One doesn't have to convince millions of sheep like yourself of anything, one only needs to pressure less than 300 people in the entire country....

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Every time eh?

    No imbecile you've never once posed that query to me...

    I'll predicate this response with I do not watch Molyneux.

    I'm not advocating trying to get people to vote against free $#@! and I never have, that is an exercise in futility.

    Hard financial pressure on legislators will get them to vote to repeal, so will social pressure at home, in church and anywhere they try to lead a life.

    One doesn't have to convince millions of sheep like yourself of anything, one only needs to pressure less than 300 people in the entire country....
    Who won't listen if they are elected as COMMUNISTS Demoncrats by double digit margins in every election by barbarian hordes who are dependent on their welfare programs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Every time eh?

    No imbecile you've never once posed that query to me...

    I'll predicate this response with I do not watch Molyneux.

    I'm not advocating trying to get people to vote against free $#@! and I never have, that is an exercise in futility.

    Hard financial pressure on legislators will get them to vote to repeal, so will social pressure at home, in church and anywhere they try to lead a life.

    One doesn't have to convince millions of sheep like yourself of anything, one only needs to pressure less than 300 people in the entire country....



    Touché Tod...Touché.

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Who won't listen if they are elected as COMMUNISTS Demoncrats by double digit margins in every election by barbarian hordes who are dependent on their welfare programs.
    This..

  20. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    One always calls others what they are themselves.
    If you read the posts you would see where he is very clearly lying.

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    If you read the posts you would see where he is very clearly lying.
    I have read his posts and I consider @phill4paul one of the best members on this forum.
    There is no spoon.

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I have read his posts and I consider @phill4paul one of the best members on this forum.
    Not the issue, claimed he did not leave such a remark IE a lie, I showed proof, now he is changing the subject and running away from the lie he committed.

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Not the issue, claimed he did not leave such a remark IE a lie, I showed proof, now he is changing the subject and running away from the lie he committed.
    Uh..... NO.

    He didn't lie and you didn't prove anything.

    You just jump onto threads and start name calling and insulting.

    Wassup with this me-me-me, mine-mine-mine, now-now-now, carp- not enough attention at home? Hmmmmmm?
    Last edited by Ender; 07-27-2017 at 01:07 AM.
    There is no spoon.

  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Uh..... NO.

    He didn't lie and you didn't prove anything.

    You just jump onto threads and start name calling and insulting.

    Wassup with this me-me-me, mine-mine-mine, now-now-now, carp- not enough attention at home? Hmmmmmm?
    Ender, you clearly did not read my posts, go back, read them, THEN comment. OK? I know you can do it, OK?

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Ender, you clearly did not read my posts, go back, read them, THEN comment. OK? I know you can do it, OK?
    Read them ALL, Buddy-Boy.
    There is no spoon.



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  27. #233
    https://twitter.com/Breaking911/stat...30692451192834

    Trump asking for 10,000 more ICE Agents.....

    ICE ICE baby!

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I have read his posts and I consider @phill4paul one of the best members on this forum.
    You also like Zippy.

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You also like Zippy.

    Figures, open border fake Americans are like pees in a pod.

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Figures, open border fake Americans are like pees in a pod.
    You oughta learn to spell before you criticize others.
    There is no spoon.

  31. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    You also like Zippy.
    True- I even like you- go figure.
    There is no spoon.

  32. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    https://twitter.com/Breaking911/stat...30692451192834

    Trump asking for 10,000 more ICE Agents.....

    ICE ICE baby!


    Copsucker

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by RestorationOfLiberty View Post
    Figures, open border fake Americans are like pees in a pod.
    Kinda like Ron Paul?

    http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/border-security/

    Illegal immigrants are a convenient scapegoat for our economic crisis. But with free markets and private property, the need for immigrant labor becomes obvious. Most immigrants, regardless of the color of their skin, are open to the ideals of liberty: private property, free markets, sound money, right to life, low taxes, less war, protection of civil liberties, and a foreign policy designed for peace.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-28-2017 at 12:59 PM.

  34. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    You oughta learn to spell before you criticize others.
    Must be a furriner



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