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Thread: Oregon investigator said Seattle Mayor Ed Murray abused a boy in his care

  1. #1

    Default Oregon investigator said Seattle Mayor Ed Murray abused a boy in his care

    http://kuow.org/post/oregon-investig...d-boy-his-care

    7/17/2017


    Seattle Mayor Ed Murray announced he would not seek re-election, following claims from several men that he had sexually abused them years earlier.

    A child protection investigator in Oregon concluded in 1984 that Seattle Mayor Ed Murray had abused a boy in his care.

    In documents made public by The Seattle Times, the investigator said the future mayor of Seattle should never be a foster parent again.

    The documents, long thought lost, involve one of the mayor's chief accusers, Jeff Simpson, who lived with Murray for a year and a half as a foster child.

    The documents also tell the story of what happened after the investigator decided Simpson had been abused: a county prosecutor withdrew the case from a grand jury.

    “We could not be sure of meeting the high burden of proof in a criminal case – a proof beyond a reasonable doubt and to a moral certainty,” a letter from the Multnomah County district attorney said.

    The Seattle Times published the 1984 Protective Service abuse assessment, the letter from the District Attorney’s Office discussing the decision not to proceed with charges against Murray, and a letter to the Times from Murray’s lawyers. In another letter, the state of Oregon gives its reasons for releasing the documents.

    Documents about foster parents and the children under their care are usually protected. However, Oregon officials told the Times they made an exception because the matter involves a person who is now a public official.

    In a statement released Sunday (full version below), Murray denied abusing Jeff Simpson or any other minor and said the documents provided no new evidence. A total of four men have accused Murray of abusing them when they were teens.

    Murray abandoned his bid for re-election after one of them, Delvonn Heckard, filed a civil lawsuit alleging abuse.

    The lawsuit was dropped last month, and Murray pointed to that as vindication that he had done nothing wrong.

    He endorsed candidate Jenny Durkan for mayor. She did not immediately respond Sunday to requests for comment from KUOW.

    The documents are surfacing just as candidates for mayor are preparing for Monday's KUOW-KING 5 debate.

    Here is Murray's full statement on Sunday:

    I have said from the beginning that I never harmed or had an inappropriate relationship with Jeff Simpson. That remains just as true today as when I first said it. I have never engaged in sexual activity with Jeff Simpson or with any other minor.
    The Seattle Times story today does not change the basic facts of what happened in 1984, nor does it offer any tangible new evidence to buttress Jeff’s claim. More than thirty years ago, Jeff made an accusation against me – and, contrary to what he had previously told the Times and other local media, against another foster parent.
    Those accusations were fully investigated at the time, and the District Attorney decided there was too much doubt to go forward with a case against me or the other foster parent. In fact, after examining the hundreds of pages of documents generated by the investigation, the District Attorney actually withdrew the case from the Grand Jury.
    The Child Protective Services documents the Times based its story on obviously do not tell the full story. Consistent with the findings of the District Attorney that the accusations could not be proven, there is a record with numerous accounts from others who found considerable credibility issues with Jeff and his claims.
    Jeff’s case worker at CPS never interviewed me or shared her findings with me or my attorney. That she believed Jeff's claims at the time and advocated on his behalf is painful to see, but does not change the fact that, based on the totality of the evidence that was collected, the District Attorney declined to file charges.
    The District Attorney wrote that her withdrawing of the case does not mean that Jeff Simpson’s claims are false. But this statement should not be taken to mean that she believed them to be true.
    Thirty-three years ago, I opened my home to a young man who, like all children, I believed deserved a stable, supportive home environment. Given my honest and heartfelt commitment to creating this for Jeff, his accusations were and remain incredibly painful, especially given that none of them are based in truth or reality. It is my sincerest hope now – as it was then – that he is provided the help and support he needs to lead a happy life.
    Last edited by timosman; 07-17-2017 at 01:58 PM.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.



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  3. #2

    Default Seattle Mayor Ed Murray resigns after fifth child sex-abuse allegation

    http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...se-allegation/

    September 12, 2017

    For five months, Seattle Mayor Ed Murray rejected calls for his resignation amid allegations he sexually abused teens decades before entering politics.

    But Murray couldn’t withstand a devastating new allegation from within his own family.

    He announced his resignation Tuesday, hours after news emerged that a younger cousin was publicly accusing Murray of molesting him in New York in the 1970s.

    Murray, a former Democratic state legislator elected mayor in 2013, didn’t appear in public to make the announcement. Instead, he issued a statement saying his resignation would be effective 5 p.m. Wednesday.

    “While the allegations against me are not true, it is important that my personal issues do not affect the ability of our city government to conduct the public’s business,” the mayor said.

    He added he was proud of his accomplishments in a long political career, including landmark gay civil-rights laws and enactment of a $15 minimum hourly wage.

    It was a stunning end to a monthslong drama that has seen five men step forward to accuse Murray of sexually abusing them years ago, when they were teenagers.

    Since the allegations began to emerge in April, Murray has continued to say he is innocent. Though he ended his re-election campaign in May, Murray until Tuesday had insisted he would not resign, despite calls for his exit.

    “The accumulation of these accusations and now coming from a family member just made it essential that he resign,” said City Councilmember Tim Burgess.

    Council President Bruce Harrell will temporarily serve as mayor and will decide within five days whether to take on the role of acting mayor past the Nov. 7 election.

    Harrell may turn down the position of acting mayor because accepting it would require him to give up his council seat. If he demurs, the council will pick another of its members to serve until the election results are certified.

    Durkan entered the race after Murray ended his bid and accepted the mayor’s endorsement. She removed his name from her campaign website Tuesday afternoon.

    Moon first called for Murray to step down in May.

    In a statement, Harrell said his “heart goes out” to survivors of sexual abuse due to “the re-traumatization these allegations have caused…

    “These accusations are unspeakable and require the utmost attention from our legal and social-service system no matter how long ago they might have occurred,” he said.

    The city “must focus on governance and day-to-day business without distraction,” Harrell added, saying he has a plan in place for a “seamless transition.”

    Councilmember Kshama Sawant blasted her colleagues for failing to push Murray out. Before Tuesday, she and M. Lorena González were the only council members to call on the mayor to resign.

    “Unfortunately, the majority of the City Council failed to show any such leadership,” Sawant said. “Establishment politicians and political operatives do not show courage on an ordinary basis, so this is yet another example.”

    Asked why he had held off on calling for Murray’s ouster, Burgess said the new allegations felt different.

    “I don’t know what to believe. I don’t know if we’ll ever know the truth in this situation,” he said.

    Murray’s midday announcement came soon after The Seattle Times reported on allegations by the mayor’s cousin, Joseph Dyer, 54.

    The fifth man to publicly accuse Murray of child sexual abuse, Dyer says he was 13 when Murray forced him into sex when the two shared a bedroom at Dyer’s mother’s home in Medford, New York, in the mid-1970s.

    “We were very glad to hear that he’s resigned,” the mother, Maryellen Sottile, said Tuesday afternoon. “We hope it helps the others in some way.”

    Murray, 62, has repeatedly denied that he sexually abused anyone, contending the accusations are part of a political takedown targeting him for his progressive politics and record as a gay-rights champion. He attributed the latest claims to bad blood between two estranged wings of the family.

    Another accuser, Jeff Simpson, a former foster son of Murray’s who claims Murray began abusing him at age 13, said of the resignation: “I couldn’t believe it. I was like, you know what? God is good. When you’re doing the right thing and don’t quit before the miracle, God takes care of stuff. It’s just on his time.”

    Simpson met Murray while growing up in a Portland group home for troubled children in the late 1970s. He tried to bring attention to his allegation in 2008, when Murray was in the Legislature, but his account was never publicly reported.

    In July, newly released documents showed that an Oregon child-welfare investigator in 1984 had found Simpson’s allegations valid.

    On Tuesday, Simpson said, “If nothing else happens, and nothing else comes of it, for me, I will be OK. Because I believe I got my story out.”

    A third accuser, Lloyd Anderson, who met Murray in the same Portland group home as Simpson, issued a statement through his lawyer.

    “I feel victory, but saddened that it required another victim to come forward for him to resign. I wonder how many other victims are out there,” said Anderson, who has alleged he was paid for sex as a teenager by Murray in the 1980s in Portland.

    Delvonn Heckard, who sued Murray earlier this year over alleged abuse, expressed relief.

    “I mean, at least the public knows that everything I was saying was the truth, right?” he said. “I’m not just some crackhead, some criminal, some street kid, I was telling the truth … It’s not just me, or one or two guys. It’s his own cousin, too.”

    Heckard dropped his case against the mayor in June, saying he would refile. On Tuesday, he said he’s eager to do so.

    “I want to face him so bad. I still want to face him,” Heckard said. “I am going to get my attorney and make sure he’s going to file that lawsuit, now that he’s not the mayor anymore. We need to continue on. He needs to see all of us, all his victims.”

    Though the Seattle LGBTQ Commission and Seattle Human Rights Commission joined council members Sawant and González in calling for Murray to resign this summer, he retained support from others on the council and from four former mayors. That remaining support deteriorated Tuesday.

    “Given the new allegations … the mayor is making the right decision [to resign],” former Mayor Greg Nickels, who before had said Murray should be allowed to finish his term, said in an email.

    Durkan had previously declined to call for Murray to quit. She amended her view Tuesday, shortly before the mayor’s announcement.

    “It’s clear that it is in everybody’s best interest for him to resign,” Durkan said in a statement. “As a parent, former public official and openly gay woman, these allegations are beyond sad and tragic; no official is above the law.”

    Moon on Tuesday reiterated her previous criticisms, saying the mayor’s response to the allegations had been “deeply inappropriate and harmful, especially to survivors, LGBTQ people and young people everywhere.”

    She added, “Survivors of sexual assault must be believed and treated with respect.”

    Simpson summed up the news this way: “Is it justice, is it closure? I don’t know. But this definitely — this is a major step in the right direction.”



    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  4. #3

    Default

    5's a charm....

    He's a prog. Probably will find gainful employment behind the scenes, working on making such things legal.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  5. #4

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    He should land a great job , the dems like to reward pervs .

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    He should land a great job , the dems like to reward pervs .
    Just like how they rewarded Anthony Weiner, amiright?
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just like how they rewarded Anthony Weiner, amiright?
    He is probably making more money now.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Just like how they rewarded Anthony Weiner, amiright?
    They will when the scandal has faded from the public memory.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    He is probably making more money now.
    Maybe so, we don't know for sure. But my problem is that you seem to have make the old timer mistake of believing that the dems and repub are really that different. For every Weiner, there is a Hastert.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They will when the scandal has faded from the public memory.
    Have an example where the dems rewarded their own who was publicly convicted of sex crimes? Btw, Clinton's problem was infidelity with grown women which is not a sexual perversion.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Maybe so, we don't know for sure. But my problem is that you seem to have make the old timer mistake of believing that the dems and repub are really that different. For every Weiner, there is a Hastert.
    There are indeed scum in both parties, but the Demoncrats have more because they promote them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Have an example where the dems rewarded their own who was publicly convicted of sex crimes?
    .
    Barney Frank running a gay whorehouse came to mind immediately.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  13. #12

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    I barely remembered this so I had to go to Google to refresh my memory: Rep. Fred Richmond (D-NY) was arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor. He did not resign and was reelected.

    The page that I found that on had a list of others:

    Rep. Gerry Studds. He was censured for sexual relationship with underage male page in 1983. Massachusetts voters returned him to office for six more terms.
    Rep. Mel Reynolds. The Illinois Democrat was convicted of 12 counts of sexual assault with a 16-year-old. President Bill Clinton pardoned him before leaving office.
    Wayne Hays. The late Ohio Democrat hired an unqualified secretary reportedly for sexual acts. Although he resigned from Congress, the Democratic House leadership stalled in removing him from the Administration Committee in 1976.
    Rep. John Young. The late Texas Democrat increased the salary of a staffer after she gave in to his sexual advances. The congressman won re-election in 1976 but lost two years later.
    Sooo....
    Last edited by angelatc; 09-12-2017 at 11:26 PM.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are indeed scum in both parties, but the Demoncrats have more because they promote them.
    There is this theory that the politicians from both parties that rise to the top tend to me ones with dirt in their background that can be used to blackmail them. I personally think they are just sellouts like Trump, McCain and Obama types. No real need to find dirt in their backgrounds when they are so eager to betray their country for power and a few dollars.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Have an example where the dems rewarded their own who was publicly convicted of sex crimes? Btw, Clinton's problem was infidelity with grown women which is not a sexual perversion.
    Billy boy is a RAPIST whether he was shielded from conviction or not, which is par for the course.

    I have better things to do in life than spend my time keeping track of Demoncrat perverts so I will have to let anyone else who knows more respond to your question, but that kind of thing generally takes place outside of the public eye with a cushy job in some company or think tank.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    There is this theory that the politicians from both parties that rise to the top tend to me ones with dirt in their background that can be used to blackmail them. I personally think they are just sellouts like Trump, McCain and Obama types. No real need to find dirt in their backgrounds when they are so eager to betray their country for power and a few dollars.
    I meant promote perverts culturally, as in:


    Definition of promote

    promoted; promoting transitive verb
    1 a :to advance in station, rank, or honor :raise
    b :to change (a pawn) into a piece in chess by moving to the eighth rank
    c :to advance (a student) from one grade to the next higher grade

    2 a :to contribute to the growth or prosperity of :further
    • promote international understanding



    b :to help bring (something, such as an enterprise) into being :launch
    c :to present (merchandise) for buyer acceptance through advertising, publicity, or discounting

    3 slang :to get possession of by doubtful means or by ingenuity
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I barely remembered this so I had to go to Google to refresh my memory: Rep. Fred Richmond (D-NY) was arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor. He did not resign and was reelected.

    The page that I found that on had a list of others:









    Sooo....
    It's all part of leftist privilege, just like you can be a modern era (1959 to 2010) Demoncrat Senator after having been an Exalted Cyclops of the KKK. (Robert Byrd)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Have an example where the dems rewarded their own who was publicly convicted of sex crimes? Btw, Clinton's problem was infidelity with grown women which is not a sexual perversion.
    C'mon dude, what is the agenda you are so eagerly pushing?
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    C'mon dude, what is the agenda you are so eagerly pushing?
    Well, I was just having a civil disagreement with a fellow member before joined in. But yea, I guess you can say that my agenda on this forum is to expose the fake anti establishment news people like Alex Jones etc, anti interventionism, and finally to dispel the myth that the 2 parties have any meaningful difference between them.

    The question to you is, what is your agenda? what do you stand for exactly? i.e. do you have any principles outside of cheering for the R against the D?
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I barely remembered this so I had to go to Google to refresh my memory: Rep. Fred Richmond (D-NY) was arrested in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor. He did not resign and was reelected.

    The page that I found that on had a list of others:

    Sooo....
    I see your page has so many democrats on it because it is just a partisan website. Go to a website like wikipedia and you would see an array of republican and dems misbehaving.

    Gary Studd had a sexual relationship with a young intern but having sex with young people over the age of consent is not a crime(yet). So the voters deciding to reelect him is not democrats promoting perverts. Heck David Vitter won his reelection after his name showed up in DC Madame's list. Sometimes voters don't care about sexual behaviour of their reps.

    I will give you Mel Reynolds, Bill pardoned him even after he was convicted of pedophilia. That is bad but again, he is done from the democratic part and has no high paying job from the party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

    My list of rep perverts

    Donald "Buz" Lukens Representative (R-OH) Convicted of Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor for having sex with a 16 yr old girl. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and fined $500. (1989)

    Robert Bauman, Representative (R-MD), was charged with attempting to solicit sex from a 16-year-old male prostitute.[46] Upon completing an alcoholism rehabilitation program, the charges were dropped. Bauman apologized to voters for his indiscretions but was defeated for re-election.[47] (1980)

    Jon Hinson, Representative (R-MS), resigned after being charged with attempted sodomy for performing oral sex on a male employee of the Library of Congress.[48] (1981)

    David Dreier, Representative (R-CA), voted against a number of gay rights proposals, but was outed concerning his relationship with his chief of staff. (2004)[95] He is featured in the 2009 documentary film Outrage. *he later went on to win his reelection.

    Scott DesJarlais, Representative (R-TN), admitted under oath to at least six affairs, including two affairs with his patients and staffers while he was a physician Grandview Medical Center in Jasper, TN. Additionally, while running on a pro-life platform, DesJarlais made his ex-wife have two abortions, and tried to persuade a mistress who was his patient, into an abortion as well. *still has his seat.

    My point is that these people on both sides are scums. Its not a democrat thing.
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.






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