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Thread: Repeal and Replace, the elephant in the room: our free cheese faction

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  1. #1

    Repeal and Replace, the elephant in the room: our free cheese faction

    If one does a little research regarding repeal and replacement of Obamacare, they will find countless articles asserting most Americans prefer Obamacare, e.g., see: Americans Prefer Obamacare

    May 18th, 2017

    ”Most Americans prefer the Democratic version of a health-care law to the Republican measure that's now under consideration in the Senate.

    Fifty-three percent of Americans say they favor the Affordable Care Act, passed by Democrats under President Barack Obama, to the GOP's American Health-Care Act, passed recently by the GOP-controlled House. Only 27 percent prefer the Republican bill over the Democratic system, according to the latest survey by Public Policy Polling, a Democrat-oriented firm. This is similar to the findings of other recent polls.”


    The big problem with these polls is, when these polls are taken, they include the opinions of lazy able bodied ticks and fleas who won’t work enough hours to pay for their own health-care needs who are receiving subsidized health-care under Obamacare, and also includes the opinions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders and are likewise receiving subsidized health-care which is paid for by tax-paying American citizens in addition to receiving other tax-payer finance “benefits”.

    Is there any wonder why such a “poll” would end in a majority supporting a democrat style “free-cheese” health-care reform Bill? The fact is, our country’s cheese-eating faction is now at about 50 percent of the nation’s population, and it includes millions upon millions of lazy able bodied blood suckers who are too lazy to work enough hours to pay for their own economic needs. And this is the elephant in the room which our snowflake Republicans are unwilling to remove from our federal government’s free-cheese wagon. Snowflake Republicans in Congress are far more comfortable with raising taxes from hard working American citizens, so they can use such money to buy the votes of our nation’s free-cheese faction.

    I want to see some statistics in which no one is polled who is having their health-insurance and/or health-care subsidized by tax payers. I suspect that the vast majority of American citizens who had privately funded health insurance before Obamacare came along, if polled today, would want to go back to what they had, and keep the federal government’s nose out of their health-care needs and choices. But when you mix the millions upon millions of U.S. residents into a poll who are having their health-care paid for by tax-payers, of course you are going to get very different numbers.

    How about referencing a poll in which the tax-payer, and only the tax-payer ___ a poll excluding tax-getters ___ is represented?

    JWK



    Are we really ok with 45 percent of our nation’s population who pay no taxes on incomes being allowed to vote for representatives who spend federal revenue which the remaining 55 percent of our nation’s hard working and productive population has contributed into our federal treasury via taxes on incomes when our Constitution requires “Representatives and direct taxes Shall be apportioned among the Several States”?



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  3. #2
    Can't find one broken down by taxpayers but I did find one which looks by income levels. It is flash so I can't copy the results here. Higher income is more likely paying more in taxes. Figures as of June, 2017.


    $90,000 a year and more income: 52% are favorable to the Affordable Care Act, 44% unfavorable.

    $40,000 to $90,000 a year, 48% favorable, 45% unfavorable

    Less than $40,000 a year income: 54% favorable, 46% unfavorable

    The question was not did they favor keeping or repealing or changing the Affordable Care Act but rather:

    Kaiser Health Tracking Poll: The Public’s Views on the ACA
    Jun 23, 2017


    The public has remained deeply divided on the health reform law since it was passed in March 2010. Click below to examine how specific groups feel about the law and how those opinions have changed or not changed over time.

    We asked: “As you may know, a health reform bill was signed into law in 2010. Given what you know about the health reform law, do you have a generally favorable or generally unfavorable opinion of it?
    http://www.kff.org/interactive/kaise...520or%2520more
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-13-2017 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Can't find one broken down by taxpayers but I did find one which looks by income levels.
    Totally irrelevant to our free cheese faction.


    JWK




    There was a time not too long ago in New York when the able-bodied were ashamed to accept home relief, a program created by Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1931 when he was Governor. Now, New York City and many other major cities are infested with countless factions who not only demand welfare, but use it to buy beer, wine, drugs, sex, and Lotto tickets.


  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Totally irrelevant to our free cheese faction.


    JWK

    Sorry. I thought the point was that people with more money and could buy their own insurance and pay more in taxes would not support Obamacare. It was the most relevant survey I could find though I agree it did not meet all of the conditions the post wanted. $90,000 a year puts you in the top 15%.

    The big problem with these polls is, when these polls are taken, they include the opinions of lazy able bodied ticks and fleas who won’t work enough hours to pay for their own health-care needs who are receiving subsidized health-care under Obamacare
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-13-2017 at 08:16 PM.

  6. #5

    Why won't Repub. Senators serve the interests of tax payers instead of tax getters?

    I see our snowflake Republicans in the Senate cannot put their foot down and refuse to finance health-care for millions upon millions of able bodied individuals who won’t work enough hours to pay for their own health-care needs, and many more millions who are foreigners who likewise receive subsidized health-care which is paid for by hard working tax-paying American citizens.

    When will our Republicans in Congress start protecting the interests of hard working American citizens, and cut the free cheese given to able bodied blood suckers who are too lazy to work for their own economic needs?

    Have Republican members in Congress forgotten the United States government was created with a fundamental purpose which is eloquently stated as follows?


    "Under a just and equal Government, every individual is entitled to protection in the enjoyment of the whole product of his labor, except such portion of it as is necessary to enable Government to protect the rest; this is given only in consideration of the protection offered. In every bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a regulation, the product of one man's labor is transferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The exercise of such a right on the part of Government can be justified on no other principle, than that the whole product of the labor or every individual is the real property of Government, and may be distributed among the several parts of the community by government discretion; such a supposition would directly involve the idea, that every individual in the community is merely a slave and bondsman to Government, who, although he may labor, is not to expect protection in the product of his labor. An authority given to any Government to exercise such a principle, would lead to a complete system of tyranny." ___ See Representative Giles, speaking before Congress February 3rd, 1792

    Why are Republicans in the Senate determined to keep a system afloat based upon robbery, theft and tyranny!


    JWK


    "To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation." ____ Savings and Loan Association v. Topeka,(1875).

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    I see our snowflake Republicans in the Senate cannot put their foot down and refuse to finance health-care for millions upon millions of able bodied individuals who won’t work enough hours to pay for their own health-care needs, and many more millions who are foreigners who likewise receive subsidized health-care which is paid for by hard working tax-paying American citizens.

    When will our Republicans in Congress start protecting the interests of hard working American citizens, and cut the free cheese given to able bodied blood suckers who are too lazy to work for their own economic needs?

    Have Republican members in Congress forgotten the United States government was created with a fundamental purpose which is eloquently stated as follows?
    ...

    Why are Republicans in the Senate determined to keep a system afloat based upon robbery, theft and tyranny!
    Crony corporatism.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Isn't so great that we have two parties in Washington?! The "Free Cheese" party and the "Cheese for Free" party! Yay!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Isn't so great that we have two parties in Washington?! The "Free Cheese" party and the "Cheese for Free" party! Yay!
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Why are Republicans in the Senate determined to keep a system afloat based upon robbery, theft and tyranny!
    Because the free cheese faction votes, and represents a key part of the Republican base.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Because the free cheese faction votes, and represents a key part of the Republican base.

    If we don’t reverse our federal government’s tax-payers vs tax-getters redistribution policies, we will surely suffer the same fate as Venezuela, Chile, the UK, and other socialist countries which, instead of protecting the people’s inalienable right to succeed or fail at their own hand, have decided to use government force to steal the product of one person’s labor which is then transferred to another group to be used for their personal economic needs, which is an immoral use of government force.


    JWK



    They are not “liberals” or “progressives”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use government force to steal and then enjoy the property which labor, business and investors have worked to create.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    If we don’t reverse our federal government’s tax-payers vs tax-getters redistribution policies, we will surely suffer the same fate as Venezuela, Chile, the UK, and other socialist countries which, instead of protecting the people’s inalienable right to succeed or fail at their own hand, have decided to use government force to steal the product of one person’s labor which is then transferred to another group to be used for their personal economic needs, which is an immoral use of government force.


    JWK



    They are not “liberals” or “progressives”. They are conniving Marxist parasites who use government force to steal and then enjoy the property which labor, business and investors have worked to create.
    He is fine with that, as are most the liberals here are.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Because the free cheese faction votes, and represents a key part of the Republican base.
    There you have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post

    What happens if a large majority of the voters are the tyrants?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    If we don’t reverse our federal government’s tax-payers vs tax-getters redistribution policies, we will surely suffer the same fate as Venezuela, Chile, the UK, and other socialist countries which, instead of protecting the people’s inalienable right to succeed or fail at their own hand, have decided to use government force to steal the product of one person’s labor which is then transferred to another group to be used for their personal economic needs, which is an immoral use of government force.
    Chile doesn't belong in that category.

    You can thank a certain general who reversed its previously socialistic government's tax-payers vs tax-getters policies.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    What happens if a large majority of the voters are the tyrants?
    The tree's still in need of refreshing.



  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    The tree's still in need of refreshing.


    Unfortunately, that is not the whole quote. It's missing a certain element unwilling to pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor.

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure." -TJ

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...

    What happens if a large majority of the voters are the tyrants?

    ...
    That is the reason our type of govt was a Republic and not a Democracy. Yes, both forms of govt have the potential to become ruinous to their own ends, but in a Democracy, you do have tyranny by the majority of the people against all minorities. Just depends on which issue will divide which people to which sides.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Because the free cheese faction votes, and represents a key part of the Republican base.
    Yes, but we've had this argument and you support the idea of people voting for free stuff. Yet the very thing you support you use as criticism of the republican party.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Yes, but we've had this argument and you support the idea of people voting for free stuff.
    Are you going to support this with some off-topic quotes again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Are you going to support this with some off-topic quotes again?
    Sure. Why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320
    If you only allow net taxpayers to vote the minority won't be able to steal from the majority because they'll lose their voting privilege. It's self correcting.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount
    They'll steal in indirect ways. Contracts to their companies and friends and whatnot. See the Russian oligarchs for an example.


    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320
    How can you limit government power in a democracy where everyone can vote? It's impossible as far as I can tell. You can make rules but they'll eventually get eroded away by politicians that buy votes by stealing from the few to give to the many. You need to fundamentally change the election process to fix it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount
    No matter who you give the power of the vote, it's possible for them to erode the protections built into the government over time. I don't see how it would be different if it were a majority or minority of the population. Arguably, a small minority would have an easier time of working together in that direction.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Sure. Why not?
    Seriously, what the $#@!?

    Both of those quotes say that people can and likely will use the power of government to steal from others if they have the ability, not that they should or that it's a good thing.

    Here's my previous post in the same thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    When things go the other way, then the minority steals from the majority.

    The solution is limitation of government power to prevent such theft, not implementation of reforms that just hand the weapons of government to the people that we deem most fit to utilize them against their neighbors.

    I have no idea how you're managing to divine support for "the idea of people voting for free stuff" out of this. It's the exact opposite of what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  23. #20

  24. #21
    Government 'employees' and pensioners are as bad or worse than the free-$#@! crowd.

    There's an equal or greater number and they get bigger checks.

  25. #22

    Federal Employee jobs and salary

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Government 'employees' and pensioners are as bad or worse than the free-$#@! crowd.

    There's an equal or greater number and they get bigger checks.


    Federal Employee jobs and salary

    See: A-Z Index of U.S. Government Departments and Agencies

    Also see: Federal Jobs Overview

    ”Federal government jobs are available in every state and large metropolitan area, including overseas jobs in 140 countries. The average annual federal workers compensation, including pay plus benefits, exceeds $124,000 compared to just $61,051 for the private sector according to the United States Bureau of Economic Analysis.”


    Now tell me, who is the tax slave and who is the master?


    JWK



    If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon the federal government for its subsistence, (Obamacare) we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ____ Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which labor, business and investors have worked to produce.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    [B]Federal Employee [snip]


    Now tell me, who is the tax slave and who is the master?

    Nope!

    Not playing..........And calling you out for being deceitful!

    A "government employee" is anyone whose livelihood only exists due to taxation and that includes state, county and city/municipality 'employees' as well as feds.

    Feds might get larger checks than state-n-county but they all encompass a greater liability than the bread-n-cheese crowd....Besides, they have government issued guns and qualified immunity in many cases....
    Last edited by tod evans; 07-14-2017 at 03:34 PM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Nope!

    Not playing..........And calling you out for being deceitful!

    A "government employee" is anyone whose livelihood only exists due to taxation and that includes state, county and city/municipality 'employees' as well as feds.

    Feds might get larger checks than state-n-county but they all encompass a greater liability than the bread-n-cheese crowd....Besides, they have government issued guns and qualified immunity in many cases....
    I hope big brother didn't see my comments.


    JWK



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    I hope big brother didn't see my comments.


    JWK
    I post using my real name, they don't have to look too hard for me.

  30. #26
    Trump had some free-market ideas in the campaign. I wish Congress would get a clue that Trump didn't come to Washington to bow to them. No doubt Trump has written a business plan or two. He could probably write a bill if he wanted to. It would not be in polispeak mumbo jumbo, and it would be better than anything Congress can poop out.

    Not overfond of Trump, but he signed on for this, and it's his job to make sure it gets done.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Trump had some free-market ideas in the campaign.
    Like these?




  32. #28
    Republicans have pushed Govt Health Care my whole life.

    R Reagan kicked it into gear and all the arguments are about who gets the lion share of profits.
    Never about eliminating it.
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...=660%2C3403781
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Republicans have pushed Govt Health Care my whole life.

    R Reagan kicked it into gear and all the arguments are about who gets the lion share of profits.
    Never about eliminating it.
    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...=660%2C3403781
    Nixon too. A lot of this may sound familiar (though some of the dollar figures are): https://www.nixonfoundation.org/2015...nsurance-plan/

    On February 6, 1974, President Nixon presented his Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan, or CHIP, to Congress in an effort to outline and define his intentions for a health care reform program that would go into effect in 1976. At the beginning of his report, he explains that overall healthcare costs have risen over 20% since 1971, and that the standing average cost of a day-long hospital stay is over $110. On top of the rising cost of healthcare, over 25 million Americans were still uninsured in 1974. 40% of Americans who were insured were not covered for visits to a physician’s office on an outpatient basis, and very few private health care policies covered preventative services. Furthermore, less than half of Americans under the age of 65 and almost none of Americans over the age of 65 had major medical health coverage.

    Nixon’s plan was designed to ensure that doctors were incentivized to work for their patient, not for the federal government or insurance companies. CHIP required no new federal taxes as all parties – consumer, provider, insurer, state government and federal government – had a direct stake in making this system work. There were three branches of health care available within Nixon’s plan: Employee Health Insurance, Assisted Health Insurance, and an improved version of Medicare. Employee Health Insurance would cover most Americans and offered at their place of employment. The cost would be shared between the employer and employee to reduce the financial burden on either side. Assisted Health Insurance was designed for low-income persons where the federal and state governments would pay any healthcare costs beyond what the insured individual could pay. An improved Medicare plan would cover Americans who were age 65 and over through a modified system that provided additional benefits. One of these three plans would be available to every American, but participation in the program was voluntary.

    The benefits of each plan were identical for all Americans, regardless of age or economic status. These benefits would cover hospital stays, physician care, prescription medications, and medical devices as well as other necessary care. There would be no exclusion of coverage based on the nature of the illness or a preexisting condition. CHIP would also cover treatment for mental illness, alcoholism or addiction regardless of where the treatment is administered.

    Nixon also argued that many conditions were preventable from an early age, therefore children should be included in the health care plan. This included preventative care up to age six, eye and hearing examinations, and regular dental care for children age 13 and younger. No family would be asked to pay more than $1,500 per year for out-of-pocket expenses, and low income families would pay even less.

    CHIP mandated that Employee Health Insurance would be required to offer all full-time employees health coverage, while additional coverage benefits could be added if mutually agreed upon. Coverage would be jointly financed, where the employer would pay 65% of the premiums for the first three years, then 75% thereafter. Employees would pay the balance of the premiums, and federal subsidies would be provided to ease the cost burden.

    Assisted Health Insurance was designed for any American who were unemployed, self-employed, disabled, or were low income. Under this plan, premiums, out-of-pocket expenses and deductibles would be relative to the income of the family enrolled. For example, working families with an income of less than $5,000 would pay no premiums at all. Higher income Americans could also acquire Assisted Health Insurance if other coverage plans offered unreasonable rates.

    To improve the Medicare system, Nixon pointed out that Medicare, as it stood, did not cover outpatient drugs or provide any sort of limit for total out-of-pocket costs. CHIP proposed to offer the same benefits provided for others under the Employee Health Insurance and Assisted Health Insurance programs to those covered by Medicare. The limit on out-of-pocket costs would be capped at $750, while public funds would cover the difference for premiums for those with low incomes. In addition, the current Medicare program for the disabled would be replaced by Assisted Health Insurance, which would provide better coverage for those with a low income but high medical costs.

  34. #30
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    ...i wonder what percentage of 'the employed' are government employees?...aren't most/all teachers government employees?..most/all cops, judges/jailers?...most/all medical employees?...most/all military?....a large percentage of lawyers..etc. ad nauseam...

    ...it's confu$ing and frightening for republicrats to contemplate but it seems to me 'the employed' are bigger 'blood-$ucker$' than the unemployed....i'm with tod evans here...

    ...another issue involving 'our' gd miserable 'monetary order' at its core...very very very few republicrats have much of import to add here....

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