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Thread: 'Largest medical fraud takedown in American history'

  1. #1

    Default 'Largest medical fraud takedown in American history'

    'Largest medical fraud takedown in American history': More than 400 doctors, nurses and pharmacists are arrested for heathcare and opioid scams worth $1.3bn in false billing

    By Associated Press and Daniel Roth For Dailymail.com
    PUBLISHED: 16:10 EDT, 13 July 2017

    Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced Thursday that federal prosecutors have charged more than 400 people in taking part in medical fraud and opioid scams that totaled $1.3 billion in fraudulent billing.

    Sessions said that 412 individuals will be prosecuted by his office in what he called the 'largest health care fraud takedown operation in American history' during a press conference in Washington.

    Sessions noted that the case involves doctors, nurses and pharmacists that 'have chosen to violate their oaths and put greed ahead of their patients.'

    Among those charged are six Michigan doctors accused of a scheme to prescribe unnecessary opioids. A Florida rehab facility is alleged to have recruited addicts with gift cards and visits to strip clubs, leading to $58 million in false treatments and tests.

    Officials said those charged in the schemes include more than 120 people involved in illegally prescribing and distributing narcotic painkillers.
    Such prescription opioids are behind the deadliest drug overdose epidemic in US history.

    More than 52,000 Americans died of overdoses in 2015 - a record - and experts believe the numbers have continued to rise.

    'In some cases, we had addicts packed into standing-room-only waiting rooms waiting for these prescriptions,' acting FBI director Andrew McCabe said. 'They are a death sentence, plain and simple.'


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4mkpj7SUe
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."



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  3. #2

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    We are part of the medical community and I see none of this kind of behavior. If anything we see the opposite. There are many many people out there with serious pain issues and they can't get the "good stuff" because doctors are afraid of the goons taking their license. If you are on the prescribing side you would see that doctors are frantically tying to find relief for people with chronic pain. They will send longtime patients who have a new back injury to a "pain clinic" because they will be "investigated" if they write "too many" prescriptions.

    Quite frankly, I have to question whether this story is a bunch of BS from the goons to scare providers into writing even LESS then they currently do. 400?? Let me see the names, or at least the jurisdictions and some numbers per jurisdictions. I think they are making a mountain out of a molehill and shame on those who claim to be "woke up" for believing this story without any meat to it...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

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  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    We are part of the medical community and I see none of this kind of behavior. If anything we see the opposite. There are many many people out there with serious pain issues and they can't get the "good stuff" because doctors are afraid of the goons taking their license. If you are on the prescribing side you would see that doctors are frantically tying to find relief for people with chronic pain. They will send longtime patients who have a new back injury to a "pain clinic" because they will be "investigated" if they write "too many" prescriptions.

    Quite frankly, I have to question whether this story is a bunch of BS from the goons to scare providers into writing even LESS then they currently do. 400?? Let me see the names, or at least the jurisdictions and some numbers per jurisdictions. I think they are making a mountain out of a molehill and shame on those who claim to be "woke up" for believing this story without any meat to it...
    This situation didn't just happen, it has been going on for some years. Opioids are very addicting.

    How about all the people that are hooked on Opioids now, because doctors prescribed them like candy. Now doctors are being cautious so where do you think the people turn to? Heroin--hence the epidemic we are currently seeing around the country.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

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    Give incentives to prescribe opiods. Let people get addicted. Yank it away. People buy on the black market. Black market is run by the CIA. The State makes money off of prosecutions and incarcerations.

    What's the problem?
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    This situation didn't just happen, it has been going on for some years. Opioids are very addicting.

    How about all the people that are hooked on Opioids now, because doctors prescribed them like candy. Now doctors are being cautious so where do you think the people turn to? Heroin--hence the epidemic we are currently seeing around the country.
    My VA doc told me he's not allowed to give any anymore. He told me that 4 years ago the VA demanded "No veteran will leave in pain." Now he says they look over his shoulder at everything. He said he's tired of it and doesn't give a $#@!. Looked at my records and my pronouncements that I'm not a fan of opiods and..prescribed me some. They are sitting in my bug out bag now.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    This situation didn't just happen, it has been going on for some years. Opioids are very addicting.

    How about all the people that are hooked on Opioids now, because doctors prescribed them like candy. Now doctors are being cautious so where do you think the people turn to? Heroin--hence the epidemic we are currently seeing around the country.
    the drugs are just too damn addicting. the drugs have more negative side effects then positive side effects. I blame the medical industrial complex for sure, someones getting rich off the opium addiction, and its our fault for letting the medical industrial complex have a monopoly on medicine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    My VA doc told me he's not allowed to give any anymore. He told me that 4 years ago the VA demanded "No veteran will leave in pain." Now he says they look over his shoulder at everything. He said he's tired of it and doesn't give a $#@!. Looked at my records and my pronouncements that I'm not a fan of opiods and..prescribed me some. They are sitting in my bug out bag now.
    Rush Limbaugh went doctor shopping some years back because he was hooked on opioids. Again this type incidents didn't crop-up overnight.

    My daughter went into labor fives years ago and the first thing the nurse asked if she would like a shot of morphine to lessen the pain. Use to be morphine was used as a last resort, now it is used as a first resort. Then when she was getting ready to leave the hospital they took her blood and told her that they did not want to let her and the baby go because she had opioids in her blood---THAT THEY GAVE HER!! They accused her of being an addict and the baby had Myclonic twitches because of it.

    Thank God for Oath Keepers, Stewart Rhodes called my son-in-law personally with advice and names of attorneys.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

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    Why do people think that if they get a shot of morphine they will instantly become hooked?? That's not the way pain killing medicine works. You can use (as prescribed) for pain and you will not get "hooked". This is just people afraid of something they don't understand. Opium has been used for pain for 1000's of years and it works quite well. If you use it too much, you will be hooked. Again, you have to use it for quite a while and in increasing dosages to ramp up to an addiction.

    It's gotten to the point where some of my wife's hospice patients (you know, the kind who are actively dying) will be concerned about getting "hooked". THEY'RE DYING!!! They don't have time to get "hooked" and why would that even come across their minds?? It's because of all the nonsense going around (compliments of the #goonerment #goonsquad) that these things are bad... and before someone says I don't understand the risk I do - YOU CAN GET HOOKED if you don't follow instructions. If you follow instructions you will get through your pain (if your body will heal) and you will be able to stop when needed. Your doctor will keep a close watch on your consumption, believe me...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Why do people think that if they get a shot of morphine they will instantly become hooked?? That's not the way pain killing medicine works. You can use (as prescribed) for pain and you will not get "hooked". This is just people afraid of something they don't understand. Opium has been used for pain for 1000's of years and it works quite well. If you use it too much, you will be hooked. Again, you have to use it for quite a while and in increasing dosages to ramp up to an addiction.

    It's gotten to the point where some of my wife's hospice patients (you know, the kind who are actively dying) will be concerned about getting "hooked". THEY'RE DYING!!! They don't have time to get "hooked" and why would that even come across their minds?? It's because of all the nonsense going around (compliments of the #goonerment #goonsquad) that these things are bad... and before someone says I don't understand the risk I do - YOU CAN GET HOOKED if you don't follow instructions. If you follow instructions you will get through your pain (if your body will heal) and you will be able to stop when needed. Your doctor will keep a close watch on your consumption, believe me...
    Not all doctors are so careful or so upright.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

    “If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.”

    Lewis Carroll

    “I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.”

    Linus Van Pelt, from the Peanuts comic strip by Charles M. Schulz

    "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith"

    Alexis de Torqueville

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not all doctors are so careful or so upright.
    Not just that but the drugs don't react the same to everyone the same way. I have a coworker who gets heart palpitations from drinking a pepsi (cafeine), and another that hallucinates when she takes benadryl. From a libertarian perspective I don't give a $#@! what you choose, but from a human perspective who has seen so many people addicted to prescription medication I feel for them and wish that we had a better healthcare system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not all doctors are so careful or so upright.
    We don't know of ANY doctor that's not. You cannot practice long in this lawsuit crazy society if you are not triple careful. I think there's a lot of nonsense going around about "bad doctors" and I do not see it. If I do, I'll be the first to sound the alarm. The worst I've seen is a couple of doctors who are not as qualified as they should be but I've never seen any case of doctors deliberately pumping pills. This is not to say it NEVER happens (that would be foolish) but I am saying that in my opinion this is way overblown (perhaps because the goonerment goonsquad has some hand in it?)

    Besides, I thought this was a LIBERTY forum. Don't people here want liberty?? Doesn't that mean you OWN yourself?? Doesn't that mean you should be able to put anything in your body you want. You should be free to see any doctor you want. This means if you want to see a doctor that gives you vials of morphine and tells you to drink it straight from the bottle you should have the right to see this "doctor". This means that if you want to see a witch doctor who tells you that you can cure your cancer by eating a bowl of newt's eyes by the full moon then you should have that right... Liberty has danger. Liberty means you better check out your doctor and see if others are satisfied. Liberty means that if you are hopeless and no "modern" medicine can cure you you should be able to experiment with ANYTHING you want at your own risk.
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    We don't know of ANY doctor that's not. You cannot practice long in this lawsuit crazy society if you are not triple careful. I think there's a lot of nonsense going around about "bad doctors" and I do not see it. If I do, I'll be the first to sound the alarm. The worst I've seen is a couple of doctors who are not as qualified as they should be but I've never seen any case of doctors deliberately pumping pills. This is not to say it NEVER happens (that would be foolish) but I am saying that in my opinion this is way overblown (perhaps because the goonerment goonsquad has some hand in it?)

    Besides, I thought this was a LIBERTY forum. Don't people here want liberty?? Doesn't that mean you OWN yourself?? Doesn't that mean you should be able to put anything in your body you want. You should be free to see any doctor you want. This means if you want to see a doctor that gives you vials of morphine and tells you to drink it straight from the bottle you should have the right to see this "doctor". This means that if you want to see a witch doctor who tells you that you can cure your cancer by eating a bowl of newt's eyes by the full moon then you should have that right... Liberty has danger. Liberty means you better check out your doctor and see if others are satisfied. Liberty means that if you are hopeless and no "modern" medicine can cure you you should be able to experiment with ANYTHING you want at your own risk.

    There's no liberty in this healthcare system. There's no liberty in going to the doctor to get your opium. Don't get me wrong doctors should be able to prescribe anything they want, but people addicted shouldn't be driving the cost of healthcare up, clogging up the system so sick people can't get health care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Besides, I thought this was a LIBERTY forum. Don't people here want liberty?? Doesn't that mean you OWN yourself?? Doesn't that mean you should be able to put anything in your body you want. You should be free to see any doctor you want. This means if you want to see a doctor that gives you vials of morphine and tells you to drink it straight from the bottle you should have the right to see this "doctor". This means that if you want to see a witch doctor who tells you that you can cure your cancer by eating a bowl of newt's eyes by the full moon then you should have that right... Liberty has danger. Liberty means you better check out your doctor and see if others are satisfied. Liberty means that if you are hopeless and no "modern" medicine can cure you you should be able to experiment with ANYTHING you want at your own risk.
    You are right, but this thread is about fraud which is and should be a crime.
    If the doctor is taking bribes to over-prescribe to a patient who has no opinion of his own and is trusting his doctor, then he his not doing his duty to his patient. That is different than if the patient wants more and he is willing to give him more.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

    “If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.”

    Lewis Carroll

    “I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.”

    Linus Van Pelt, from the Peanuts comic strip by Charles M. Schulz

    "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith"

    Alexis de Torqueville

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    Remember the Oxycontin epidemic. FLASHBACK to 1996.

    http://theweek.com/articles/541564/h...utical-company

    [sic]
    On December 12, 1995, the Food and Drug Administration approved the opioid analgesic OxyContin. It hit the market in 1996. In its first year, OxyContin accounted for $45 million in sales for its manufacturer, Stamford, Connecticut-based pharmaceutical company Purdue Pharma. By 2000 that number would balloon to $1.1 billion, an increase of well over 2,000 percent in a span of just four years. Ten years later, the profits would inflate still further, to $3.1 billion. By then the potent opioid accounted for about 30 percent of the painkiller market. What's more, Purdue Pharma's patent for the original OxyContin formula didn't expire until 2013. This meant that a single private, family-owned pharmaceutical company with non-descript headquarters in the Northeast controlled nearly a third of the entire United States market for pain pills.

    [sic]

    Boots on the ground was not the only stratagem employed by Purdue to increase sales for OxyContin. Long before the rise of big data, Purdue was compiling profiles of doctors and their prescribing habits into databases. These databases then organized the information based on location to indicate the spectrum of prescribing patterns in a given state or county. The idea was to pinpoint the doctors prescribing the most pain medication and target them for the company's marketing onslaught.

    That the databases couldn't distinguish between doctors who were prescribing more pain meds because they were seeing more patients with chronic pain or were simply looser with their signatures didn't matter to Purdue. The Los Angeles Times reported that by 2002 Purdue Pharma had identified hundreds of doctors who were prescribing OxyContin recklessly, yet they did little about it. The same article notes that it wasn’t until June of 2013, at a drug dependency conference in San Diego, that the database was ever even discussed in public.


    Now, with big data and mega data were all rats in this lab.
    - SUPPORT FREE TRADE, SMUGGLE -

    2 + 2 = 5.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Why do people think that if they get a shot of morphine they will instantly become hooked?? That's not the way pain killing medicine works. You can use (as prescribed) for pain and you will not get "hooked". This is just people afraid of something they don't understand. Opium has been used for pain for 1000's of years and it works quite well. If you use it too much, you will be hooked. Again, you have to use it for quite a while and in increasing dosages to ramp up to an addiction.
    I wasn't the one who was saying one shot can make people addicted. The hospital did.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    It's gotten to the point where some of my wife's hospice patients (you know, the kind who are actively dying) will be concerned about getting "hooked". THEY'RE DYING!!! They don't have time to get "hooked" and why would that even come across their minds?? It's because of all the nonsense going around (compliments of the #goonerment #goonsquad) that these things are bad... and before someone says I don't understand the risk I do - YOU CAN GET HOOKED if you don't follow instructions. If you follow instructions you will get through your pain (if your body will heal) and you will be able to stop when needed. Your doctor will keep a close watch on your consumption, believe me...
    If you look at what I wrote above--I mentioned about morphine use to be used as a last resort. I would think people in the care of hospice is the last resort.

    My daughter trusted the nice nurse in the white coat and accepted the shot of morphine upon being checked in to give birth. Then they wanted to delay their leaving because my daughter was said to have opioids in her blood, that they initially gave her.

    Lots of people got addicted to Laudanum tincture as well.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    This situation didn't just happen, it has been going on for some years. Opioids are very addicting.
    The fact that opioids are addictive is nothing new. It was well-known before the end of the 19th century because civil war veterans were given morphine for injuries. Same thing after WWI. It's never been a secret and there's no excuse for anyone to feign ignorance over it - and no need to keep preaching about it, either.

    This whole "opioid epidemic" is nothing but a reworking of the drug war. The increase in overdoses isn't due to legally prescribed painkillers, it's due to the fentanyl which comes across the border and is then sold to unsuspecting drug users as heroin. Fentanyl is cheap to produce, so provides the largest profit with the least amount of effort. It only makes sense, that illegal drug providers prefer to sell fentanyl over real heroin, coke, or marijuana - all of which need to be farmed first and then processed.

    If Sessions found less than 120 crooked doctors who were actually prescribing painkillers for profit (and look at the wording - "120 people involved in illegally prescribing and distributing" How many were actually Drs. prescribing? How many distributing? Why is the language always so ambiguous?) it sounds more like proof that only a tiny percentage of doctors are actually over-prescribing for profit.

    In my own experience, it's very difficult to get painkillers and it's getting more and more difficult all the time - and I see a pain management guy! One thing though, it has a lot to do with your own state's laws. Chris "opioid czar" Christie is my governor, so you can only imagine the hoops they put you AND your doctor(!) through, in order to fill a simple prescription for pain meds. No one wants to prescribe them any more - "too much liability", my pain management doctor told me.

    On the other hand, I have a friend in Florida who is a nurse and works in a hospital. After she realized a family member of hers had become extremely addicted to pain pills, she was shocked to learn of the quantity of pills this person was able to obtain by prescription from an assortment of doctors. Very different from my state, where your name goes into a database somewhere, and the doctor can look online and find out if you've been getting pain killers prescribed by other doctors, and when, and in what quantities.

    So, apparently "doctor shopping" happens, but I suspect its limited to just a few areas (like Florida ) and not widespread, like they try to make it sound. I think they want to hide the fact that the increase in usage and all the ODs are really due to our government allowing drug cartel entrepreneurs into the country to corner the drug market.
    Last edited by Valli6; 07-13-2017 at 11:08 PM.

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    I guess it is a good thing we have the government and all its entities to determine what we need and what is good and not good for us.

    I was a practicing nurse and am still licensed. When I went thru nursing school pain was defined as what the patient said it was and patients had a right to pain management.

    In a longterm facility I worked at you could set your watch by people requesting pain medication. One person comes to mind. He would roll up to the nurses station with a big smile on his face laughing and joking with people and say he needed his percocet and or whatever else he could get.

    It was not my place to judge if this person was in pain or not. Besides how could I? Maybe if he didn't get his medications he would have been in total agony an hour later.

    Nowadays the push is to get people off opioids.

    Healthcare today seems to demonize opioids and glamorize mental health drugs like SSRI's?

    SSRI's are addictive. You cannot stop them easily. People go extremely crazy when they get off them. Withdrawal symptoms are terrible.

    When a person is addicted to opioids they don't walk around high, they function on the opioids and that functionality becomes their baseline.

    I think these mental health drugs are the same or worse. They do not cure a persons mental health issues like anxiety, panic, depression. They only temporarily relieve the symptoms at the beginning of the therapy. Later the person develops a new baseline and the anxiety, panic, depression keeps coming back. So the person goes to see a therapist that prescribes higher doses at first and later more medications in conjunction with the ones already taken. Fast forward 30 years and you have a person taking a huge cocktail of medications that were supposed to keep them mentally fit and they are a wreck.

    The only people that benefitted from the SSRI's were the therapists that have weekly customers and Big Pharma.
    Last edited by Schifference; 07-14-2017 at 04:37 AM.

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    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

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    I had shoulder surgery last year. They started me off with 80 Percocets (325/10 - the good stuff). When I went back in for a post-op follow-up, they asked me how many more I wanted. I still had some left so I said none. When they ran out, I admit I was sad that they were gone. They're addictive - I get it. But at no time did I think someone else should be responsible for me.

    That's the way it should be. You could say the doctors were "pushing" them on me - they offered me as much as I wanted. I could have also just taken some to sell them. But I had no interest in either. You see, only I am responsible for the choices I make.

    If it weren't for these stupid prescription laws in the first place, there wouldn't be any fraud necessary. People just get what they think they need to manage their pain. They also need to manage themselves so they don't become addicted.

    So once again... No need for government here. Please move on.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I had shoulder surgery last year. They started me off with 80 Percocets (325/10 - the good stuff). When I went back in for a post-op follow-up, they asked me how many more I wanted. I still had some left so I said none. When they ran out, I admit I was sad that they were gone. They're addictive - I get it. But at no time did I think someone else should be responsible for me.

    That's the way it should be. You could say the doctors were "pushing" them on me - they offered me as much as I wanted. I could have also just taken some to sell them. But I had no interest in either. You see, only I am responsible for the choices I make.

    If it weren't for these stupid prescription laws in the first place, there wouldn't be any fraud necessary. People just get what they think they need to manage their pain. They also need to manage themselves so they don't become addicted.

    So once again... No need for government here. Please move on.
    That goes both ways--FDA put an Amish man in jail for six years selling a salve. I am all for government out of the medical business but until that day I am glad to see the double standard is being lifted a bit.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    That goes both ways--FDA put an Amish man in jail for six years selling a salve. I am all for government out of the medical business but until that day I am glad to see the double standard is being lifted a bit.
    Sorry, Donna. I hear what you're saying, but that applies to EVERYTHING. "Until government gets out of the way, we need moar government!"

    "I'm all for free movement, but until government stops giving out goodies, we need to give them moar power to enforce our borders!"
    "I'm all for ending the drug war, but until we do that, police need moar tools!"
    "I'm all for bringing our troops home, but until then, we need to boost military spending!"
    "I'm all for reducing banking regulations, but until then, gimme protection!"

    "I'm all for personal responsibility, but until then, the government needs to take care of ALL of us equally!"

    <sorry, if that sounded harsh>

    It's just in this case, these doctors and pharmacists weren't committing fraud on the users, they were committing fraud on a stupid system of regulations.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  25. #24

    Default

    When all is said and done these "400 individuals" will likely result in one doctor and one pharmacist losing their license and no one going to jail. And the reason?? Because it was all BS to begin with...
    BEWARE THE CULT OF "GOVERNMENT"

    Christian Anarchy - Our Only Hope For Liberty In Our Lifetime!
    Sonmi 451: Truth is singular. Its "versions" are mistruths.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ChristianAnarchist

    Use an internet archive site like
    THIS ONE
    to archive the article and create the link to the article content instead.

  26. #25

    Default

    I have chronic headaches. Real blasted pain nearly everyday in my head and neck resulting from trauma.

    I can't get anything to take when it's at its worse. Was told to take more OTCs, in fact. Yeah that'll do it!

    Wife suffers from severe panic attacks. Real bad stuff, but she would take half a Xanax when they'd get bad and she would be fine after a bit. 90 pills lasted over a year so that tells you how responsible she was... they took them away. Said to try meditation. Now she thinks she's dying once a week when the panic sets in and just suffers quietly.

    $#@! your precious government and $#@! their interference in my health care.

  27. #26

    Default

    K
    Quote Originally Posted by Wooden Indian View Post
    I have chronic headaches. Real blasted pain nearly everyday in my head and neck resulting from trauma.

    I can't get anything to take when it's at its worse. Was told to take more OTCs, in fact. Yeah that'll do it!

    Wife suffers from severe panic attacks. Real bad stuff, but she would take half a Xanax when they'd get bad and she would be fine after a bit. 90 pills lasted over a year so that tells you how responsible she was... they took them away. Said to try meditation. Now she thinks she's dying once a week when the panic sets in and just suffers quietly.

    $#@! your precious government and $#@! their interference in my health care.
    Do you eat chocolate, A relative had headaches until that food was removed.

    For anxiety, try Calm, a magnesium supplement.

  28. #27

    Default

    Liberty is always the answer.

    Respectively, a "take down" by the same gang that promotes this crap is a joke.

    Quit subsidizing bad ideas with aggression to begin with -problem solved.

    I'm sure the Republican held-everything will get this sorted out...
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people." Ron Paul

    Please watch, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    We don't know of ANY doctor that's not. You cannot practice long in this lawsuit crazy society if you are not triple careful. I think there's a lot of nonsense going around about "bad doctors" and I do not see it. If I do, I'll be the first to sound the alarm. The worst I've seen is a couple of doctors who are not as qualified as they should be but I've never seen any case of doctors deliberately pumping pills. This is not to say it NEVER happens (that would be foolish) but I am saying that in my opinion this is way overblown (perhaps because the goonerment goonsquad has some hand in it?)
    You are either grossly uninformed, or deliberately hiding the fact that this has become an epidemic. And this is pretty common knowledge.

    The opioid overdose epidemic in the U.S. killed more than 33,000 people in 2015, which is more than any other year on record, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

    While the opioids referenced include both heroin and prescription opioids, nearly half of overdose deaths involve the prescription drugs. [1]

    Prescription opioids such as oxycodone (OxyContin), hydrocodone (Vicodin), morphine and methadone are widely prescribed for pain relief. Initially, they were intended to treat severe pain following surgery or injury or due to illnesses such as cancer.

    However, they’re now increasingly prescribed for many types of pain, including chronic back pain or pain from osteoarthritis. Opioid prescriptions nearly quadrupled in the U.S. between 1999 and 2013, despite reported pain levels remaining stagnant.

    By 2014 nearly 2 million Americans were dependent on or had abused the drugs, [2] and the situation is only getting worse. There are even reports that one opioid maker — Purdue Pharma — knowingly allowed its drugs to be funneled into the black market.

    Drug maker Sued for Funneling Pills Into the Black Market

    Purdue Pharma is being sued by the city of Everett, Washington, which has been hard-hit by deaths from opioid painkiller and heroin abuse.

    The suit alleges that Purdue Pharma, which manufactures OxyContin, supplied the drug to “obviously suspicious pharmacies and physicians and enabl[ed] the illegal diversion of OxyContin into the black market” in the city. [3]

    Mayor Ray Stephanson told CBS News that the city has been significantly damaged and its resources, including first responders and even crews cleaning up syringes in public parks, significantly strained as a result of the drugs flowing into their community.

    The case is built around a 2016 investigation by the Los Angeles Times, which revealed OxyContin was being trafficked illegally from California to Washington, and suggested Purdue Pharma knew about it but did nothing to stop it. [4] The drug maker is no stranger to litigation. CBS News reported: [5]

    “In 2007, Purdue Pharma and its executives paid more than $630 million in legal penalties to the federal government for willfully misrepresenting the drug’s addiction risks.
    The same year, it also settled with Washington and other states that claimed the company aggressively marketed OxyContin to doctors while downplaying the addiction risk. As part of that settlement, it agreed to continue internal controls to identify potential diversion or abuse.”
    Source.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianAnarchist View Post
    Besides, I thought this was a LIBERTY forum. Don't people here want liberty?? Doesn't that mean you OWN yourself?? Doesn't that mean you should be able to put anything in your body you want.
    Yes, but this LIBERTY does not exist in the U.S. If it did, most pharmaceutical companies would go out of business.

    Just legalize all the illegal drugs today, almost all of which are 1. Natural, 2. More effective than pharmaceutical copy-cats, but 3. NOT patentable.

    In which states are Opioid addictions DECREASING? Those states where marijuana has become legal.

    Dr. Oz Looks at Medical Marijuana as a Potential Cure for Opioid Addiction
    Uncensored Health Freedom News:
    http://healthimpactnews.com/

    Yes, I believe the science of vaccines is settled - Zippyjuan Team

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    You are either grossly uninformed, or deliberately hiding the fact that this has become an epidemic. And this is pretty common knowledge.



    Source.



    Yes, but this LIBERTY does not exist in the U.S. If it did, most pharmaceutical companies would go out of business.

    Just legalize all the illegal drugs today, almost all of which are 1. Natural, 2. More effective than pharmaceutical copy-cats, but 3. NOT patentable.

    In which states are Opioid addictions DECREASING? Those states where marijuana has become legal.

    Dr. Oz Looks at Medical Marijuana as a Potential Cure for Opioid Addiction
    Exactly.
    "Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." ~ Rod Serling
    "Cops today are nothing but an armed tax collector" ~ Frank Serpico
    "To be normal, to drink Coca-Cola and eat Kentucky Fried Chicken is to be in a conspiracy against yourself."
    "People that don't want to make waves sit in stagnant waters."

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by agitator View Post
    K

    Do you eat chocolate, A relative had headaches until that food was removed.

    For anxiety, try Calm, a magnesium supplement.
    not much for chocolates in our house. Had a neck injury a while back and stress and or too much lifting or pulling gets it going... which is daily. LOL

    Latest calming natural remedy for panic attacks we've tried is Valarian extract with St John's Wart. Let's just say it's no Xanax. Will try the magnesium.
    No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms.
    Thomas Jefferson

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