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Thread: How would you fix South Africa?

  1. #1

    Default How would you fix South Africa?

    South Africa's apartheid was bad but the current system is much worse. I think the incredible downfall of South Africa is a perfect lab experiment of democracy on steroids. Forget about the race angle, it's the unproductive voting to steal from the productive that's the problem. They turned their country into a socialist basket case in 25 years. I think the solution is to change the pool of voters. You have no "right" to vote to steal from someone else. If you are a parasite to the system you should not be allowed to vote. I'm not sure the best way to implement this, maybe only net taxpayers? Maybe a poll tax? Maybe only those who receive NO government benefits? But I'm sure the current system of 1 man 1 vote is seriously flawed.



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  3. #2

    Default Simple.

    Just get a bunch of American rock stars together and have them all sing a song.

    ...

  4. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    South Africa's apartheid was bad but the current system is much worse. I think the incredible downfall of South Africa is a perfect lab experiment of democracy on steroids. Forget about the race angle, it's the unproductive voting to steal from the productive that's the problem. They turned their country into a socialist basket case in 25 years. I think the solution is to change the pool of voters. You have no "right" to vote to steal from someone else. If you are a parasite to the system you should not be allowed to vote. I'm not sure the best way to implement this, maybe only net taxpayers? Maybe a poll tax? Maybe only those who receive NO government benefits? But I'm sure the current system of 1 man 1 vote is seriously flawed.
    Get the West outta there.
    There is no spoon.

  5. #4

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    They should create an African Union to help facilitate the drug/weapons/gold/trafficking trade between the other African countries
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    They should create an African Union to help facilitate the drug/weapons/gold/trafficking trade between the other African countries
    I could run all of that on Tue.'s & Thurs.'s as a private contractor . What percentage should I ask for ? In the old days I would start at 20 percent and go up from there .
    Yes , Danke was my sidekick .

  7. #6

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    Oh I could fix it.

    Nobody would want to hear my solution however.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Get the West outta there.
    Where in Africa has that worked?

  9. #8

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    Most of the problems in the world are cause by people thinking they can "fix" previous problems.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    South Africa's apartheid was bad but the current system is much worse. I think the incredible downfall of South Africa is a perfect lab experiment of democracy on steroids. Forget about the race angle, it's the unproductive voting to steal from the productive that's the problem. They turned their country into a socialist basket case in 25 years. I think the solution is to change the pool of voters. You have no "right" to vote to steal from someone else. If you are a parasite to the system you should not be allowed to vote. I'm not sure the best way to implement this, maybe only net taxpayers? Maybe a poll tax? Maybe only those who receive NO government benefits? But I'm sure the current system of 1 man 1 vote is seriously flawed.
    How would I fix South Africa? Get rid of the $#@!s.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  11. #10

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    Really the point of my post was "how do you keep democracies from degenerating into socialism". The reason I picked South Africa is because the problem of democracy is amplified. You have a huge majority voting to steal from a tiny minority. The same things that are happening there are happening in the US, just at a slower pace. So the "fix" should work in both places.

  12. #11

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    Secession. The country is too big. Just like us.
    The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Really the point of my post was "how do you keep democracies from degenerating into socialism". The reason I picked South Africa is because the problem of democracy is amplified. You have a huge majority voting to steal from a tiny minority. The same things that are happening there are happening in the US, just at a slower pace. So the "fix" should work in both places.
    You can't fix democracy, democracy is the problem. The only way to avoid the problems of democracy is to not have a democracy in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by fedupinmo View Post
    You can't fix democracy, democracy is the problem. The only way to avoid the problems of democracy is to not have a democracy in the first place.
    Right, but the US was not supposed to be a democracy but it eventually devolved into one. Even if you have safeguards like not directly senators, if you let everyone vote, you'll always get corrupt politicians promising free stuff that will undo even the best republic. That's the point of using South Africa as an example. It was supposedly set up as a republic but look at how quickly it devolved into a dangerous democracy. I'm convinced restricting the voting pool is the key. That's the root cause of the problem.

  15. #14

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    The liberty activists in SA should try to move away. The former Free State Project President was originally from South Africa. Vote with your feet.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  16. #15

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    How would you fix South Africa?
    I wouldn't.

  17. #16

    Default

    Responses In Bold

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    South Africa's apartheid was bad but the current system is much worse.

    Spoken like someone who has no clue what they're talking about

    I think the incredible downfall of South Africa is a perfect lab experiment of democracy on steroids. Forget about the race angle,

    More proof you don't understand South Africa. It isn't that easy to "just forget" about living in an ultra-racist state where you where denied every basic right, condemned to live in extreme poverty in what amounts to giant concentration camps, and denied the ability to provide for yourself and family because of the color of your skin. It isn't like apartheid ended 400 or 500 years ago. This was just yesterday for most of the people of South Africa. This isn't "reparations" for slavery which ended over a century and a half ago. It is the unfocused rage of a people who have been the subject of a vast and brutal police state controlled by a small oligarchic minority who has taken everything -land, power, wealth- not through market exchanged but government fiat and force.

    For example, do you understand why white people own most of the land in South Africa? It isn't because they're more productive, or work harder. Indeed, most of the difficult jobs are performed by black South African. The reason is because the Natives' Land Act of 1913, awarded the ownership of 87 percent of land to South Africans of European descent, i.e. whites. They then used that control to dominate everything from housing to infrastructure and food supply.


    it's the unproductive voting to steal from the productive that's the problem. They turned their country into a socialist basket case in 25 years.

    South Africa has always been a basket case. Going from a fascist state to a socialist state is no big change at all.

    I think the solution is to change the pool of voters. You have no "right" to vote to steal from someone else. If you are a parasite to the system you should not be allowed to vote. I'm not sure the best way to implement this, maybe only net taxpayers? Maybe a poll tax? Maybe only those who receive NO government benefits?

    So, anarchy is you solution. Because I hate to break this to you but there is no modern nation wherein the people do not profit form government benefits. I bet we can even find some way you benefit from government theft (aka "taxes.")

    But I'm sure the current system of 1 man 1 vote is seriously flawed.
    Sure it is. The State in all its forms is a deadly, poisonous flaw. Republics, democracies, they're all the same.


    How about people form other countries stop trying to dictate to others how they should think, act, and live? Seems like that is the root of all these problems in the first freaking place.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Get the West outta there.
    Ah good, you've come to the dark side,
    At last you call for genocide:
    Ethnically cleanse the nasty Boer
    Black Paradise is then in store.
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    no big change at all.

    they're all the same.

    the root of all problems [is the failure to comply with some simplistic and absolute moral bromide I've declared]
    Stop and see, libertarian!
    Ideology: the mind poison.

    Reality's no longer there.
    Stop, and gawk, and heed: Beware!
    The rebel of the 21st Century will be old-fashioned.

    No enemies to the right

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    South Africa's apartheid was bad but the current system is much worse. I think the incredible downfall of South Africa is a perfect lab experiment of democracy on steroids. Forget about the race angle, it's the unproductive voting to steal from the productive that's the problem. They turned their country into a socialist basket case in 25 years. I think the solution is to change the pool of voters. You have no "right" to vote to steal from someone else. If you are a parasite to the system you should not be allowed to vote. I'm not sure the best way to implement this, maybe only net taxpayers? Maybe a poll tax? Maybe only those who receive NO government benefits? But I'm sure the current system of 1 man 1 vote is seriously flawed.
    Of course South Africa was better under Apartheid. Nelson Mandela, besides being a convicted terrorist, was a Castro ally and a Marxist. The country is a disaster because of his election.

    The average lifespan during Apartheid was 64 years old. The current life span is 56 years old. South Africa is not just the rape capital of the world, it has 4 times as many rapes per capita as the 4th place country. http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...josh-gelernter The per capita GDP is $5600. That is less than Cuba.

    A way that would work would be to have someone like Pinochet takeover, or if possible someone like Lee Kuan Yew. Their current leader is pursuing the same policies as Allende did in Chile. The guy is confiscating land from white farmers (who are being exterminated) without compensation. The guy should ousted. The people of South Africa are too irresponsible for democracy. The results of Lee Kuan Yew and Pinochet speak for themselves. If you had a capitalist strongman takeover South Africa, people would be much wealthier, live longer, and actually have a future worth living.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 07-11-2017 at 03:45 PM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Ah good, you've come to the dark side,
    At last you call for genocide:
    Ethnically cleanse the nasty Boer
    Black Paradise is then in store.
    You DO know the West has been meddling in Africa to grab their resources for decades- amirite?
    There is no spoon.

  22. #21

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    Import the beautiful white SA women into the rest of the West and take in the white men willing to work (which is essentially all of them).

    Let the communist killers destroy themselves, and then recolonize the place once the zombie apocalypse is over.

    Seriously, the blacks have legally and explicitly stated their goal is to steal all land from the whites and kill them. The one place on Earth facing a legit genocide threat.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  23. #22

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    **At Ender**

    Sarcasm?

    When white colonists found South Africa, it was empty. It was one of the few places on Earth that essentially had no humans.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I wouldn't.
    Yeah, it's like the farthest thing from my agenda.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    Import the beautiful white SA women into the rest of the West and take in the white men willing to work (which is essentially all of them).

    Let the communist killers destroy themselves, and then recolonize the place once the zombie apocalypse is over.

    Seriously, the blacks have legally and explicitly stated their goal is to steal all land from the whites and kill them. The one place on Earth facing a legit genocide threat.
    Sounds like a good plan.
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

    “If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.”

    Lewis Carroll

    “I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.”

    Linus Van Pelt, from the Peanuts comic strip by Charles M. Schulz

    "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith"

    Alexis de Torqueville

  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Responses In Bold



    Sure it is. The State in all its forms is a deadly, poisonous flaw. Republics, democracies, they're all the same.


    How about people form other countries stop trying to dictate to others how they should think, act, and live? Seems like that is the root of all these problems in the first freaking place.
    **WRONG**

    Blacks in the apartheid state had more wealth then today - cuz they had more food and infrastructure that actually fkin worked. That's what happens when you go from a segregated state to one where the majority who don't know what the hell they are doing takes the land from the productive and explicitly says they must die for the color of their skin.

    Segregation (while not a good thing) is NOT the same as GENOCIDE.

    **EDIT** my response was to your whole statement not just what showed up in the quote. Modern black/communist controlled SA is NOT the same as the apartheid state (as incredibly flawed as it was).
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Sounds like a good plan.
    Yep. The point was, there is no fixing that $#@! show. Save the GENOCIDE TARGETS and let those communist animals destroy themselves.

    $#@! that mess. Save the ones whose families built that country and welcome them.

    Oh wait, they are white. It's racist to want to save them.
    "Like an army falling, one by one by one" - Linkin Park

  28. #27

    Default

    I have a friend whose sister, as a peace corp member, married a South African. He's from Namibia. Not sure which city but I think it was Otjiwarango. Abel is his name and they have their own business and a son together. I asked him about "there" and his conversation pretty much went like this... "I'm here now. I am a citizen. I have a wife, a child, a business and a home. There is nothing there I can change except for my mother's and sisters well being. In some ways we are lucky this way. It really does not take much from my family here to help my family there." Something to think about.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    **At Ender**

    Sarcasm?

    When white colonists found South Africa, it was empty. It was one of the few places on Earth that essentially had no humans.
    False history.

    In the 1980s revisionist and liberal historians and archaeologists began to argue against the theory of an empty land. Using new archaeological evidence they were able to show the presence of Bantu like people in the eastern half of South Africa since around 300 AD. They were also able to show that even though there had indeed been a large Bantu migration into the region at a later date, that date was somewhere around the 12th century AD, rather than in the seventeenth century as had been previously argued. Historians began to unpack the ways in which the myth of the vacant land had come into being and were able to show how its emergence coincided with the increasing clashes for land between the Bantu and the British and Afrikaners.

    Historians and activists alike also pointed to a glaring omission on the theory of the empty land – the absolute silence on the existence of the KhoiSan (KhoiKhoi and San/Bushman) populations of Southern Africa who roamed much of the south western region of the country. KhoiSan peoples had been living in the region for millennia when the Dutch first arrived. Their plight, and their undeniable claims to the land, gets no reference in the 'empty land theory'.

    Myths form an integral part of any peoples understanding of self and their place in the world, and are central to justifying the current distribution of power and resources. The myth of the empty land into which both Bantu and European peoples migrated at the same time, but from opposite directions, arose after the most violent clashes had occurred between the Bantus and the Europeans. Afrikaner nationalists, disillusioned with the British government at the Cape, had migrated out of the Colony and into the east of the country during the Great Trek. The British had encountered vast numbers of Xhosa at the Fish River and had been continuously engaging in battles and treaties with them. By the 1860s, when Woulden propagated his theory, this turbulent period had resulted in large swathes of South African land falling under the dominion of either the Afrikaner Republics or British colonial territory. Both these groups were in a position where a foundation myth which gave them the legitimate right of the land they had claimed was central to their own sense of nationhood.

    The Myth of the empty land had become a central tenet of both British and Afrikaner identity in nineteenth century South Africa and had been used as a justification for the capture and settlement of Bantu land. The Apartheid Government had transformed the myth to serve its own ends. They used it to support the Homelands Act and to confine the Bantu people to particularly localities, arguing that the rest of the country had been ‘empty’ and therefore could not form part of their Homelands. Since the 1980s however, evidence has shown that the myth of the empty land simply cannot be sustained. Rather than being historical fact, it is a convenient fiction that has served as a political tool.
    http://www.sahistory.org.za/article/empty-land-myth
    There is no spoon.

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Because revisionist and liberal historians are so trustworthy?
    “Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

    Robert A. Heinlein

    "Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler"

    Groucho Marx

    “If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.”

    Lewis Carroll

    “I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.”

    Linus Van Pelt, from the Peanuts comic strip by Charles M. Schulz

    "You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith"

    Alexis de Torqueville

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because revisionist and liberal historians are so trustworthy?
    So where do your personal facts lead you to believe?
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

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