Was Jesus a Vegetarian?

[Natural Citizen]

If you know God create us and all the things on this earth and read Leviticus 11, you will see that God was warning us about the things these flesh bodies shouldn't eat to stay healthy.

It is not a sin against your soul, it's a sin against your flesh.

Yes, I know that some animals are dirtier than others. But you skated around my question. I asked if perhaps those dietary laws were for the purpose of weaning mankind from dead carcasses until he was out of the wilderness and established as a nation?

Or do you think that those words in Leviticus 11 were intended to serve as an example for all time?

[Lamp]

Or perhaps its part of the OT so no one has to take it as seriously as the guidelines in the NT?

[Natural Citizen]

If you know God create us and all the things on this earth and read Leviticus 11, you will see that God was warning us about the things these flesh bodies shouldn't eat to stay healthy.

It is not a sin against your soul, it's a sin against your flesh.

Yes, I know that some animals are dirtier than others. But you skated around my question. I asked if perhaps those dietary laws were for the purpose of weaning mankind from dead carcasses until he was out of the wilderness and established as a nation?

Or do you think that those words were intended to serve as an example for all time?

[donnay]

Yes, I know that some animals are dirtier than others. But you skated around my question. I asked if perhaps those dietary laws were for the purpose of weaning mankind from dead carcasses until he was out of the wilderness and established as a nation?

Or do you think that those words in Leviticus 11 were intended to serve as an example for all time?

I believe it serves as an example for all time. God put every living thing on this earth for a purpose. Scavengers have a purpose--to help clean the earth. Farmers used pigs to clean their farms not to eat them initially.

[lilymc]

Perhaps those dietary laws were for the purpose of weaning mankind from dead carcasses until he was out of the wilderness and established as a nation? Could be.

Good question and I think you're touching on some interesting things that happened at that time. The Israelites were coming out of Egypt, where they had eaten meat. Remember when they were traveling from Egypt to the promised land and God gave them manna to eat? Instead of being happy with the manna, they complained and said "we want meat, we want meat!" God got angry with them and basically said "You want meat? OK I'll give you meat, not just for a few days, but for a whole month, until it comes out at your nostrils..."

Then God sent a plague:

"But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was aroused against the people, and the Lord struck the people with a very great plague. " Numbers 11:33

Getting back to what you said... I need to look into this more, but it does appear that the Israelites were used to pagan practices, so it is possible that one of the reasons God set up dietary laws was to wean them off of their penchant for animal flesh.

There are a number of examples in the Bible of God doing things due to the hardness of man's heart… Such as allowing divorce, etc.

ETA: If it was true that God created animals to be our food, and had no problem at all with people eating animals… Then it would make sense for God to give the Israelites animals as food in the desert… But instead he gave them manna. Bread from heaven. Why not animal flesh?

[donnay]

Or perhaps its part of the OT so no one has to take it as seriously as the guidelines in the NT?

Why wouldn't you take the OT serious? Ezekiel has more about the millennium (The LORD'S Day) than any book in the Bible.

So should we not follow the Ten Commandments? It's in the OT.

[Lamp]

Why wouldn't you take the OT serious? Ezekiel has more about the millennium (The LORD'S Day) than any book in the Bible.

So should we not follow the Ten Commandments? It's in the OT.

No I'm just going by what HB told me.

[donnay]

Good question and I think you're touching on some interesting things that happened at that time. The Israelites were coming out of Egypt, where they had eaten meat. Remember when they were traveling from Egypt to the promised land and God gave them manna to eat? Instead of being happy with the manna, they complained and said "we want meat, we want meat!" God got angry with them and basically said "You want meat? OK I'll give you meat, not just for a few days, but for a whole month, until it comes out at your nostrils..."

God gave them quail as well.

Exodus 16:13
And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.

cross reference:
Psalm 105:40
They asked, and He brought quail, And satisfied them with the bread of heaven.

[donnay]

No I'm just going by what HB told me.

Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[Lamp]

Matthew 5:17-20 (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Oh okay then.

[Natural Citizen]

I believe it serves as an example for all time.

Oh, okay. So I think I see where the disagreement is in scope. Thanks.

God put every living thing on this earth for a purpose. Scavengers have a purpose--to help clean the earth. Farmers used pigs to clean their farms not to eat them initially.

Yeah, I know. I grew up on one. Remember? Hehehe

Anyway, I didn't mean to insinuate that you purposely skated my qustion, donnay. That's just the way I talk.

[lilymc]

God gave them quail as well.

Exodus 16:13
And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host.

cross reference:
Psalm 105:40
They asked, and He brought quail, And satisfied them with the bread of heaven.

Yes, I know. But read the verses leading up to that. They were complaining, and He gave them what they wanted, along with the manna. But in the Numbers passage, they were clearly unhappy with the manna and wanted meat. My point was that God's choice of food for them was manna, not animal flesh.

[Natural Citizen]

Good question and I think you're touching on some interesting things that happened at that time. The Israelites were coming out of Egypt, where they had eaten meat. Remember when they were traveling from Egypt to the promised land and God gave them manna to eat? Instead of being happy with the manna, they complained and said "we want meat, we want meat!" God got angry with them and basically said "You want meat? OK I'll give you meat, not just for a few days, but for a whole month, until it comes out at your nostrils..."

Then God sent a plague:

"But while the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was aroused against the people, and the Lord struck the people with a very great plague. " Numbers 11:33

Getting back to what you said... I need to look into this more, but it does appear that the Israelites were used to pagan practices, so it is possible that one of the reasons God set up dietary laws was to wean them off of their penchant for animal flesh.

There are a number of examples in the Bible of God doing things due to the hardness of man's heart… Such as allowing divorce, etc.

ETA: If it was true that God created animals to be our food, and had no problem at all with people eating animals… Then it would make sense for God to give the Israelites animals as food in the desert… But instead he gave them manna. Bread from heaven. Why not animal flesh?

Leviticus 17:3-4 is one that I wonder about, too.

"Any Israelite who slaughters an ox, a sheep, or a goat, either inside or outside the camp, and does not bring it to the entrance of the Tent of the Presence to present it as an offering to the Lord shall be guilty of bloodshed, that man has shed blood and shall be cut off from the people."

In other words, any slaughtering exclusively for the sake of food was bloodshed. Right?

So, then, asking you as a Christian, would the the New Covenant sacrifice of Jesus demand us to cease to consume animal flesh? After all, if Jesus death is the reason why Christians view sacrifice as invalid then surely we must be consistent and also recognize that there is no other way proscribed for us to Lawfully consume flesh. Or naw?

[Natural Citizen]

Hey, do you know wahat manna means? It means "what is it?"

[tod evans]

Hey, do you know wahat manna mans? It means "what is it?"

This could very well be 'manna'

[Natural Citizen]

This could very well be 'manna'

Dang. That's a big ol burger right there.

[lilymc]

Leviticus 17:3-4 is one that I wonder about, too.

"Any Israelite who slaughters an ox, a sheep, or a goat, either inside or outside the camp, and does not bring it to the entrance of the Tent of the Presence to present it as an offering to the Lord shall be guilty of bloodshed, that man has shed blood and shall be cut off from the people."

In other words, any slaughtering exclusively for the sake of food was bloodshed. Right?

So, then, asking you as a Christian, would the the New Covenant sacrifice of Jesus demand us to cease to consume animal flesh? After all, if Jesus death is the reason why Christians view sacrifice as invalid then surely we must be consistent and also recognize that there is no other way proscribed for us to Lawfully consume flesh. Or naw?

More very good questions. I don't want to keep saying this, but I want to look into this more, so I will definitely get back to this.

[donnay]

Leviticus 17:3-4 is one that I wonder about, too.

"Any Israelite who slaughters an ox, a sheep, or a goat, either inside or outside the camp, and does not bring it to the entrance of the Tent of the Presence to present it as an offering to the Lord shall be guilty of bloodshed, that man has shed blood and shall be cut off from the people."

In other words, any slaughtering exclusively for the sake of food was bloodshed. Right?

So, then, asking you as a Christian, would the the New Covenant sacrifice of Jesus demand us to cease to consume animal flesh? After all, if Jesus death is the reason why Christians view sacrifice as invalid then surely we must be consistent and also recognize that there is no other way proscribed for us to Lawfully consume flesh. Or naw?

You need to study what are the statues, ordinances and law. The blood ordinances and statues were nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law remains the same. This is why Leviticus 11 is not a sin against your soul, but your flesh (Health).

[Natural Citizen]

You need to study what are the statues, ordinances and law. The blood ordinances and statues were nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law remains the same. This is why Leviticus 11 is not a sin against your soul, but your flesh (Health).

Okay. Where can I study those?

[Natural Citizen]

More very good questions. I don't want to keep saying this, but I want to look into this more, so I will definitely get back to this.

Don't worry, I have a million of em. That's the great thing about not having all of the answers. It leaves room for lots of questions. And a free pass not to have to actually debate the topic, I'd add. Tee hee hee hee hee.

[donnay]

Okay. Where can I study those?

Leviticus 26:46
“These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.”

Colossians 2:14
“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

[Natural Citizen]

Leviticus 26:46
“These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.”

Colossians 2:14
“Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

Okay. I guess I'll have to read the whole books for tenor. It's harder to make sense of it all with just proof texts. Thanks, donnay.

[heavenlyboy34]

No I'm just going by what HB told me.

I didn't mean that the OT is*completely*irrelevant. But to say that Christ fulfilled the law(John 19:30, etc, etc). In fact,we should still read and study the OT-including the Dutero canon:but in light of the Truth maintained by the Apostolic and Orthodox Church-not in the manner of schismatics, heretics, and other non-Orthodox.

[Natural Citizen]

I'm poking through this Noah Webster Bible I have. I think I like that one better than the KJ Authorized. I'm probably gonna keep it as my go-to.

[donnay]

I'm poking through this Noah Webster Bible I have. I think I like that one better than the KJ Authorized. I'm probably gonna keep it as my go-to.

I use a Smith's Bible Dictionary when I study. The Companion Bible is also great. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is great for the translations from, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

[heavenlyboy34]

You need to study what are the statues, ordinances and law. The blood ordinances and statues were nailed to the cross with Jesus. The law remains the same. This is why Leviticus 11 is not a sin against your soul, but your flesh (Health).

You're reading this in an excessively literal and Jewish way. (though there is certainly a time and place for fasts and feasts) Please see Mark 7:15-23.

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

[Natural Citizen]

I use a Smith's Bible Dictionary when I study. The Companion Bible is also great. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is great for the translations from, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

Well, that's why I like Noah Webster's Bible. He knew Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Plus he understood the connection between physical liberty and liberty of thought. Unlike some worldly Kings I know. Hehehe. And it's a bonus that he produced the very first Dictionary in America. So he knows his words, too. Not only that, But I have a copy of his other textbook, "A Grammatical Institute of the English Language."

I figure if there's any Bible I can trust to get words and tenor right, it's likely his. Sometimes those lying scribes are revealed. Hehehe.

I do have Strong's Exhaustive Concordance on one of my shelves, though. You're right, that's always great to have around.

[donnay]

You're reading this in an excessively literal and Jewish way. (though there is certainly a time and place for fasts and feasts) Please see Mark 7:15-23.

That parable has nothing to do with eating and has everything to do with defying traditions of men that make void the word of GOD. This was discussed earlier in this thread.

Read through Mark 7:1-14
Mark 7(KJV)

7 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

[heavenlyboy34]

I use a Smith's Bible Dictionary when I study. The Companion Bible is also great. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is great for the translations from, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

btw, side note: Iadvise using translations from the Septuagint instead of the HebrewBible as your go-to for regular reading.1) it's what the Apostles used 2) It's clearer in its how it pointsto Jesus as the Christ.

[heavenlyboy34]

That parable has nothing to do with eating and has everything to do with defying traditions of men that make void the word of GOD. This was discussed earlier in this thread.

Read through Mark 7:1-14
Mark 7(KJV)

7 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

It most certainly has something to do with eating. It's not *just* about eating, but eating is very much witin the scope of the passage. Even with this extra context you've provided,it doesn't change the excessively jewish interpretation of Leviticus you made prior. It's critical to read the OT in light of the NT. ~hugs~