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Thread: Coconut oil isn't healthy. It's never been healthy.

  1. #31
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by The Northbreather View Post
    If I remember correctly wasn't the medical community puzzled for a time because the Pacific Islanders who eat large quantities of coconut oil don't have high incidence of heart disease?
    yeah my dad is in the traditional medical community and is aware of the studies ive read too and its basically a different POV. Pacific Islanders who eat large quantities of coconut oil do not have any high incidence of heart disease... However when they come to America and eat coconut oil and also eat the typical SAD diet they do have high incidence of heart disease... The general contention is that the eating of the coconut is causing the problem whereas I disagree and believe the McDonalds they are eating is causing the problem.

    But trying to get some traditionally schooled doctor to see it from my POV is like trying to get an eqyptologist to look at the possibility that somebody else made the pyramids and the eqyptians just happened to come across them.



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  3. #32
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    You do understand that rheumatic heart disease is caused by rheumatic fever, and not fats -- saturated or unsaturated -- right? Oils and fats of any kind are simply not relevant to rheumatic heart disease in any way. The disease is caused by the damage from a viral infection.
    you must spread some reputation around before giving it to gunnyfreedom again



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  5. #33
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Whatever is bad for you today will be good for you tomorrow and visa versa. I remember reading that cholesterol does not cause heart disease.
    This much is certainly true.

  6. #34
    It really bothers me that people are not enough in touch with their bodies to know without some kind of expensive test that something is not good for them. I love coconut oil and butter and until my body tells me not to use it there is no written or spoken word that will make me stop.

    The reason I don't eat meat is because it makes me feel horrible. Do most people not sense it when something is not good for them? I can't imagine how that feels to not know ones own body.

  7. #35
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    It really bothers me that people are not enough in touch with their bodies to know without some kind of expensive test that something is not good for them. I love coconut oil and butter and until my body tells me not to use it there is no written or spoken word that will make me stop.

    The reason I don't eat meat is because it makes me feel horrible. Do most people not sense it when something is not good for them? I can't imagine how that feels to not know ones own body.
    I agree.. this should be the basic premise for things. if you feel terrible eating meat then dont eat it.. if you feel good eating grains then eat them etc etc.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I just wonder why Dannno didn't point that out instead of fabricating a theory about why his theory wasn't panning out?
    Who cares? The point is when they study natives who still eat their native diet, that is completely different from studying a native population that has a modern diet with imported grains.

    Average lifespan in year is also faulty when comparing natives that live a native lifestyle vs. a modern lifestyle. You want to compare the average lifespan of those who make it past, say, age 30.
    Last edited by dannno; 06-20-2017 at 02:14 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #37
    Coconut is just the latest trendy oil. Other oils have been popular because they were supposed to be better for you too. Corn, canola, grapeseed, peanut, olive. They all have some good properties.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Who cares? The point is when they study natives who still eat their native diet, that is completely different from studying a native population that has a modern diet with imported grains.

    Average lifespan in year is also faulty when comparing natives that live a native lifestyle vs. a modern lifestyle. You want to compare the average lifespan of those who make it past, say, age 30.
    So you're saying they should cherry pick their subjects? Find only people living longer while embracing a modern lifestyle only eating like a primitive. OK. I'd be interested in seeing that.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Coconut is just the latest trendy oil. Other oils have been popular because they were supposed to be better for you too. Corn, canola, grapeseed, peanut, olive. They all have some good properties.


    Coconut oil is out. These are the oils you should be using, experts say!

    ^^ USA Today. Old Snake oil is out! Here's some new Snake Oil!!!

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    So you're saying they should cherry pick their subjects? Find only people living longer while embracing a modern lifestyle only eating like a primitive. OK. I'd be interested in seeing that.
    Uh, that's not what I said at all.

    To summarize, the conversation began with someone saying that native people had lower incidents of heart attack and it was related to the coconut oil. I dunno how much coconut oil natives ate, but I do know that natives tend to have much healthier diets than people with modern lifestyles, although they face many additional obstacles that may kill them. Then the toolbuckets came in and posted something about natives who had higher incidents of heart attack. I asked whether those natives being studied that had higher incidents of heart attack were eating a lot of imported grain - because poor natives who become dependent on their colonists often end up subsisting on grains rather than eating the diet their ancestors ate, which took hours of difficult work hunting, fishing and gathering coconuts from tall trees.

    But back to the point, natives who live to age 30 tend to live as long or longer than people in modern times who also live to at least age 30. However if you take the average age of death of all natives, it is much lower because they have a much harder time keeping babies and young children alive. That is why when toolbags say that natives don't live as long, this says little or nothing about the health of their diet or how long their diet will keep them alive and much more about their environment as a whole. By taking the average age of death of those who live past 30 out of the natives, and comparing it to the average age of death of those who live past 30 in modern societies, we can get a better idea of how fast their diet kills them, as opposed to childhood illnesses and such.
    Last edited by dannno; 06-21-2017 at 01:24 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Coconut oil is out. These are the oils you should be using, experts say!

    ^^ USA Today. Old Snake oil is out! Here's some new Snake Oil!!!
    USA Today "experts" have nothing to do with ANYBODY here who is giving dietary advice to eat coconut oil. To try and deceive forum members into thinking that is completely ridiculous.

    Olive oil and avocado oil are good, we have always known that avocados and olives had relatively healthy fats for being plant based. But they are still not as good for you as coconut oil. That is never going to change.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    USA Today "experts" have nothing to do with ANYBODY here who is giving dietary advice to eat coconut oil. To try and deceive forum members into thinking that is completely ridiculous.

    Olive oil and avocado oil are good, we have always known that avocados and olives had relatively healthy fats for being plant based. But they are still not as good for you as coconut oil. That is never going to change.
    Evidence? (avocado and olive oils have high amounts of unsaturated fats).

    http://blog.anytimefitness.com/olive...-oil-one-best/

    What’s Good About It:

    If you like coconut, it adds a wonderful coconut flavor to dishes! From a health standpoint, the benefits of coconut oil are fraught with controversy. Load one article, and it’ll tell you to eat coconut oil by the spoonful. Load the next, and it’ll tell you to never eat coconut oil again. We need more research to prove who is correct! Proponents of coconut oil say that it can help reduce your risk of Alzheimer’s Disease, reduce your risk of heart disease, and help balance your hormones. Studies have proven that coconut oil can help boost HDL (“good”) cholesterol, but more research is needed to determine if that boost is beneficial long-term.

    What’s Not So Good About It:

    Many healthcare professionals point to the high saturated fat content (about 90%, compared to 63% for butter) as a reason to stay away from coconut oil in large amounts. Lovers of coconut oil say that it is a different kind of saturated fat that is actually beneficial for your body—and that the vast array of other benefits outweigh any negatives. Again, there haven’t been definitive studies to prove either way.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Evidence? (avocado and olive oils have high amounts of unsaturated fats).

    http://blog.anytimefitness.com/olive...-oil-one-best/
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/saturated-fat-healthy/
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #44
    Article is not a study comparing avocado, olive, and coconut oils. But thanks anyways. All have good properties. None will kill you (unless you consume excessive amounts) and none will make you live forever. Focus on a varied diet- not a few allegedly "super foods". Every type of food can be considered a "super food" in some way.

    If "consuming saturated fats" won't kill you, the inverse is not necessarily true- that "consuming saturated fats is the best thing for you".
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-21-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Article is not a study comparing avocado, olive, and coconut oils. But thanks anyways. All have good properties. None will kill you (unless you consume excessive amounts) and none will make you live forever. Focus on a varied diet- not a few allegedly "super foods". Every type of food can be considered a "super food" in some way.

    If "consuming saturated fats" won't kill you, the inverse is not necessarily true- that "consuming saturated fats is the best thing for you".
    I was responding to your comment regarding the claim that unsaturated fats are considered healthier, I provided data showing that saturated fats are healthy.

    Here's a comparison, there are scientific studies that backup the claims regarding these oils:

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healthy-oils/

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I was responding to your comment regarding the claim that unsaturated fats are considered healthier, I provided data showing that saturated fats are healthy.

    Here's a comparison, there are scientific studies that backup the claims regarding these oils:

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healthy-oils/

    "No worse than" is not necessarily "better". (Article doesn't present any evidence it is "better"- only that that the author "prefers" it).

    Is olive oil bad?

    Olive oil got a pretty good breakdown last year, so unless I’m leaving out some recent momentous news breaking out of the highly secretive olive oil world, there’s not much more to say. It’s a delicious salad oil, a decent sautéing oil, and it can even be used as moisturizer and shaving lotion. Olive oil is one area where CW gets it right. Enjoy this one, and keep a bottle of extra virgin, cold pressed olive oil on hand for salad dressings. It also does a decent job standing up to heat, but will lose it’s delicate flavors if heated too high. This is a good enough reason for me to use a different fat/oil when cooking at high temps. (Why waste precious (and often expensive!) olive oil when lard, for instance, will do the trick?)
    or avocado oil?
    Avocado

    Who doesn’t love a plump avocado with the right amount of give? If you can’t get your hands on a good one, the next best thing might be a bottle of avocado oil. Its fatty acid profile is similar to that of olive oil, but it has an even higher smoke point, making it a decent choice for cooking. Personally, I still wouldn’t use it for high heat cooking. The light, subtle taste lends itself far better to salad dressing, if you ask me. Buy in dark bottles to minimize oxidation.
    Coconut oil healthier?

    Coconut

    MDA’s darling, coconut oil is truly a star. I went over why yesterday, and in past posts, but the gist of it is this: it’s a tasty, shelf-stable (no hydrogenation required) tropical oil with a ton of saturated fatty acids. In fact, it’s almost purely saturated, which is why most doctors and nutritionists will probably advise against its consumption. Not us, though. We love SFA. The refined coconut oil stands up to heat a bit better, and it doesn’t have a distinctive taste, but I can’t recommend it. Unrefined virgin oil is a murky, cloudy mess – but a delicious, creamy mess. Eat the unrefined by the spoonful.
    Main difference seems to be how they handle high temperatures- not which is "healthier".
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-21-2017 at 02:06 PM.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "No worse than" is not necessarily "better". (Article doesn't present any evidence it is "better"- only that that the author "prefers" it).

    Is olive oil bad?



    or avocado oil?


    Coconut oil healthier?



    Main difference seems to be how they handle high temperatures- not which is "healthier".
    Coconut

    MDA’s darling, coconut oil is truly a star. I went over why yesterday, and in past posts, but the gist of it is this: it’s a tasty, shelf-stable (no hydrogenation required) tropical oil with a ton of saturated fatty acids. In fact, it’s almost purely saturated, which is why most doctors and nutritionists will probably advise against its consumption. Not us, though. We love SFA. The refined coconut oil stands up to heat a bit better, and it doesn’t have a distinctive taste, but I can’t recommend it. Unrefined virgin oil is a murky, cloudy mess – but a delicious, creamy mess. Eat the unrefined by the spoonful.
    6.2% MUFA
    1.6% PUFA
    92.1% SFA


    Olive (and variations)

    Olive oil got a pretty good breakdown last year, so unless I’m leaving out some recent momentous news breaking out of the highly secretive olive oil world, there’s not much more to say. It’s a delicious salad oil, a decent sautéing oil, and it can even be used as moisturizer and shaving lotion. Olive oil is one area where CW gets it right. Enjoy this one, and keep a bottle of extra virgin, cold pressed olive oil on hand for salad dressings. It also does a decent job standing up to heat, but will lose it’s delicate flavors if heated too high. This is a good enough reason for me to use a different fat/oil when cooking at high temps. (Why waste precious (and often expensive!) olive oil when lard, for instance, will do the trick?)
    73% MUFA
    3.5-21% Omega-6 PUFA
    1% Omega-3 PUFA (not even worth mentioning, really)
    14% SFA

    Avocado

    Who doesn’t love a plump avocado with the right amount of give? If you can’t get your hands on a good one, the next best thing might be a bottle of avocado oil. Its fatty acid profile is similar to that of olive oil, but it has an even higher smoke point, making it a decent choice for cooking. Personally, I still wouldn’t use it for high heat cooking. The light, subtle taste lends itself far better to salad dressing, if you ask me. Buy in dark bottles to minimize oxidation.
    70% MUFA
    12% Omega-6 PUFA
    1% Omega-3 PUFA
    12% SFA
    ..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Coconut is just the latest trendy oil. Other oils have been popular because they were supposed to be better for you too. Corn, canola, grapeseed, peanut, olive. They all have some good properties.
    We have used coconut oil for years at our house because we like it for various uses. It is the very best for pancakes. Yum.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  23. #49
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  24. #50
    Tom DeLauer is an interesting guy. He sticks to legit science instead of "bro science" and BS. @dannno and @donnay would like this, I think.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 06-26-2017 at 08:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  25. #51
    Coconut Oil For Eczema

    You should use coconut oil for the treatment of eczema because it moisturizes the skin, helps to retain moisture, prevents infections from developing, speeds the healing process and boosts the immune response. In fact, this oil is considered to be one of the best natural options for reducing the severity of eczema, or eliminating it entirely.

    Eczema occurs when the skin fails to create enough oil, which allows moisture to escape. Skin cells become dehydrated, and the space between them is the perfect breeding ground for various irritants, pollutants and pathogens, which quickly leads to flaky skin, irritation, itchiness, cracked skin, and unsightly inflammation. Coconut oil has a number of antibacterial, anti-fungal and antiviral effects that can protect the exposed areas of skin caused by the dehydration process. Furthermore, coconut oil is a natural moisturizer, so it can help the skin lock in the moisture it needs for proper function.

    The active ingredients in coconut oil, such as vitamin E and K, as well as volatile organic acids, help to stimulate the regrowth of new cells and prevent the negative effects of free radicals and oxidative stress. As a whole, the effect of coconut oil on the skin is smoother, healthier and less irritated skin that is far less susceptible to future inflammation from eczema.



    How To Use Coconut Oil For Eczema
    You can use coconut oil in the form of a pure moisturizer, as a cleansing element in a warm bath, combined with other carrier oils, or prepared into a salve or cream. Coconut Oil Face masks are also quite popular for people wanting to clear up patches of eczema on their most visible areas.

    Two of the most popular options are adding an entire cup of coconut oil to the bathtub and then allowing your entire body to soak up the benefits, or heating up a few tablespoons of the oil before mixing it with oatmeal and dumping it in the bath. These can provide full-body skin treatment, leaving you relaxed and rejuvenated!

    As a pure moisturizer, this oil can be applied in a thin layer on any part of the body, but the most common areas for eczema are on the arms, legs, back and upper chest. Apply the oil three times each day, or apply before bed and wash thoroughly in the morning. Applying the oil directly after a bath is also quite effective, as your pores will be open and clean, making them even more receptive to the healing nutrients of the oil.

    Coconut oil bandages, where a piece of gauze is wrapped around an area of the skin covered in coconut oil, are an excellent way to ensure that the oil remains in contact with the skin and does its job, even while you are moving throughout your day, or shifting while you sleep.

    How To Use Coconut Oil To Cure Eczema In Babies

    Babies often suffer from eczema, but by applying coconut oil after a bath, particularly in the joints, arms and legs, and carefully avoiding the eyes, the eczema symptoms can be mitigated or eliminated entirely. This is best done after organic oatmeal baths or other skin-soothing treatments. Leaving the small amount of oil on overnight can also be an effective choice.

    What Type Of Coconut Oil Can Be Used For Eczema?

    When treating eczema, always choose unrefined, virgin organic coconut oil. This will be the purest form available, before many of the other nutrients and volatile components are lost through processing. If you want to benefit from the full strength of the volatile and medium-chain fatty acids found in this remedy, spend a bit more money on this 100% pure form of the oil.

    Time It Takes To Cure Eczema With Coconut Oil

    With daily application, most people see an improvement in eczema symptoms within a few days to a week, particularly if flare-ups are not common. For people who suffer from chronic eczema, it may take slightly longer to get the symptoms under control, perhaps a month or more. Consistency is key if you want to completely rid yourself of eczema.

    However, many people use coconut oil on their skin every day as a protective shield against skin conditions like eczema, psoriasis and acne, and it has proven to be an excellent preventative measure.

    References
    http://journals.lww.com/dermatitis/A...ects_of.3.aspx
    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...91581811400636
    http://web.a.ebscohost.com/abstract?...6AN%3d62605153
    http://journals.rcni.com/doi/abs/10....journalCode=ns
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...38081X1730055X
    https://www.organicfacts.net/health-...gnalJune262017
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Coconut is just the latest trendy oil.
    Wrong. Coconut oil is a TRADITIONAL oil that has been in the food chain for THOUSANDS of years. And the research on the health benefits of medium chain fatty acids, found mostly in coconut oil, has been around since the 1960s. But don't let the truth get in your way.

    The "trendy" oils are canola, corn, and soy. They have only been in the food chain post WWII when we developed the technology to expeller-press oils from crops we previously never did. Canola is the new kid on the block, as it is genetically modifed rapeseed oil. But "rapeseed" was not an acceptable name to use for an edible oil, and since it was developed in Canada, they renamed it to "Canola".
    Last edited by Created4; 06-26-2017 at 08:24 PM.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

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