Why Do People Believe This Lie?

[Sola_Fide]

1st Samuel 3:13-14
“For I have told him that I am about to judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knew, because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them.

"Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.”

Universal atonement refuted entirely.

Why do people believe this lie?

[Dr.3D]

Maybe people tend to ignore things they can't do anything about.

Remember, it's all cut in stone and nothing can be changed.

It's predestined.

[Influenza]

The reason why people believe in it is because it says it again and again in the bible

John 3:16 — For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Timothy 1:15—Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.
Titus 2:11 —"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.

Then again, it also says the opposite, and that's just what happens when you have a book with thousands of internal contradictions

[Sola_Fide]

The reason why people believe in it is because it says it again and again in the bible

Then again, it also says the opposite, and that's just what happens when you have a book with thousands of internal contradictions

Where in any of those verses does it suggest that the atonement was made for every man?

Consider the possibility that the Scriptures are consistent, and you are just reading incorrectly. Maybe reading it with your preconceived notions rather than letting it speak.

[Sola_Fide]

Maybe people tend to ignore things they can't do anything about.

Remember, it's all cut in stone and nothing can be changed.

It's predestined.

But, speaking about the idea in the original post, how can it be true that the atonement was made for every man when the Bible directly denies it?

[Dr.3D]

But, speaking about the idea in the original post, how can it be true that the atonement was made for every man when the Bible directly denies it?

Why worry about it since there is nothing that can be done to change it. People believe lots of things.

[Influenza]

Where in any of those verses does it suggest that the atonement was made for every man?

Consider the possibility that the Scriptures are consistent, and you are just reading incorrectly. Maybe reading it with your preconceived notions rather than letting it speak.

Do you even know how to read?

For the grace of god has appeared, bringing salvation for ALL PEOPLE.
Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.

Even the worst sinner is saved by Jesus, what does that imply about the lesser sinners? inb4 you claim there is no distinction between sins

[heavenlyboy34]

Why do people believe in monergism when the Bible teaches synergism? (Ephesians 2, I Corinthians 3, throughout the Gospels, etc) Paul even uses the word “synergoi” in I Corinthians, which is translated as “fellow workers”.

[pcosmar]

Why are the simple truths twisted into unrecognizable error?

USUALLY TO HIDE A GREATER TRUTH

Often to support other bent religious teachings.

[heavenlyboy34]

Why are the simple truths twisted into unrecognizable error?

USUALLY TO HIDE A GREATER TRUTH

Often to support other bent religious teachings.

Pretty much. Monergists also use Matthew 26:28 to "prove" limited atonement, but the Greek uses a definite article "the many"(i.e. "the multitudes"), not an indefinite article "many"-as monergists want us to believe to make their case. (as "many" implies a limited number)

[Sola_Fide]

Why do people believe in monergism when the Bible teaches synergism? (Ephesians 2, I Corinthians 3, throughout the Gospels, etc) Paul even uses the word “synergoi” in I Corinthians, which is translated as “fellow workers”.

Right, Paul used the word synergy in a statement that had nothing to do with salvation at all.

[Sola_Fide]

Do you even know how to read?

For the grace of god has appeared, bringing salvation for ALL PEOPLE.
Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst.

Even the worst sinner is saved by Jesus, what does that imply about the lesser sinners? inb4 you claim there is no distinction between sins

No, you don't know how to read or understand, because you aren't a student of the Bible and don't know how the apostles used the word 'all'.

Grace has appeared to 'all' people...meaning not just Jews, but also Gentiles, all the people and not just the Jews.

It does not mean that grace has appeared to every single man.

These are the things that uneducated and frankly, non Christian people, read in to the text because they don't understand the Bible.

[heavenlyboy34]

Right, Paul used the word synergy in a statement that had nothing to do with salvation at all.

The Orthodox and correct teaching of Synergism is about working together as a Church community with God. That passage illustrates this. See also 2 Corinthians 6:1-13, Phillipians 2:12-13, etc.

[Sonny Tufts]

Consider the possibility that the Scriptures are consistent, and you are just reading incorrectly. Maybe reading it with your preconceived notions rather than letting it speak.

Consider the possibility that the Scriptures were written by different men at different times and that you are just rationalizing their inconsistencies. Maybe reading them with your preconceived notion that they are the inerrant Word of God whose interpretations need to be twisted to eliminate the contradictions rather than letting their inconsistencies speak for themselves.

[Influenza]

No, you don't know how to read or understand, because you aren't a student of the Bible and don't know how the apostles used the word 'all'.

Grace has appeared to 'all' people...meaning not just Jews, but also Gentiles, all the people and not just the Jews.

It does not mean that grace has appeared to every single man.

These are the things that uneducated and frankly, non Christian people, read in to the text because they don't understand the Bible.

Lol you just make unfalsifiable claims, it's impossible argue with someone who will never give an inch even when the Bible says the exact thing you are claiming it doesn't.

[phill4paul]

Where's the "peace through religion" when you tell others that their beliefs are lies. That is not "peace." It is the opposite. And it really does not have a place on these forums.

[Sola_Fide]

Where's the "peace through religion" when you tell others that their beliefs are lies. That is not "peace." It is the opposite. And it really does not have a place on these forums.

Where is the peace through politics when you call Republicans statists? We shouldn't be able to do that here too, right?

Or is truth only applicable to everything else but religion? And if that's the case, why would you be so unbelievably disrespectful to religious people so as to relegate them to using standards that can't apply in truth?

[phill4paul]

Where is the peace through politics when you call Republicans statists? We shouldn't be able to do that here too, right?

Or is truth only applicable to everything else but religion? And if that's the case, why would you be so unbelievably disrespectful to religious people so as to relegate them to using standards that can't apply in truth?

Please link me to the "Peace Through Politics" forum. It doesn't exist. It was created that way for a purpose. Not by me. By the originators.

Hymn and haw all you want. You know it to be true.

Yet, you persist.

[Sola_Fide]

Please link me to the "Peace Through Politics" forum. It doesn't exist. It was created that way for a purpose. Not by me. By the originators.

Hymn and haw all you want. You know it to be true.

Yet, you persist.

So you are saying standards of logic and truth don't apply to us religious idiots? How utterly offensive. No religious person should accept that slap in the face.

The truth is, logic and reason apply in these debates, because God is logical, and imposes His standards of logic on men.

[phill4paul]

So you are saying standards of logic and truth don't apply to us religious idiots? How utterly offensive. No religious person should accept that slap in the face.

The truth is, logic and reason apply in these debates, because God is logical, and imposes His standards of logic on men.

Go ahead and be offended ya special snowflake. Start your own site if you have problems with it. Several have had the integrity to do so. I doubt many will follow you there. But, you never know.

[Sola_Fide]

Go ahead and be offended ya special snowflake. Start your own site if you have problems with it. Several have had the integrity to do so. I doubt many will follow you there. But, you never know.

I'm not offended by anything I get called here....and I've been called every name in the book. But your statements are offensive to logic and reason itself.

If you think that you can apply the standards of reason to debunk religion, then don't be a hypocrite and deny religious people the right to use it to defend it or argue against other religious viewpoints with it.

[pcosmar]

And I am glad there are 7 Churches, and Angels to guide them.

Humans are too diverse and the curse of Babel persists.

[Dr.3D]

So you are saying standards of logic and truth don't apply to us religious idiots? How utterly offensive. No religious person should accept that slap in the face.

The truth is, logic and reason apply in these debates, because God is logical, and imposes His standards of logic on men.

A Christian would turn the other cheek.

[bunklocoempire]

Where's the "peace through religion" when you tell others that their beliefs are lies. That is not "peace." It is the opposite. And it really does not have a place on these forums.

Personal examples of PTR is difficult to relate to others. I know I gotta practice it.

"Here is why I have peace... here is how me having peace helps those around me." Nope, don't see too much of that.

I know I gotta practice it more.

[phill4paul]

Personal examples of PTR is difficult to relate to others. I know I gotta practice it.

"Here is why I have peace... here is how me having peace helps those around me." Nope, don't see too much of that.

I know I gotta practice it more.

Amen.

[phill4paul]

I'm not offended by anything I get called here....and I've been called every name in the book. But your statements are offensive to logic and reason itself.

If you think that you can apply the standards of reason to debunk religion, then don't be a hypocrite and deny religious people the right to use it to defend it or argue against other religious viewpoints with it.

Despite pleas for you to find commonality within religion to further political goals of liberty instead of divisiveness you will do the opposite. It's all you are capable of. Or simply that which you chose to do.

[Sola_Fide]

Despite pleas for you to find commonality within religion to further political goals of liberty instead of divisiveness you will do the opposite. It's all you are capable of. Or simply that which you chose to do.

Really, I find religion and politics separate. Unlike some, I don't view Christianity as a political blueprint. I do find the principals of liberty in the moral law of God (in fact, it's the only ethical defense of property that can be had). But beyond that, I don't view Christianity as a political program. I feel the same way the apostles did, which is they just wanted be left alone to live peaceable lives. The best way to do that is with political and social liberty.

[Sola_Fide]

Consider the possibility that the Scriptures were written by different men at different times and that you are just rationalizing their inconsistencies. Maybe reading them with your preconceived notion that they are the inerrant Word of God whose interpretations need to be twisted to eliminate the contradictions rather than letting their inconsistencies speak for themselves.

Consider the possibility that the Bible is God's own Word, and since He is the Truth itself, these seeming inconsistencies can be reconciled with logic and reason.

Even your appeal to logical consistency is a denial of atheism, because atheism cannot sustain a view of rationality itself. You borrow from the Christian worldview in order to attempt to argue against it.

[Sonny Tufts]

Even your appeal to logical consistency is a denial of atheism, because atheism cannot sustain a view of rationality itself. You borrow from the Christian worldview in order to attempt to argue against it.

Nonsense. Rationality and logic predate Christianity by centuries. Try reading Aristotle's Prior Analytics and Posterior Analytics.

[Sola_Fide]

Nonsense. Rationality and logic predate Christianity by centuries. Try reading Aristotle's Prior Analytics and Posterior Analytics.

Right. You and Aristotle use the breath that God gives you, and use the standards of logic that God imposes on His creation, in order to attempt to argue against Him.